Moving from 250cc to 1000cc

abdulabduler

I have a ninja 250r for over 2 years now and I feel it's time to move up, most of the beauties are 1000cc. Thinking of gsxr 1000, s1000rr or the older r1. I have never ridden a 600cc bike before so is going straight to 1000cc a good idea? My commute involves half motorway and half city approximately 30km and I am early 20s. How difficult is keeping a 1000cc supersport at 50-60 km/h a lot of the time?

stewygriffin

abdulabduler wrote: »

I have a ninja 250r for over 2 years now and I feel it's time to move up, most of the beauties are 1000cc. Thinking of gsxr 1000, s1000rr or the older r1. I have never ridden a 600cc bike before so is going straight to 1000cc a good idea? My commute involves half motorway and half city approximately 30km and I am early 20s. How difficult is keeping a 1000cc supersport at 50-60 km/h a lot of the time?

1st gear on my S1000rr will do allmost 80mph.

2nd gear and cruise at around 40mph.
3rd gear and low revs will see you do about 50-55mph and no real drama.

An S1000rr is a lot of machine to handle when comming from a 250.
Same with an R1

I changed the chain and gearing on the R1 and S1000rr to a 520 setup and went with a tooth more on the rear sprockets.


A litre superbike would be a waste of money and machine for your type of commute.

CJhaughey

I wouldn't go straight to a litrebike, from a 250.
You need to progress but IMHO a modern sportsbike of 5-600cc is plenty for a stepping stone they provide more than ample performance for the average rider and you can work on your technique while you get used to the increased performance.
One other thing to remember is that Insurance may be costly at your age,if you decide to move then get some quotes first.

BKtje

Going to go against the grain here. I went from a ninja 300 to z1000sx. Took a little bit of getting used to the weight more so than the power but I'm not someone who goes crazy (until I know the bike at least).

For commuting I doubt you'd need that power but that's up to you.

listermint

Have you even got a full license for this change?

Lumen

CJhaughey wrote: »

IMHO a modern sportsbike of 5-600cc is plenty for a stepping stone they provide more than ample performance for the average rider and you can work on your technique while you get used to the increased performance.

Aren't they a bit gutless on the road?

The appeal of a litre sportsbike is that you can cruise at low rpm but still have decent shove on demand without changing down.

I say this from total ignorance.

listermint

Lumen wrote: »

Aren't they a bit gutless on the road?

The appeal of a litre sportsbike is that you can cruise at low rpm but still have decent shove on demand without changing down.

I say this from total ignorance.

600 gutless?

Haven't seen that description.


Gutless is a tiny engine in a heavy car.

Not a 600 cc on a light motorcycle.

bladespin

Lumen wrote: »

Aren't they a bit gutless on the road?

The appeal of a litre sportsbike is that you can cruise at low rpm but still have decent shove on demand without changing down.

I say this from total ignorance.

Yer wha?????

Try one, that is all. There is a difference of course but not that much.

jimgoose

Lumen wrote: »

Aren't they a bit gutless on the road?

The appeal of a litre sportsbike is that you can cruise at low rpm but still have decent shove on demand without changing down.

I say this from total ignorance.

A 600 goes like a rocket. A litre supersports goes like a Cylon basestar doing an FTL jump.

bladespin

jimgoose wrote: »

A 600 goes like a rocket. A litre supersports goes like a Cylon basestar doing an FTL jump.

0-60 on an 2005 R1 about 3 secs, 0-60 on a 2011 R6 3.1 secs :eek:

Newer but still.

jimgoose

bladespin wrote: »

0-60 on an 2005 R1 about 3 secs, 0-60 on a 2011 R6 3.1 secs :eek:

Newer but still.

That's the thing. You're nearly in F1 country on both, and for the money they cost!! :pac:

bladespin

jimgoose wrote: »

That's the thing. You're nearly in F1 country on both, and for the money they cost!! :pac:

My old bus is listed at 3.0 as well :cool:

stewygriffin

Lumen wrote: »

Aren't they a bit gutless on the road?

