When to start primary school

irish bloke

Hi All,

I have a 3 year old son who is 4 at the start April - He is illegible to start school in September.

The school we want will not accept him until next year due to high application.

The crèche/pre school he is in has told us he is super intelligent and could start now. They can't believe we are not sending him.

If we keep him in pre school for another year to get the school we want, are we holding him back? He acts like a 5 year old already and I fear sending him into babies in 18 months time could hamper him.

Thoughts appreciated.

Thanks.

Nekarsulm

I would wait a year. In our case we were tempted, like you, to send them at four and a quarter. Glad we didn't, as despite their advanced language skills etc at the start, they may well struggle in a couple of years. Also its better to be that bit bigger for several reasons. Being the smallest in the class is no fun in the rough and tumble of school life, very likely always last in sports, and ultimately, sitting the leaving cert / starting college a year younger than their peers. This is the time an extra yeasrs maturity really tells. (In my opinion)

irish bloke

Thanks for the reply.

I agree with you re size, rough and tumble sport and leaving cert, all very good points. It's just he's extremely intelligent (not saying that through a parents eyes) - Everyone says he so advanced.

I suppose it's 2 questions really.

1. Is 5 years 5 months old average to start school
2. Would I be holding him back in any way (mentally) if I don't send him this year

Additionally, All his pre school friends are going to school this year, all be it different schools so when they meet for after school in the crèche, he will be the only one not in "big" school

Nekarsulm

Hard to know,especially when he's meeting the old crowd every evening. If he's a good size, and confident of himself, then you could send him. Sounds like he will benefit from any after school clubs/classes that challenge him mentally. Something like drama/chess club/arts and crafts etc.
Some chreches are a bit "babyish" and all they offer is colouring in and plonked in front of a screen, and inclined to focus on younger ones letting the slightly older ones alone.
In fact, for those reasons above, its a pity more men don't work in crèches, as a bit of time with Meccano or similar wouldn't go amiss. Problem is, any man looking to work in a chreche would be viewed with considerable suspicion by mothers.
This isn't much help, I know.

mel.b

I'm a SLT and go into schools to support children. It's very easy in the Junior Infants class to pick out the young children (and I don't mean by their size). IMHO you're much better holding him back with regards to his social, emotional and academic skills. There is a lot of research coming out that says children do better when they are older when they first learn to read etc. Really, preschools shouldn't even be doing letters / jolly phonics etc. Preschool should be about developing play, interaction and social skills, not academics.

beechwood55

Will you be 100% guaranteed a place in the school that you want next year?

byhookorbycrook

There's no hard and fast answer. Making some very broad generalizations, boys can be more socially immature and it can be quite difficult for them to adjust to the bigger groups in primary classes. 5.2 certainly is no way too old for junior infants, it would be a good age for starting in my book. if he were mine (and I have quite a lot of experience of teaching exceptionally able children) I would keep him for the year.Yes, he might do well at 4.2 - but what if he doesn't?I have met plenty people who regret starting a child at 4 and never someone who regretted waiting until the child is 5 and I have been teaching quite a long time.

Any pre-school worth its salt should be able to keep him challenged for another year. Or you could send him to a naíonra to challenge him a little, if you feel the pre-school can't.

lazygal

I have a girl who's an end of May baby. I always knew we wouldn't send her until she was five. I know last year she'd have been academically fine for school but I was more concerned about her social and coping skills. Waiting the extra year was the right choice.
The preschool might have a waiting list and want to free up your son's place. Any service I know (and I have worked as a preschool Montessori teacher myself) would always propose waiting until as close to five, especially for boys. I would feel it is always better to be older in a class than on the younger side. I know children sent to school too soon and it can have long term impacts. There is no rush, they are in formal schooling long enough.

Lackey

This just might be something you have not thought of.
You will see it much later on where most of the kids have started school at five plus,
They may be on a different age sport team than their buddies (if they play sports)
What age do you want them going to discos at?
What age group would you like them to hang around with?
Going to concerts with?

