Vaping classed as smoking

The Witches Cat

Hi
Just looking for peoples thoughts on this.
I work in a large company in Dublin. Until recently we could vape anywhere outside and a blind eye was turned to us vaping indoors.
This week notices were put up saying that all vaping must take place in the smoking shelter.
Now it took me many many years to get off cigarettes and on to vaping and the thoughts of standing in the middle of other smokers has me a bit worried that I may fall back into smoking again.
I tried to explain this to management but it has fallen on deaf ears.
As far as I am concerned I don't smoke anymore and feel it is unfair and dangerous to my health that I am being forced into the smoking shelter.
I have suggested they install a vaping only shelter but again they would not listen.
Am I wrong in thinking that this is unfair.
Thanks

ibFoxer

Unfortunately, rules are rules. Local Lidl has a no vape policy, as does Supermacs. I'd imagine it has to do with the general public as opposed to management wanting to make your life more difficult, after all, vaping leaves a bit of a trail.

The Witches Cat

ibFoxer wrote:

Unfortunately, rules are rules. Local Lidl has a no vape policy, as does Supermacs. I'd imagine it has to do with the general public as opposed to management wanting to make your life more difficult, after all, vaping leaves a bit of a trail.

Oh I understand that but I don't see why I have to be forced into a smoking shelter with other smokers. I did suggest a vaping only shelter but it was refused. My main point is that after struggling for years to get off cigarettes I don't think it is right that I have to stand in the middle of a smoke filled shelter. If they did provide vaping only shelters I would have no issues with it whatsoever.

stevek93

I can understand the OPs concern here I am smoke free two years now and I live in a house full of smokers who smoke around me while I vape.

So your concern of going back on the smokes because you are around people who are smoking I wouldn't worry to much about.

What would concern me is having to stand in a hut full of smoke is there nowhere else you can go?

The Witches Cat

stevek93 wrote: »

I can understand the OPs concern here I am smoke free two years now and I live in a house full of smokers who smoke around me while I vape.

So your concern of going back on the smokes because you are around people who are smoking I wouldn't worry to much about.

What would concern me is having to stand in a hut full of smoke is there nowhere else you can go?

You see that's my whole point. Having to stand in a hut full of smoke. I wouldn't mind if there was a vape only area but there is not. I'm treated as a smoker but I don't smoke. Id like to take a stand on this but I'm questioning myself whether I'm right or wrong.

Zelda247

Maybe if you can gather the evidence that there is no harm from Vaping Vapor and present that to them they may consider you request. Also I read a while back that the NHS were allowing Vaping in their grounds but not Smoking so something like that may help. If all else fails maybe just pop into the loo and have a smoke.

Fratton Fred

I would imagine that there is a bit if arse covering at play as well.

Giving vaping preferential treatment implies that the company condones it, which they would be foolish to do.

Treating them the same, implies that they don't want you to do either.

DirtyBollox

In the company i'm in they amended the no smoking policy a good few years ago to cover all vaping. Its classed the exact same as smoking and they dont care. Tried for a vaping only shed and got told where to go. I wish you the best of luck with this.

nobodys_hero

That's a tough one. If you're a vaper you're not a smoker. But people who don't smoke don't see the difference because both are nicotine addicts and both produce "smoke".

So, while I very much don't like sharing space with smokers, or rather their smoke, it sometimes happens that I have to and I make a point of standing near rather than in smoking shelters. Also because smokers themselves seem bothered by my clouds which is funny when mine is the stuff that isn't doing them harm.

Given that non-smokers don't see the difference (and even smokers view it as just fake smoking with weird smelling smoke), you run the risk of being the pain in the arse trouble maker if you make a stand. However, having got smoke free they are forcing you to be at risk of secondary smoke if they make you go in the smoking shelter and possibly open themselves up to risks of being sued in the future.

If it was me I'd make a half stand. That is, I'd point out that they are forcing a non-smoker to share a space with carcinogenic smoke which is much like letting smokers smoke in the office (those were the days). I'd say that I'll abide by company rules, but that although I am a nicotine addict, I am very much not a smoker and resent being put in a position that will be damaging to my health by the company. I would request that they think about it a bit more and get back to me.

Taking the line of being upset by something is more likely to get you further than being militant about something with an employer. "I'm a team player but this is really bothering me" rather than "I'm going to take this to my solicitor". Confront me with the second as an opening gambit about absolutely anything and I'll look for ways to get rid of you as soon as I can. Even if you succeed that way you're career prospects are over with the company.

cruizer101

nobodys_hero wrote: »

I'd point out that they are forcing a non-smoker to share a space with carcinogenic smoke which is much like letting smokers smoke in the office

That's a bit of leap they are not forcing anyone to share the smokers space. They are saying if you want to Vape you have to share the smokers space. Vaping is a choice you make not something forced on you.

OP I don't think you have much more options tbh other than what you have already tried i.e. alternative shelter. Best you can probably do is vape near the shelter and not downwind of the others.

Jodotman

I wouldnt vape in a restaunt or in a office cause I know it pisses people off.

Your office does not have to accomadate your Vaping and are right to send you offside.

What I do in work is vape in the bathroom stalls/shower room or in a discreet location like the top of the stairs onto the roof or bottom of the stairs to the fire exit.

leche solara

It is only a concession by an employer to provide any kind of facility for smokers/vapers. Not all will have space or resources to provide a shed or shelter. There are many who provide nothing and you have to wait until lunch time or going home time to have any kind of smoke.

amcalester

You're not being forced to into the smoking shelter, you have the choice of not vaping.

youdipstick

When I use to have a crafty smoke in hospital toilets,the smoke always rises & people can see & smell it,now that I'm vaping in the same toilets,the vapour sinks to the floor & use a flavour with no smell & having a seat with the look of a Cheshire Cat:D:D:D

CalamariFritti

I think they probably won't budge on that one OP. Large corporate organizations like that are rather predictable in their ways. Its all about risk management, exposure, liability.

