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Dublin Bus - 75 & 84 changes and new route for Bray?

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  • 01-03-2017 9:14pm
    #1
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,351 ✭✭✭


    I read some information from another forum site that changes will be made to some Dublin Bus routes in South Dublin & North Wicklow.

    Dublin Bus will attempt to make some apparent changes to the running time of the 75 in the next few months.

    There are changes also earmarked for the 84 with a new route option from Newcastle to UCD via Nutley Lane being talked about.

    A local paper in North Wicklow has mentioned a new local bus route for Bray which will be subsidized by the NTA but I can't find a link to the newspaper article at present. It may not be run by Dublin Bus. It could be run by a different operator.

    I know some of these details sound very vague at the moment. I am hoping that some more information will come through on this because it does sound like that these new changes by Dublin Bus are badly needed for these routes.

    Any more info on this from other posters would be very helpful.


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    #2
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    Dublin Bus will attempt to make some apparent changes to the running time of the 75 in the next few months.

    The running time or the frequency? If the running time, how can they do this without crashing red traffic lights?


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    #3
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Would it not make more sense to run the odd 145 to Newcastle? say 1 in 3? or even 1 in 6?


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    #4
    WomanSkirtFan8
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭WomanSkirtFan8


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    I read some information from another forum site that changes will be made to some Dublin Bus routes in South Dublin & North Wicklow.

    Dublin Bus will attempt to make some apparent changes to the running time of the 75 in the next few months.

    There are changes also earmarked for the 84 with a new route option from Newcastle to UCD via Nutley Lane being talked about.

    A local paper in North Wicklow has mentioned a new local bus route for Bray which will be subsidized by the NTA but I can't find a link to the newspaper article at present. It may not be run by Dublin Bus. It could be run by a different operator.

    I know some of these details sound very vague at the moment. I am hoping that some more information will come through on this because it does sound like that these new changes by Dublin Bus are badly needed for these routes.

    Any more info on this from other posters would be very helpful.


    Very interesting. I could deffinately foreseen the 84A possibly going from Newcastle to UCD via nutley lane alright.

    Personally, I'd prefer the 84 to go back to the city centre again as that to me, makes a lot more sense in the long run. Plus, a driver on the 84 did say mention to me a while back, that a possible return of the 84 to the city centre was being talked about but we'll have to wait and see.

    "A local paper in North Wicklow has mentioned a new local bus route for Bray which will be subsidized by the NTA"

    Think that was an article in the Bray People about a week or so ago. Haven't got it to hand but think i saw it there.:cool:


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    #5
    liger
    Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭liger


    Two orbital routes that are up for tender. How can companies make proper tenders for routes if the NTA constantly changes the routes, millage and amount of scheduled runs. So strange.


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    #6
    WomanSkirtFan8
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭WomanSkirtFan8


    liger wrote: »
    Two orbital routes that are up for tender. How can companies make proper tenders for routes if the NTA constantly changes the routes, millage and amount of scheduled runs. So strange.
    :cool:

    Route 184 is the one up for tender. Route 84 is not AFAIK.:)


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    #7
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    coylemj wrote: »
    The running time or the frequency? If the running time, how can they do this without crashing red traffic lights?

    Running time would change with major route revisions.


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    #8
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Running time would change with major route revisions.

    It really needs it, the 75 sure likes to meander!


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    #9
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Giblet wrote: »
    It really needs it, the 75 sure likes to meander!

    I don't know - loadings seem to be consistently good for the route.


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    #10
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,821 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »
    Personally, I'd prefer the 84 to go back to the city centre again as that to me, makes a lot more sense in the long run.

    why? To provide Kilcoole with a direct link off-peak to the City Centre? The 84X runs on-peak, Greystones is directly connected by DART and Bray and everywhere else along the N11 has the 145.

    They should have stuck to their original plan of running the 84 to Cherrywood Luas and back all day as it would have increased the frequency.


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    #11
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Giblet wrote: »
    It really needs it, the 75 sure likes to meander!

    I don't know - loadings seem to be consistently good for the route.
    Loadings are good but speed could be much much better. It can take 2.5 hours from terminus to terminus at rush hour.


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    #12
    WomanSkirtFan8
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭WomanSkirtFan8


    loyatemu wrote: »
    why? To provide Kilcoole with a direct link off-peak to the City Centre? The 84X runs on-peak, Greystones is directly connected by DART and Bray and everywhere else along the N11 has the 145.

    They should have stuck to their original plan of running the 84 to Cherrywood Luas and back all day as it would have increased the frequency.

    "why? To provide Kilcoole with a direct link off-peak to the City Centre?"

    You forgot about Newcastle and Greystones as well. That was pretty much always the case pre the 2008 recession and it never seemed to cause any major issues at the time.
    I've live on the 84 my whole life so i know only too well what i'm talking about.
    The 145 is an excellent service (no denying that). Am on it quite regularly (usually on a sunday as i have to meet friends in town) so i wouldn't fault it in any way.

    Greystones currently has a rapidly expanding population with the building of the greystones marina housing development on the north shore plus the new secondary school at Templecarrig in Blacklion.

    An 84 return to the city centre (possibly via Blackrock, The RDS and Ballsbridge) wouldn't be a bad thing. There are students in Greystones, Kilcoole and Newcastle who would benefit from an 84 back to the city again, especially on weekends.

    Don't get me wrong, the 84X is a great service but as you've said it IS only on-peak. The DART is also an excellent service too but it is the ONLY regular link between Greystones and the city centre. That to me doesn't sound right.

    We'l have to wait and see what DB come up with.;)


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    #13
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Loadings are good but speed could be much much better. It can take 2.5 hours from terminus to terminus at rush hour.

