Ladbrokes incorrect rule 4

keng66

Does anyone have a customer complaints e-mail address for Ladbrokes, can't find one on the web and spent 25 mins on the phone yesterday, can't do it again as felt I was hitting my head of a brick wall
Quick story, placed a bet on Mossgo in 2.00 at Lingfield yesterday, won at 3/1.
A horse called Powerful Wind w/d at 12/1, rule 4 of 5p. It took 8 mins to declare the result(still not showing Arena racing-no commentary) waited another 9 mins for time lock to come off. The staff had deducted 15p in the pound, queried it, she showed me her screen which had 2 rule 4 messages on it, one for 10p, another for 5p. Had to get back to work, rang their customer care and was told it should have only been 10p because the horse was 8/1 in their books. I tried to explain that 12/1 was the industry price and that they couldn't just declare their own price. Went back to the shop at lunchtime and got back 5% but have still been deducted 10p in the pound.

Has this happened to anybody else, the shop involved was in Dublin

emeldc

How can they argue with the official result. Having said that I've checked two results sites and they don't mention rule 4. Did you take a board price. Did the market change after the horse was withdrawn. What price was it with your bookmaker when it was withdrawn. Jeez, it's 30 years since I worked in a smokey bookies. It's all coming back to me now

keng66

No new market, Racing Post, The Sun and Skysports website all have Rule 4 of 5p. I think the problem was that they didn't pay the fee to Arena Racing and can't show their races, someone in their office wasn't keeping their prices up to date(probably some in a back office watching ATR). The person I spoke to yesterday just couldn't grasp the fact that it was an industry price, he even told me he had checked the Racing Post site and could see it had 5p but their traders had told him the Ladbrokes price was 8/1 and therefore it was 10P.
I could feel the vain sticking out on my forehead as I was talking to him:)

emeldc

Yea, doesn't sound right, they need to explain themselves.

sibersha

The rule 4 is reflective of the price of the withdrawn horse at time your bet was placed.

Different rule 4's with different bookies depending on their early price on the withdrawn horse is industry standard.

Copper_pipe

http://helpcentre.ladbrokes.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/241/~/rule-4-deductions

keng66

The rule 4 has to be the same for every bookmaker, this was a live market, not an early price which I understand could be different in other bookies, the horse was w/d because it bolted on the way to the start

sibersha

I stand corrected, the above link from Ladbrokes states "The exact amount taken out of your winnings is based on the last price of the withdrawn selection, in that market, at the time it is withdrawn from the race. This is because the price equates to its chances of winnings. Therefore the shorter its price, the bigger its chance of winning and the larger the Rule 4 deduction is."

I assume Ladbrokes will say the last price in the early price market was 8/1 (10p rule 4) and 12/1 (5p rule 4) in the board/show price market. As your bet was placed on the EP market then you are deducted the 10p rule 4.

Harry Angstrom

sibersha wrote: »

I stand corrected, the above link from Ladbrokes states "The exact amount taken out of your winnings is based on the last price of the withdrawn selection, in that market, at the time it is withdrawn from the race. This is because the price equates to its chances of winnings. Therefore the shorter its price, the bigger its chance of winning and the larger the Rule 4 deduction is."

I assume Ladbrokes will say the last price in the early price market was 8/1 (10p rule 4) and 12/1 (5p rule 4) in the board/show price market. As your bet was placed on the EP market then you are deducted the 10p rule 4.

What has the early price got to do with it? Rule 4 is based on the withdrawn horse's price at the time he's called a non-runner. Whether the OP took an early price on his selection is neither here nor there.

emeldc

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

What has the early price got to do with it? Rule 4 is based on the withdrawn horse's price at the time he's called a non-runner. Whether the OP took an early price on his selection is neither here nor there.

As far as I remember early morning prices are subject to rule4. Anti-post is not.

Harry Angstrom

emeldc wrote: »

As far as I remember early morning prices are subject to rule4. Anti-post is not.

Where was ante-post mentioned? Of course early morning prices are subject to Rule 4.

sibersha

keng66 wrote: »

No new market, Racing Post, The Sun and Skysports website all have Rule 4 of 5p. I think the problem was that they didn't pay the fee to Arena Racing and can't show their races, someone in their office wasn't keeping their prices up to date(probably some in a back office watching ATR). The person I spoke to yesterday just couldn't grasp the fact that it was an industry price, he even told me he had checked the Racing Post site and could see it had 5p but their traders had told him the Ladbrokes price was 8/1 and therefore it was 10P.
I could feel the vain sticking out on my forehead as I was talking to him:)

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

What has the early price got to do with it? Rule 4 is based on the withdrawn horse's price at the time he's called a non-runner. Whether the OP took an early price on his selection is neither here nor there.

Early price market considered separate to board price markets with some books. Have seen it before with other operators - last price in early price book = rule 4 deduction.

If last price was 20/1 in 'early price book' then no rule 4 would be applied.

Assume that is the line Ladbrokes will toe.

Harry Angstrom

sibersha wrote: »

Early price market considered separate to board price markets with some books. Have seen it before with other operators - last price in early price book = rule 4 deduction.

If last price was 20/1 in 'early price book' then no rule 4 would be applied.

Assume that is the line Ladbrokes will toe.

On the flip side of that, I'd find it difficult to think that if Ladbrokes went 6/1 about a horse in the early price market who's subsequently withdrawn before the race with an SP of 4/1, that they'd apply 10p in the pound rather than 20p in the pound deduction to winning bets.

emeldc

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Where was ante-post mentioned? Of course early morning prices are subject to Rule 4.

Sorry, read your post wrong. I'm a long time away from all this sh1t TG

sibersha

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

On the flip side of that, I'd find it difficult to think that if Ladbrokes went 6/1 about a horse in the early price market who's subsequently withdrawn before the race with an SP of 4/1, that they'd apply 10p in the pound rather than 20p in the pound deduction to winning bets.

Had the last early price available been 6/1 then you would indeed get a 10p rule 4.

keng66

Just to clarify, there was no early price or reformed market, this is what was in the Racing Post

"Powerful Wind (taken down early and bolted to post, withdrawn (vet's advice)); R4: Powerful Dream was withdrawn. Price at time of withdrawal 12-1. Rule 4 applies to all bets - deduction 5p in the pound.; "

Harry Angstrom

keng66 wrote: »

Just to clarify, there was no early price or reformed market, this is what was in the Racing Post

"Powerful Wind (taken down early and bolted to post, withdrawn (vet's advice)); R4: Powerful Dream was withdrawn. Price at time of withdrawal 12-1. Rule 4 applies to all bets - deduction 5p in the pound.; "

Seems like they're making up their own rules as they go along.

keng66

I think the problem is that someone in their back office made a mistake in putting a rule 4 of 10p, and I haven't been able to speak to someone that understands how the industry price is supposed to work.
Keep thinking of that Little Britton sketch "Computer says No"

byronbay2

keng66 wrote: »

I think the problem is that someone in their back office made a mistake in putting a rule 4 of 10p, and I haven't been able to speak to someone that understands how the industry price is supposed to work.
Keep thinking of that Little Britton sketch "Computer says No"

Ladbrokes are divils for making mistakes, invariably at YOUR expense!!