did you ever move farms?

joeyboy12345

Have a small part time operation approx. 50 acres. I am seriously considering leasing it and taking a farm in a more desirable location. By that i mean i am at the stage where kids are a major influence and the area we are in is a dead end 1 horse town. I dont particularly like it myself either but for the farm.
We havnt put down roots full time yet so we have no mortgage holding us back.
The proposed move is about 50km away, the outskirts of a big town. We both work full time close to this town too so wouldnt involve changing the jobs either.
However there is help at home if im away which i wouldnt have in the new area, at least not for a while anyway.
Has anyone did anything similar?how did it work out?also telling the family you dont want to live near or on your farm is a big thing too!

mayota

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Have a small part time operation approx. 50 acres. I am seriously considering leasing it and taking a farm in a more desirable location. By that i mean i am at the stage where kids are a major influence and the area we are in is a dead end 1 horse town. I dont particularly like it myself either but for the farm.
We havnt put down roots full time yet so we have no mortgage holding us back.
The proposed move is about 50km away, the outskirts of a big town. We both work full time close to this town too so wouldnt involve changing the jobs either.
However there is help at home if im away which i wouldnt have in the new area, at least not for a while anyway.
Has anyone did anything similar?how did it work out?also telling the family you dont want to live near or on your farm is a big thing too!

What size farm/enterprise are you hoping to take on? Sounds like a lot of hassle when yere both working full time. Maybe lease out your own but keep a few acres of it for yourself.

_Brian

I could only see that a worthwhile effort if it allowed you to farm full time.

You'll still be working off farm but with no back up which is a huge miss.

joeyboy12345

mayota wrote:

What size farm/enterprise are you hoping to take on? Sounds like a lot of hassle when yere both working full time. Maybe lease out your own but keep a few acres of it for yourself.

Id be hoping to find something similar in the 50 acre region and a yard and shed to match,

_Brian wrote:

You'll still be working off farm but with no back up which is a huge miss.

That is the big 1, being able to call on help at home or from a neighbour means an awful lot in this business.

I dont depend on the farm income and never will, its a hobbie and a lifestyle. The difference is i know that and can admit it unlike a lot of "full time" lads. The issue of making money out of it or the feasability of it doesnt matter AS LONG as it isnt loosing money.

Its a great way to bring up kids and thats majorly important to us,

Bullocks

Would there be any chance of finding work closer to the farm ?

Mooooo

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Id be hoping to find something similar in the 50 acre region and a yard and shed to match,


That is the big 1, being able to call on help at home or from a neighbour means an awful lot in this business.

I dont depend on the farm income and never will, its a hobbie and a lifestyle. The difference is i know that and can admit it unlike a lot of "full time" lads. The issue of making money out of it or the feasability of it doesnt matter AS LONG as it isnt loosing money.

Its a great way to bring up kids and thats majorly important to us,

Full-time by their nature do not describe it as that because they have to make a living from it. Are you looking to rent another place or buy? Is it more feasible if not tied to the home place to sell and buy in an area you'd prefer? Would the tax break for farm consolidation, if its still there, allow you to sell and buy without getting caught for tax on the home Farm sale?

joeyboy12345

Bullocks wrote:

Would there be any chance of finding work closer to the farm ?

Working away isnt the problem, its the lifestyle my family and kids will have if we stay at the home place. The local town is dead, and the closest big town is 30mins away and its not hectic to say the least. Simple things like no cafe to go for tea and scone on a saturday as a family treat, no gym or evening classes, closest gym is 30mins away. And as for the kids if you dont play gaa football or arent good at it theres not much else for you. Kids need to experience as much as we can give them and as much variety aswel, gymnastics, a school of music, a swim club ect.

Are you looking to rent another place or buy? Is it more feasible if not tied to the home place to sell and buy in an area you'd prefer? Would the tax break for farm consolidation, if its still there, allow you to sell and buy without getting caught for tax on the home Farm sale?[/quote]

I wouldnt sell, i had 2 ideas.
1. Rent my own and use the income from this to rent another farm

2. Not rent and perhaps keep my weanlins and drystock at home and get away with a vist every 2nd or 3rd day and sell any extra grass as silage and keep the sucklers in the new farm.