    Of course, but you have to be careful about route changes or reductions in route changes for a bus that seems consistently busy across rush hour runnings. Remember, the route is not primarily designed as a point to point service, and in my experience you would have very few going terminus to terminus.

    To be clear, I'm not arguing that the 75 isn't a frustrating route due to the combination of its length and ~half hour frequency. But despite those issues, plenty of people do use it regularly.


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    #14
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Of course, but you have to be careful about route changes or reductions in route changes for a bus that seems consistently busy across rush hour runnings. Remember, the route is not primarily designed as a point to point service, and in my experience you would have very few going terminus to terminus.

    To be clear, I'm not arguing that the 75 isn't a frustrating route due to the combination of its length and ~half hour frequency. But despite those issues, plenty of people do use it regularly.

    True. I live along the route and I'm not going to the terminus. It's faster for me to get a bus to the luas and luas to work rather than get a 75. More reliable too.


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    #15
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »
    "why? To provide Kilcoole with a direct link off-peak to the City Centre?"

    You forgot about Newcastle and Greystones as well. That was pretty much always the case pre the 2008 recession and it never seemed to cause any major issues at the time.
    I've live on the 84 my whole life so i know only too well what i'm talking about.
    The 145 is an excellent service (no denying that). Am on it quite regularly (usually on a sunday as i have to meet friends in town) so i wouldn't fault it in any way.

    Greystones currently has a rapidly expanding population with the building of the greystones marina housing development on the north shore plus the new secondary school at Templecarrig in Blacklion.

    An 84 return to the city centre (possibly via Blackrock, The RDS and Ballsbridge) wouldn't be a bad thing. There are students in Greystones, Kilcoole and Newcastle who would benefit from an 84 back to the city again, especially on weekends.

    Don't get me wrong, the 84X is a great service but as you've said it IS only on-peak. The DART is also an excellent service too but it is the ONLY regular link between Greystones and the city centre. That to me doesn't sound right.

    We'l have to wait and see what DB come up with.;)

    Prpbably the greatest single problem ANY alteration of these services faces is Traffic Management in,and around thei potential termini.

    The Park,Cabinteely,Cornelscourt,Stillorgan,The Beacon and Dundrum Centre all represent totally viable locations for Bus Termini or Interconnection Hubs,yet none have even the most basic facilities for Bus Operations installed...Not a single mm is allocated to getting Public Transport In & Out ahead of the Motoring Car.

    It is not rocket science,yet it remains constantly avoided in virtually ALL major retail developments in the GDA....Hard to fathom why ?

    Or,will it always have to entail a trip "out Forren" to experience simple,workable commonsense solutions to these problems ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #16
    xper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭xper


    If the 84 timetable/route is being revisited can we please have

    a) the buses actually connecting to the Luas at Bride's Glen as originally intended/advertised (now that a bus stop has been built there for the 7 and 111) and not dumping passengers a wind-swept 500m away

    b) the driver timetable and the published public timetable actually matching up and do away with the remaining customer-hostile waits at Bray DART


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    #17
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Prpbably the greatest single problem ANY alteration of these services faces is Traffic Management in,and around thei potential termini.

    In this particular instance, the traffic management and by extension, the amount of cars on the roads is a by-product of the abysmal efforts by the relevant public transportation bodies in serving them.

    Having said that, Veolia Transport and First Group are doing a fantastic job of serving their respective catchments. It's no coincidence that both are private companies.

    In stark contrast, the likes of the 75, 114, 111 and 17 are trying to cram as many destinations into one route as possible. While each connecting point along these routes is justified, the excessive meandering as well as stops in quick succession make each route unbearably slow especially, the 75 and 111. Understandably, people will be more likely to opt for the car.

    The issue with the 84 is that it is nowhere near frequent enough. For a good portion of its alignment it is taking a very direct route with the exception of detours to Bray Station and Cherrywood.
    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The Park, Cabinteely, Cornelscourt, Stillorgan, The Beacon and Dundrum Centre all represent totally viable locations for Bus Termini or Interconnection Hubs,yet none have even the most basic facilities for Bus Operations installed...Not a single mm is allocated to getting Public Transport In & Out ahead of the Motoring Car.

    It would be interesting to see what would happen if cameras with number plate recognition software were to be installed at the locations you mention at the start of the above paragraph. With 6 locations, you could have 4 cameras in each to cover the traffic coming from the North, South, West and East. The cameras would be operational for a trial period initially where data from the number plate recognition would be fed into and out of the RSA and other relevant databases.

    The objective here would be to trace travel patterns to gain an idea of the where visitors to these locations are originating and how often. From this point on-wards, the data gathered would be used by public transportation bodies such as Dublin Bus, Dublin Coach and First Group to implement routes where they are lacking. Startup or smaller operators would also be very welcome to part-take in this exercise where the larger operators are lacking will-power or are skeptical of specific route permutations. A lot of you guys might say that this is easier said than done. However, if we are to increase public transportation usage to these locations, we need a much deeper analysis to form a benchmark for public transport provision.
    AlekSmart wrote: »
    It is not rocket science,yet it remains constantly avoided in virtually ALL major retail developments in the GDA....Hard to fathom why ?

    I imagine that the reason behind much of the madness in getting to and from locations be it retail, commercial, industrial or residential is down to a breakdown of communication at the planning stage. If it were up to me, I would have local councils, public transportation bodies and the property developers themselves formulate how people will get to and from the development before it even gets off the ground. As a rule of thumb for example, likely travel patterns would have to be anticipated within a 5 to 10 mile radius of the development if it was planned to be a major retail, industrial or commercial center.
    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Or,will it always have to entail a trip "out Forren" to experience simple,workable commonsense solutions to these problems ?

    My only hope in this case would be to learn from the mistakes of the past.


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