The appeal of a litre sportsbike is that you can cruise at low rpm but still have decent shove on demand without changing down.

I say this from total ignorance.

Gear shifting at the right revs,downshifting at the right revs,suspension setup and riding skill.You will soon see they aint gutless machines.
And road condition aswell.

stewygriffin

Anyway,it looks like we wont be hearing back from the OP.:pac:

Lumen

bladespin wrote: »

Yer wha????? Try one, that is all. There is a difference of course but not that much.

jimgoose wrote: »

A 600 goes like a rocket. A litre supersports goes like a Cylon basestar doing an FTL jump.

bladespin wrote: »

0-60 on an 2005 R1 about 3 secs, 0-60 on a 2011 R6 3.1 secs :eek:

Newer but still.

stewygriffin wrote: »

Gear shifting at the right revs,downshifting at the right revs,suspension setup and riding skill.You will soon see they aint gutless machines.
And road condition aswell.

I know a 600 sports bike has loads of power at the right revs, but it makes that power at higher revs than the same capacity motor tuned for torque.

In traffic on my naked 700 I'm cruising along at say 56kph in 3rd gear with 4k rpm and 30bhp on tap, which is just enough for a quick squirt if I need to move up.

On an R6 at the same speed I'd be doing 4500rpm in 3rd and have 22bhp, or 5400rpm in 2nd and have about 28bhp.

That's what I mean by "gutless". I'd love a sports bike but not for constant throttle in slow traffic.

And yes, I should try one. :pac:

bladespin

Lumen wrote: »

On an R6 at the same speed I'd be doing 4500rpm in 3rd and have 22bhp, or 5400rpm in 2nd and have about 28bhp.

That's what I mean by "gutless". I'd love a sports bike but not for constant throttle in slow traffic.

And yes, I should try one. :pac:

Different styles tbh, doubt most riders would be looking at a 4500 rpm on a 6 tbh, stir the box and wake the beast!


BTW at 45 in 3rd on a R6, you're using 22 bhp and have about 100 available - there's a massive difference.

stewygriffin

bladespin wrote: »

Different styles tbh, doubt most riders would be looking at a 4500 rpm on a 6 tbh, stir the box and wake the beast!


BTW at 45 in 3rd on a R6, you're using 22 bhp and have about 100 available - there's a massive difference.

Or in other words....keep her lit.:D

listermint

Lumen wrote: »

I know a 600 sports bike has loads of power at the right revs, but it makes that power at higher revs than the same capacity motor tuned for torque.

In traffic on my naked 700 I'm cruising along at say 56kph in 3rd gear with 4k rpm and 30bhp on tap, which is just enough for a quick squirt if I need to move up.

On an R6 at the same speed I'd be doing 4500rpm in 3rd and have 22bhp, or 5400rpm in 2nd and have about 28bhp.

That's what I mean by "gutless". I'd love a sports bike but not for constant throttle in slow traffic.

And yes, I should try one. :pac:

Ugggh.

Read up the term gutless. Because your original comment as you have proved is not accurate.

bladespin

stewygriffin wrote:

Or in other words....keep her lit.

Ooooh always

mamax

I wouldn't call any 600 bike gutless, even a bandit 600 can be way too fast for some if you wind it up but from riding many bikes over the past 25 years I prefer bigger cc's
I'd much rather take the blade out for a spin over anything smaller, I prefer the way a bigger bike feels effortless at say 100mph over the way a smaller bike feels at the same speed

Lumen

Is it really controversial to suggest that the character of a sportsbike engine is less suited to a motorway/city commute than an engine of similar capacity with less aggressive tuning, gearing and throttle response?

scarebus03

I recently started out on the direct IBT route and bought a '06 ER-6f 650cc. Great for town, goes like spit and on the open road at 6.5k rpm or thereabouts in 6th will hit the 80 mark (not very often though!). Low end torque is great for city. Shat myself for the 1st month on it but loving it now with the test in 3 weeks time. Was thinking of moving up to a Z1000sx after but would struggle in town methinks.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

I know a 600 sports bike has loads of power at the right revs, but it makes that power at higher revs than the same capacity motor tuned for torque.