Option2 could be the best option as i will qualify for national reserve this time round which will help me take on the new land.

roosky

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Have a small part time operation approx. 50 acres. I am seriously considering leasing it and taking a farm in a more desirable location. By that i mean i am at the stage where kids are a major influence and the area we are in is a dead end 1 horse town. I dont particularly like it myself either but for the farm.
We havnt put down roots full time yet so we have no mortgage holding us back.
The proposed move is about 50km away, the outskirts of a big town. We both work full time close to this town too so wouldnt involve changing the jobs either.
However there is help at home if im away which i wouldnt have in the new area, at least not for a while anyway.
Has anyone did anything similar?how did it work out?also telling the family you dont want to live near or on your farm is a big thing too!

regardless of the final outcome, fair play to you for being so open minded and forward thinking for your kids, many farmers would be stuck in their ways and rear kids in the back of beyonds to "keep them out of trouble" best of luck however you go about it, sorry but i have no experience or advice on your situation

joeyboy12345

roosky wrote:

regardless of the final outcome, fair play to you for being so open minded and forward thinking for your kids, many farmers would be stuck in their ways and rear kids in the back of beyonds to "keep them out of trouble" best of luck however you go about it, sorry but i have no experience or advice on your situation

Thank you roosky,Like i said im not dependant on the farm, im at it for the lifestyle and genuine intrest. You can still live up a little boreen in the back of beyond and have a country lifestyle while being 10 or 15mins drive from a good urban centre!

Also the other half has to be taken into account, if im off farming all day saturday she has to drive 30 mins to get to a decent town, were both drivin the guts of an hour each way every day to work so the last thing ya want is to go driving on your weekends.

I spent some time in australia working with a contractor and it really was an eye opener. This lad was born in W.A on a farm, sold it to buy 1 in Queensland almost 3000 kms away. He saw it as no big deal. He told me it happens quite regularly over there. I couldnt get my head around it at the time. Tried explaining the connection to the land in ireland to him and he just looked at me like i was mad!and do you know what?hes dead right! Land wont keep you warm at night or give you the fulfillment of seeing your kids achieve something in life. Being happy and having a happy family is more important. Little point in having a great farm but miserable family and private life.

I also dont know if any of you remember a programme on bbc about 5 or 6 years ago. It really struck a cord with me at the time, it was about a man from fermanagh i think (def N.I) who sold the family farm and cows to go set up a farm in canada i think. It was a real lump in the throat watch for me but i was so impressed with his bravery and vision. It all makes you think! He brought his wife and kids and left his elderly mother.

razor8

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/video-ear-to-the-ground-visits-4500-cow-dairy-farm-in-the-us/

This is him now

Muckit

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

He brought his wife and kids and left his elderly mother.

That lad that you'd see in the journal that moved over to France did the same thing. Not an easy decision to make. Winners and losers.

pedigree 6

A Dairy farmer here sold the farm and bought apartments in Lanzarote.
The family are grown up now and live in Ireland but himself and the wife are spending their retirement in Lanzarote.
That was a big lifestyle jump.

Another dairy farmer neighbour sold up the place and the whole family moved to Australia. (Not sure what they're doing)?

You'd nearly think from this post that there's no dairy farmers left here.:p

Although with land making e18,000/acre here it gives you options.

Waffletraktor

pedigree 6 wrote: »

A Dairy farmer here sold the farm and bought apartments in Lanzarote.
The family are grown up now and live in Ireland but himself and the wife are spending their retirement in Lanzarote.
That was a big lifestyle jump.

Another dairy farmer neighbour sold up the place and the whole family moved to Australia. (Not sure what they're doing)?

You'd nearly think from this post that there's no dairy farmers left here.:p

Although with land making e18,000/acre here it gives you options.

Motorway roll over money?

Grueller

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Motorway roll over money?

I am from the same county as Pedigree6 and have seen land locally here make €18k an acre with no road money involved.

Waffletraktor

Grueller wrote: »

I am from the same county as Pedigree6 and have seen land locally here make €18k an acre with no road money involved.

Back home would be the same, my uncle farms beside the Blackstairs. Apparently land made 18.4k/acre last week? Surely has to be roll over money or a multi-decade mortgage!

popa smurf

The uncle moved from the arse end of Kerry to farm in co Meath he had 8 kids at the time a few cows and a couple of horses that was nearly 50 years ago" land commission " he always loved kerry and moved back down 10 years ago himself and wife. both deceased now

pedigree 6

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Back home would be the same, my uncle farms beside the Blackstairs. Apparently land made 18.4k/acre last week? Surely has to be roll over money or a multi-decade mortgage!

Not sure, it was bought by an auctioneer.
Just have to wait and see who's tractor ploughs the land.

Sam Kade

pedigree 6 wrote: »

A Dairy farmer here sold the farm and bought apartments in Lanzarote.
The family are grown up now and live in Ireland but himself and the wife are spending their retirement in Lanzarote.
That was a big lifestyle jump.

Another dairy farmer neighbour sold up the place and the whole family moved to Australia. (Not sure what they're doing)?

You'd nearly think from this post that there's no dairy farmers left here.:p

Although with land making e18,000/acre here it gives you options.