With TY the vast majority in my area turn 18 during fifth year so you may have a 17 or even 16 year old (if they skip TY) getting invited to 18th's in niteclubs.
17 year olds up against 19 year olds in CAO points race, and having to pick college courses, plus a possible under 18 looking to go on the LC holiday with all their mates.
Just something else to consider, hope it helps.

lazygal

Oh definitely consider secondary school too-and the age for going to college or getting a job. I know I'd rather an older age for doing all of that. I remember in college those who were 17 or 16 struggled to socialise because even those who didn't drink but were 18 could go to all the social events in bars and clubs, the under agers were always left out.

beechwood55

My daughter will be 17 in the summer and heading into 5th year.
My neighbour's daughter will be 15 in May, doing Junior Cert and then heading into 5th year (her school do not offer TY to all pupils).
Huge difference in age range there..she started school at 4 and 4 months and no TY...so she will be 16 doing her Leaving Cert and then starting college 3 months later (that's her plan). That is extremely young...am looking at my daughter now and just could not conceive of her being in UCD or Trinity at this age!!

byhookorbycrook

I agree with Mel.b Preschools are meant to be "play schools" but some seem to think that having children writing letters and doing Jolly Phonics is a badge of honour. Hence many junior infant teachers end up trying to correct the incorrect pencil grip and letter formation for most of the first term.And don't get me started on phonics- some places teach sounds like "cuh" for c "aay" for a and "tuh" for t- if you blend all 3 , you won't get the word cat!
They will be academic tasks long enough. As psychiatrist David Carey often says "play is the "work" of childhood."

irish bloke

Many thanks for all the excellent and informed advise. I think I am convinced I'm doing the right thing and not sending him until next year..

kandr10

I'd agree on holding back. I teach 6th class and I can spot easily the kids who started too young. They're academically capable but not as mature or socially able to cope as well. One year of his crèche buddies being in big school and your child not won't have lasting effects but sending him early to school most definitely will.

huskerdu

My daughter is very intelligent and was really bored for her last year in creche when she was 4 and some of her friends went to school and she didn't. One year when the child is 4 is not very important in the grand scheme of things.

Shes now 13 and in secondary and the extra year of maturity has helped her at every stage.

Also, if your son was born in April, and goes to school this year, he is likely to be one of the youngest in the class. A lot of parents are not sending summer babies to school at 4 and some schools are putting the minimum age back so he wont be too old.

Big Bag of Chips

I think you're right to hold on to him. He will most likely sail through school academically, whatever age you start him. But emotionally he might struggle if he's not ready for it. And it's something you mightnt necessarily pick up on until he's put into the situation.

My eldest is a Nov birthday, so he started at 4, and turned 5 a few weeks later. Like your lad he is ahead of all his peers academically. He had taught himself to read before starting school!! From playing the alphablocks game on the CBeebies website. I've always said learning is his 'thing'. Other kids are good at running, or football, or hurling, or art or whatever. He's good at learning. It doesn't matter what the subject topic is, he just laps it up.

However, there was a time a few years ago when I was considering taking him out of school to home school him. He just couldn't cope with it. He didn't get the rough and tumble of boys jostling in a corridor. Couldn't understand why a boy would 'push' him and nobody would punish that boy. But the reality was he wasn't pushed, more so a child pushed past him... Do you know what I mean? He used to be so wound up by others and very upset almost everyday by something that a child did, which was nothing more than children being children! He will be 12 this year and is in 5th class and it is only now, he's catching up with himself. He has even recognised it in himself that he deals with situations much more maturely and doesn't get as wound up by others.

I had probably 5 years of problems with him in school while his emotional side struggled to catch up with his academic side. And it's really only this year I'm not worrying about how he'll react to something.

chelseaos

Just wait until next year. I started school at 5 and a half and I never went to preschool but I was top of the class consistently throughout primary and secondary school. It definitely won't negatively affect him. Many teachers rather students to start at 5 anyway. And remember that in lots of European countries they start at 6.

Midnight Sundance

I teach junior infants and every year my heart sinks when I see the amount of children that start school having just turned 4.
Some are academically able to a certain degree but most are definitely not socially able to cope.
I can spot the younger children a mile off without ever having seen their dates of birth.
I feel it just starts them off on a lower rung of a ladder and they spend the rest of the school life trying to catch up with the others,
It breaks my heart to know that if many of these children had started a year later, their experiences of school life would be a whole lot more positive.
Obviously there are always exceptions but in general I would advise people to keep their children until they are 5 .