In traffic on my naked 700 I'm cruising along at say 56kph in 3rd gear with 4k rpm and 30bhp on tap, which is just enough for a quick squirt if I need to move up.

On an R6 at the same speed I'd be doing 4500rpm in 3rd and have 22bhp, or 5400rpm in 2nd and have about 28bhp.

That's what I mean by "gutless". I'd love a sports bike but not for constant throttle in slow traffic.

And yes, I should try one. :pac:

On an 600 sports bike at 56 kmh youd be at about 4,500 in second gear. they will pull like madness from there esp once you get over 8k.

I know what you mean that your thinking that you need to ride the thing around at 10k revs to have enough power on tap but in reality bring that figure down to about 6k is when it starts pulling

bladespin

No, just wrong, most sports bikes are just as 'useable' as a commuter, they just have more if/when you want it.

Edit - the commuter style will feel a lot more comfortable in town, worth remembering of that's what the bike is for.

antiskeptic

abdulabduler wrote: »

I have a ninja 250r for over 2 years now and I feel it's time to move up, most of the beauties are 1000cc. Thinking of gsxr 1000, s1000rr or the older r1. I have never ridden a 600cc bike before so is going straight to 1000cc a good idea? My commute involves half motorway and half city approximately 30km and I am early 20s. How difficult is keeping a 1000cc supersport at 50-60 km/h a lot of the time?

I'd moved up and down in bike size over the years. For that kind of work a 600 was, I found, ideal. Powerful enough to be comfortable on motorways, nimble enough to be useful around town. I'd CBR 600's which all got nicked so settled on a Fazer 600 which was the absolutely perfect tool for the job. What point leaning on low bars in town for all those years...

After the 600 got tired I got a 1000cc version of the same bike. It came into it's on on motorways but was a 'mare around town compared to the 600. Just too heavy for nip and tuck work - which is a vital element in the daily commute.

Ultimately, that large an engine is really only going to give you a bit of ease on motorways - you can be lazier. You're never really going to be making daily use of all that potential. A 600 is a better all rounder for typical Irish non motorway roads in my view.

Kev.OC

Hey OP, I had a Ninja 250R for a year, took 4 years off, and a month ago picked up a VFR800.

Obviously there's no comparison when it comes to power. The VFR isn't exactly known for it's sporting prowess, but coming from a 250 it goes like a bat out of hell! I haven't ridden that many bikes, but I imagine going to a 600cc will be a big enough jump to tide you over for a while.

Biggest difference for me was the weight. I use the car for work (all motorway, cruise control FTW), so the bike is purely for spins. I know each to their own, but I'd really hate to be commuting through town on a regular basis on it. Admittedly part of that is that I'm rusty and my slow speed maneuvering leaves a lot to be desired. :pac:

TeaBagMania

For commuting id rather a cruiser or something with a more upright seating position. IMO a liter bike would get old fast

CJhaughey

TeaBagMania wrote: »

For commuting id rather a cruiser or something with a more upright seating position. IMO a liter bike would get old fast

Agreed, trail bikes work well for commuting. High seating position wide bars and narrow behind you.

Live65a846d0ee

CJhaughey wrote: »

Agreed, trail bikes work well for commuting. High seating position wide bars and narrow behind you.

How do they work in small street filtering? I like the ninja because it's small and can fit through really narrow gaps which is vital as some streets I ride through are small and filled with cars from 8am and 3pm

bladespin

TeaBagMania wrote:

For commuting id rather a cruiser or something with a more upright seating position. IMO a liter bike would get old fast

Aren't many cruisers well above the 1000cc mark? There's nothing that dictates a litre bike has to be 'sports'

Live65a846d0ee

Kev.OC wrote: »

Hey OP, I had a Ninja 250R for a year, took 4 years off, and a month ago picked up a VFR800.