My cousins friend sold his house for 600k back in the Celtic tiger and bought a ranch in Canada. I know another man that went to Canada and came home again because he couldn't stick the long cold winters.

pedigree 6

Sam Kade wrote: »

My cousins friend sold his house for 600k back in the Celtic tiger and bought a ranch in Canada. I know another man that went to Canada and came home again because he couldn't stick the long cold winters.

That's like a relation of mine. He went out to Canada in the 1920's and came home fairly sharpish too.
He said in the summer you'd be sweating buckets and in the winter you'd be spitting hailstones.:D

How big is a "Ranch"?

Sam Kade

pedigree 6 wrote: »

That's like a relation of mine. He went out to Canada in the 1920's and came home fairly sharpish too.
He said in the summer you'd be sweating buckets and in the winter you'd be spitting hailstones.:D

How big is a "Ranch"?

Not sure the size but I know you'd buy a fair track of land back then if you sold an average size farm here. Land here was making 16k/ ac back then and land in Canada was around 1500/ac. Going by those figures he bought around 400 acres. Of course you'd want about 4 acres in Canada to keep the sane stock as 1 acre here.

pedigree 6

Sam Kade wrote: »

Not sure the size but I know you'd buy a fair track of land back then if you sold an average size farm here. Land here was making 16k/ ac back then and land in Canada was around 1500/ac. Going by those figures he bought around 400 acres. Of course you'd want about 4 acres in Canada to keep the sane stock as 1 acre here.

God i'm with you all the way here it's uncanny.:pac:

There were distant relations over from Ontario here a few years ago and you're man was telling us there was more grass behind the electric fence here in the ditch than he'd have on his entire farm.:p

Buford was talking about tough times recently in farming in the U.S.
We have other relations in Indiana and they would tell you of farms who couldn't pay the banks and they would leave the keys on the doorstep and sign with "Gone to California" on the door and this was 20 to 30 years ago.

Muckit

joeyboy12345 wrote: »

Have a small part time operation approx. 50 acres. I am seriously considering leasing it and taking a farm in a more desirable location.

The tax exceptions with it being a farm is another plus to making the move, over say if you were a shopkeeper, or am I talking through my hat?

If you were to up sticks in that situation and decided to lease out the shop you would be liable for tax as it would be viewed as an income and you'd still have the expense of having to rent or lease yourself somewhere else.

Sam Kade

Muckit wrote: »

The tax exceptions with it being a farm is another plus to making the move, over say if you were a shopkeeper, or am I talking through my hat?

If you were to up sticks in that situation and decided to lease out the shop you would be liable for tax as it would be viewed as an income and you'd still have the expense of having to rent or lease yourself somewhere else.

surely the rent you pay could be offset against tax so it would balance out.

Panch18

Sam Kade wrote: »

surely the rent you pay could be offset against tax so it would balance out.

Well it's actually a tax positive position as opposed to being neutral

Say you rent out for 10k
Pay rent of 10k and make say 15k profit from farming activities

If you made 15k on your own place you pay tax on that
However in above situation you would lease out your own place tax free for 10k and only pay tax on the 15k profit minus the lease cost of 10k so only on the 5k profits. If in higher rate you'd save nearly 5k in tax

Or that's my understanding of it anyway

paudy67

Panch18 wrote: »

Well it's actually a tax positive position as opposed to being neutral

Say you rent out for 10k
Pay rent of 10k and make say 15k profit from farming activities

If you made 15k on your own place you pay tax on that
However in above situation you would lease out your own place tax free for 10k and only pay tax on the 15k profit minus the lease cost of 10k so only on the 5k profits. If in higher rate you'd save nearly 5k in tax

Or that's my understanding of it anyway

I may be wrong but i think you claim the rent tax free you cant be a active farmer?

paudy67

At First i was going to say i find it very hard to leave the home place. However i am lucky we not in the sticks.

However my grandfather (mother side) sold mountain land in tipperany and purchased double the land in good north cork land. It was some move and some going to from him to pay for it.

Username John

paudy67 wrote: »

I may be wrong but i think you claim the rent tax free you cant be a active farmer?

Don't believe so Paudy.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/leasing-farm-land.html

joeyboy12345

Panch18 wrote:

Well it's actually a tax positive position as opposed to being neutral

Panch18 wrote:

Say you rent out for 10k Pay rent of 10k and make say 15k profit from farming activities

Panch18 wrote:

If you made 15k on your own place you pay tax on that However in above situation you would lease out your own place tax free for 10k and only pay tax on the 15k profit minus the lease cost of 10k so only on the 5k profits. If in higher rate you'd save nearly 5k in tax

Very interesting way of looking at it, especially as i am close to the higher rate of tax with the day job! Perhaps it could work out betteqt financially to set my own and take another in its place!