I think it simply came to their attention that people were vaping inside and they had to cut that out. They do now in fairness. It only takes one complaint and they'll be sh1tting themselves altogether. There probably was one or more. And once you're outside they will tell you that you need to be in a designated space. Couldn't be just hanging out here, there and everywhere. Wouldn't look great, safety, liability issues bladibla...

Thats the way it goes...

But since you're vaping you already decided for yourself that smoking isn't great. Just go all the way give up the vapes too, no?

When you think about it. It has been widely accepted that smokers have to go out every now and then to satisfy their addiction. But if you take the history of it having become acceptable over decades away and look at it as a bare fact, it's kinda mad really. I mean what would you think if I told youI had to go out every 2 hours for glass of wine or something.

tommy2bad

I think your only option is a solicitors letter, i'm presuming this is a non union shop, if wrong then that would be your first port of call.
Your argument is if they facilitate smoking then as a matter of curtsy they should also facilitate those who no longer smoke and may be in the process of quiting, providing facilities would encourage more quiting and be part of a healthy workplace policy. However forcing non smokers to remain in a non smoke free space exposes them to secondhand smoke and discourages their efforts to remain smoke free.
their's some policy documents from England to support this.
The reason i say lawyer up is they have refused to deal with this any other way.
and yes while I recognize their right to make rules as they see fit, it's their property after all, they do have a legal obligation to protect the workforce from secondhand smoke. you are only pointing out how they are breaking this and offering them an opportunity to promote a smoke free environment and healthy workplace image by encouraging switching to a safer alternative.

RayCun

A solicitor's letter?

They have no legal obligation to provide a smoking area or a vaping area.

They are well within their rights to ban vaping in the building.

No one is forcing the OP to sit in the smoking area.

Esel

tommy2bad wrote: »

I think your only option is a solicitors letter, i'm presuming this is a non union shop, if wrong then that would be your first port of call.

Don't even think about doing this!

Enjoy the fresh air outside; stay away from the secondhand smoke (outside the shelter if necessary). Don't be doing that mad smoke signal thing (exhaling mad amounts of vapour).

Who knows - you might even convert a few smokers.

tl/dr Do *not* fight the powah!

JH_raheny

same in our office, we used to be allowed vaping and our GM thought it was great seeing people quitting the fags, then 1 or 2 people started moaning about it ( one of them even smoking rollies herself ) and we ended up with a ban on it.
I don't think a solicitor can do much for you unless you take it out as a discrimination case, you might win but you probably still wont be allowed vaping in the office and I'm sure you wont be popular with the boss for at least a little while

bmwguy

I vape and I'll give you a solution. Go to the jacks, the supply closet, wherever in your building is away from prying eyes and have a little vape if you need to.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Orion

bmwguy wrote: »

I vape and I'll give you a solution. Go to the jacks, the supply closet, wherever in your building is away from prying eyes and have a little vape if you need to.

Yeah that's great advice. Go do something that could get you fired for a gross breach of conduct. Smarts++

jonski

Given the litigious nature of todays society I wouldn't be overly surprised to see some one or some group try and make a case for vapers not being lumped in with smokers . If public health care come on board with the '95% safer slogan' and given that companies have already set a precedent with their seperate smoking areas who knows what could happen . Maybe the companies will eject the smokers from the shed and install the vapers, telling the smokers that they have another option . Or maybe the companies will tell the smokers that they have another option which they then don't formally recognise as an addiction so they don't feel obligated to provide smoking/vaping areas . OR...... maybe I don't have a clue what I'm talking about and should move away from the keyboard .

The Witches Cat

Thanks for all the replies. My point basically is that I don't smoke. So why do I have to be lobbed in with the smokers. if my company wants to ban vaping then I accept that. My one and only point is why to I have to inhale other peoples smoke after it took so long to quit.

tommy2bad

The Witches Cat wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. My point basically is that I don't smoke. So why do I have to be lobbed in with the smokers. if my company wants to ban vaping then I accept that. My one and only point is why to I have to inhale other peoples smoke after it took so long to quit.

That's exactly the point I was making. The only answer is ignorance on behalf of management, probably encouraged by the health bodies here in Ireland. In a way it's an admission that the whole second hand smoke thing was made up.
I'm not 're amending going to the law btw, most likely outcome is all "smoking" banned on site and the smoking shelter knocked.
You have no right to smoke or vale at work, it's entirely a concession by the company. You do have a right to not be exposed to smoke though. The fact that they offer the concession of vaping in the smoking area creates president. One which conflicts with the requirement to protect you from smoke.
It's a lost cause really as theirs no logic behind this requirement and arguing the point won't change their decision. It would be seen as giving in to a subordinate.

RayCun

The Witches Cat wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. My point basically is that I don't smoke. So why do I have to be lobbed in with the smokers. if my company wants to ban vaping then I accept that. My one and only point is why to I have to inhale other peoples smoke after it took so long to quit.

But you don't have to.

That might be the only place on the premises where you are allowed vape, but no one is forcing you to vape on the premises.

lee_baby_simms

It's the same where I work. I guess we've moved on from the days when vaping was the very odd person with a CE4+Ego battery trying to quit cigarettes. We now have a lot of people going round with 300w devices exhaling weather systems. If enough people, mainly loyal customers or employees, find it obnoxious then a manager/employer is left with no choice but to make rules.