Obviously there's no comparison when it comes to power. The VFR isn't exactly known for it's sporting prowess, but coming from a 250 it goes like a bat out of hell! I haven't ridden that many bikes, but I imagine going to a 600cc will be a big enough jump to tide you over for a while.

Biggest difference for me was the weight. I use the car for work (all motorway, cruise control FTW), so the bike is purely for spins. I know each to their own, but I'd really hate to be commuting through town on a regular basis on it. Admittedly part of that is that I'm rusty and my slow speed maneuvering leaves a lot to be desired. :pac:

Yes, however I am more interested in sport bikes which are not that different from my ninja in terms of weight, and when you apply all weight reduction methods the difference is even less 20, max 30kg

Live65a846d0ee

stewygriffin wrote: »

1st gear on my S1000rr will do allmost 80mph.

2nd gear and cruise at around 40mph.
3rd gear and low revs will see you do about 50-55mph and no real drama.

An S1000rr is a lot of machine to handle when comming from a 250.
Same with an R1

I changed the chain and gearing on the R1 and S1000rr to a 520 setup and went with a tooth more on the rear sprockets.


A litre superbike would be a waste of money and machine for your type of commute.

I forgot to mention that it's 30km each way. And I have to use the bike for 6 days per week. 5 days 30km journey each way, then 2(same day) days 50km journey each way. The thing about the 250r is that it has to rev up to almost redline to get to any significant speed on the motorway. It's perfectly fine for city but as soon as you get out, you see that it has to work to keep up the speed. So anyone recommend a 600cc or 1000cc bike? I didn't see much choice in terms of 600cc bikes, seems the most suitable would be cbr600 or gsxr600. Size is very important for me as I have to filter a lot in small streets. I am more interested in sports bikes for now. Maybe I will get a cruiser or touring at a later date but for now it is essential for the bike to be small enough so I don't get stuck behind cars. My commute is in Dublin.

Live65a846d0ee

stewygriffin wrote: »

1st gear on my S1000rr will do allmost 80mph.

2nd gear and cruise at around 40mph.
3rd gear and low revs will see you do about 50-55mph and no real drama.

An S1000rr is a lot of machine to handle when comming from a 250.
Same with an R1

I changed the chain and gearing on the R1 and S1000rr to a 520 setup and went with a tooth more on the rear sprockets.


A litre superbike would be a waste of money and machine for your type of commute.

Stewygriffin, everywhere I read and watched videos I have heard that s1000rr is a very manageable bike, people say that it does not feel like a 1000cc until you want to. I have seen a YouTube called BaronVonGrumble from UK riding superbikes like the BMW, gsxr1000 and r1

blade1

A cbr600f would do you no problem at all.
Crazy going from a 250 to 1000 sportsbike imo.
Also,you say an S1000rr only feels like a 1000 when you want it to.
Of course you'll want it to, and that's when your experience will leave you down.

stewygriffin

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

Stewygriffin, everywhere I read and watched videos I have heard that s1000rr is a very manageable bike, people say that it does not feel like a 1000cc until you want to. I have seen a YouTube called BaronVonGrumble from UK riding superbikes like the BMW, gsxr1000 and r1

Its a comfy bike to ride but it takes a bit of getting used to,especially if comming from something like a 250cc machine.

Thats a huge step to take.
Personally I would take it easy and go the 600 route 1st for 6 months to a year,then after that progress on to 1000cc.