Millem

Very good article in Irish times yesterday on school starting age. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/children-increasingly-over-five-starting-primary-school-1.3007567

It seems 72% in junior infants were 5 on 1st jan 2017. I think it will rise every year due to the ecce. I think it will become the norm for even January, February and march babies to start school at 5.

Dubh Geannain

lazygal wrote: »

I have a girl who's an end of May baby. I always knew we wouldn't send her until she was five. I know last year she'd have been academically fine for school but I was more concerned about her social and coping skills. Waiting the extra year was the right choice.
The preschool might have a waiting list and want to free up your son's place. Any service I know (and I have worked as a preschool Montessori teacher myself) would always propose waiting until as close to five, especially for boys. I would feel it is always better to be older in a class than on the younger side. I know children sent to school too soon and it can have long term impacts. There is no rush, they are in formal schooling long enough.

Late to this thread but I'd agree with this. Son just turned 4 but won't be going to school until 2018.

In fact I'd agree with the overriding sentiment here. Academics aside there are other aspects of a child's development that will benefit from the delayed start. Social skills and coping skills are very important and as his Montessori teacher said "emotional development." My wife is a primary school teacher too and is in full agreement.

The Montessori told me, she has the same message for all parents regardless of intelligence. If you can hold for another year, do it. She was actually a little surprised at how few parents actually looked for her input.

silverharp

my son was 5 in Aug of the year he started school, generally following the advice here, it wasn't about academics just generally not wanting a boy to be among the youngest in the class. Also being in a mixed school the girls shoot ahead around 5th/6th class so feel its best to have the extra maturity. then for LC and picking courses and starting college I think its better to be 18 going on 19

Ruddler

I asked the same question on here this time last year. We kept my son in playschool an extra year and he will start school in September this year aged 5 and a half. I am so glad we waited. Academically he wouldn't have had a problem but socially and emotionally he is far more mature this year. He's a quiet boy but his teachers have said this year he's "top dog" in the playschool! My next child is a summer baby and will start aged 5, no question.

shesty

Mine are june and April babies.They won't start school til they are five.I don't care how academically advanced they are, it's all about the social thing for me.My own parent is a primary teacher and says the exact same thing as a teacher mentioned a few posts ago.They are constantly 'behind' the other kids socially and on the back foot.It's not fair on them.And at the end of the day academically, they all start at the same place in JI ( at the beginning) so it doesn't matter what they know going in the door.I feel that preschool teachers go outside their remit a bit in advising parents on this, although I appreciate they are probably just answering a question asked of them in most cases.

MillyD123

Folks, can I ask your opinion on a starting age for a child whose birthday is early December ?.

My daughter is just completing her first free preschool year and will miss out on a second one by 3 weeks. Her birthday is 10th Dec. and only kids born from 1st Jan are eligble for a second year.

This means she is due to start school this September at 4 years and 9 months, unless I keep her out myself and pay for a second pre-school year.

Her older sister would have started at same age (born end November) and she gets on fine. I just feel my youngest girl is less mature.

Anyhow any opinions appreciated. Thanks

boardsuser1

My daughter now 6 started on the day of her 4th birthday, end of september, 3 weeks after the rest.

The pre school wanted us to hold her back for the 'free year'

My OH was almost convinced by the idea of waiting one more year.

Me and the Father in law both objected and said no.

School accepted her with no issues even though she is the youngest in the class.

She is highly intelligent and has excelled compared to some of her older peers.

My OH is now thankful she didn't hold her back.

My son will be 4 a week after the school year starts as well, in he'll go.

I was held back 1 year in my childhood, it was detrimental to my development.

These people are professionals in their area of employment yes, but no one knows a child better than their parents.

I will never hold a child back. 4 is the magic number.

Some might not agree with me but it hasn't backfired on me, i've 4 kids.

MillyD123

Thanks for your perspective KC161, its great that your little girl is getting on so well.

boardsuser1

MillyD123 wrote: »

Thanks for your perspective KC161, its great that your little girl is getting on so well.

Thanks Milly.

The eldest and middle daughters are doing great.

Youngest daughter started at 4 and a half, has difficulties with certain area's requiring an SNA, but we wouldn't change anything.