I can tell you that my R1 takes a bit more manhandling than the S1000rr does.The R1 is a wider bike than the S1000rr and the riding position is a bit more racey on the r1 than the S1000rr.But I have rearsets to go on the S1000rr next and give a bit more aggressive riding stance.
I have the electronics backed right off on the S1000rr,as I like to feel what the bike is really doing underneath me

stewygriffin

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

Stewygriffin, everywhere I read and watched videos I have heard that s1000rr is a very manageable bike, people say that it does not feel like a 1000cc until you want to. I have seen a YouTube called BaronVonGrumble from UK riding superbikes like the BMW, gsxr1000 and r1

Are you the OP by any chance?

OP who got banned has a Ninja 250 and so do you,and you just joined today.Amazing eh.;)

Crafty devil you.:pac:

XsApollo

How tall are you?
If you are tall get a 1000cc bike.
If height isn't a cause for concern and
you can't choose between a 600cc or a 1000cc, get a 750 GSXR, you won't be disappointed.

If you are leaning towards the 600 for whatever reason, go for the 750 gsxr.
Pretty much the same size as the 600 but has the extra bit bit of power that you will be more than likely be itching for after a few months on the 600.

I've had 3 myself and I think I will go for another when I get back on again.

jimbev

XsApollo wrote: »

How tall are you?
If you are tall get a 1000cc bike.
If height isn't a cause for concern and
you can't choose between a 600cc or a 1000cc, get a 750 GSXR, you won't be disappointed.

If you are leaning towards the 600 for whatever reason, go for the 750 gsxr.
Pretty much the same size as the 600 but has the extra bit bit of power that you will be more than likely be itching for after a few months on the 600.

I've had 3 myself and I think I will go for another when I get back on again.

I totally agree with this the gsxr 750 really does give you best of both worlds

CJhaughey

Live65a846d0ee wrote: »

How do they work in small street filtering? I like the ninja because it's small and can fit through really narrow gaps which is vital as some streets I ride through are small and filled with cars from 8am and 3pm

In my experience they work really well although the bars are generally wider then a faired bike they are higher than mirrors etc, also the bikes are so narrow and light its easy to move them around plus they have great lock compared to sports bikes.
They are designed to be ridden around obstacles.

stewygriffin

XsApollo wrote: »

How tall are you?
If you are tall get a 1000cc bike.
If height isn't a cause for concern and
you can't choose between a 600cc or a 1000cc, get a 750 GSXR, you won't be disappointed.

If you are leaning towards the 600 for whatever reason, go for the 750 gsxr.
Pretty much the same size as the 600 but has the extra bit bit of power that you will be more than likely be itching for after a few months on the 600.

I've had 3 myself and I think I will go for another when I get back on again.

I dont agree with that.

Im 6 feet 1 inch tall and have long legs,I ride a Ducati 996 during the week,thats a slim and compact superbike,akin to an ApriliaRS 250 or Suzuki RGV 250 in size.Its alot smaller than todays modern superbikes.

I find it perfectly comfy to ride at speed and in town.
Its no more uncomfortable than the R1 or S1000rr.:)

Live65a846d0ee

Thanks all for the suggestions, I will get a 600 or 750 for now as the hp difference on the liter bikes compared to my current bike is enormous, like moving from a smart car to a bugatti.

galwaytt

XsApollo wrote: »

How tall are you?
If you are tall get a 1000cc bike.
If height isn't a cause for concern and
you can't choose between a 600cc or a 1000cc, get a 750 GSXR, you won't be disappointed.

If you are leaning towards the 600 for whatever reason, go for the 750 gsxr.
Pretty much the same size as the 600 but has the extra bit bit of power that you will be more than likely be itching for after a few months on the 600.

I've had 3 myself and I think I will go for another when I get back on again.

Sorry, there's no link between engine size and bike size.

Many 650s and 750's are the same as litre bikes. Several litre bikes are as small as 600s.

XsApollo

galwaytt wrote: »

Sorry, there's no link between engine size and bike size.

Many 650s and 750's are the same as litre bikes. Several litre bikes are as small as 600s.

The bikes he mentions in his first post are a gsxr 1000 or a s1000rr.
So is the Gsxr1000 the same size as the gsxr600.