RTA | Refusing to admit liability

M3CS

I was involved in a minor road traffic accident this afternoon and I have a couple of questions. This is going to be quite a long post so I apologise in advance but I just want to explain the sequence of events exactly as they happened while it's still fresh in my head.

My car was parked on Westminster Road in Foxrock this afternoon. It's a main road with space for parking on both sides. I got in my car and there's a line of traffic to my right so I'm looking in the wing mirror waiting for it to clear. While I'm looking in the mirror I can see a car approaching getting far too close to mine. I realise that there's not enough space between the two cars and they're going to clip my mirror and there's nothing I can do to prevent it. Sure enough, she walloped it as she drove by. The woman driving stopped for a couple of seconds but then set off again. I don't think she knew I was in the car so I beeped the horn several times and she pulled in. My wing mirror was pushed fully forward, some paint was scraped off it and the clear piece of plastic that houses the indicator light was broken. I explained that it would have to be repaired and she asked if I would take €50 from her to get it fixed. I refused as I knew the cost to repair would be more than that. She asked how much it would cost to repair and I told her I didn't know but that it would be more than €50. She looked at me and said something to the effect of "Well, I don't know what we're going to do". I told her I'd get an estimate if she didn't want it to go through her insurance. She wasn't interested. I tried to talk to her about what her options were but she wasn't receptive to anything I was saying.

A Garda car just happened to be driving by at this point and I flagged them down as this woman was being difficult. I told the guard what happened and he explained to her that she hit a car that was stationary and, therefore, she was at fault. She responded "He might have been pulling out. I was behind the car ahead and they didn't hit him so he might have pulled out in front of me" - I honestly couldn't believe what I was hearing. I was gobsmacked. I asked why would I pull out into oncoming traffic? She couldn't think of an answer. We we're going back and forth for a minute before the guard said it sounds like this is going to have to go through insurance because no one is admitting liability. He said to the two of us that we'd be mad to go through insurance but she refused to admit that she was at fault so I really had no choice. He had a look at both cars and said at least her mirror didn't have any significant damage, only mine did. As he got back into his car the woman said to me "Well, the guard is happy that my car has no damage to it, so..." implying that she couldn't have caused any damage to my wing mirror simply because there was no visible damage to hers. Again, I was gobsmacked. She implied that she was going to deny that any contact was made between the two cars at all. I went back over to the Garda car and told them what she had just said to me. The guard got out of the car and walked over to her and said "Did you just say that to him?". She mumbled something under her breath and the guard said he was going to write up a report.

I got my licence and insurance out of the car and as I was walking back the woman then said that she'll just pay for the repairs as she doesn't want a report done up. However, the guards said they were insisting on a report and they took both of our details. They asked us both to produce at our local stations and left us then. The woman began walking back to her car and I asked if we could talk for a minute and decide how we're going to proceed with this. She wasn't interested, saying she didn't think she'd done anything wrong before driving off.

I called both insurance companies when I got home and advised them of what had happened. Her insurance company said they would contact her and I got a call from her shortly after. She was upset that I got the insurance companies involved, saying she would have preferred if we came to an agreement ourselves. I said how could we come to an agreement with the way you left things earlier, denying all liability and driving off? She said she went to a main dealer on her way home and got an estimate of €135 for the repairs and she wants to pay it herself rather than go through the insurance. This was the third time she offered to pay for the damage but - for some bizarre reason - she still won't admit liability. We won't hear back from the insurance companies until Monday so I said I'd speak to her then.

I apologise for the lengthly summary of the incident but if anyone has managed to make it this far I've got a couple of questions. Her main concern now is that because I've made a claim against her she's worried that her premium will be increased significantly regardless of whether I go ahead with it or not. She believes that because the insurance companies are aware that we were involved in a RTA the two of us have a red line underneath our names so to speak and we will both see our premiums increase because of this even if we settle it amongst ourselves. Is this true? I was told by my insurance representative today that my premium would only increase if I was found to be liable (obvious, I know). Will it increase for me regardless?

The other question I have is how should I deal with her request to pay for the damage herself? She wanted me to call the insurance this evening and tell them to forget about the claim but I said absolutely not - I told her I wouldn't pick up the phone before getting a confirmed estimate and the money in my hand. Despite going and getting an estimate herself and offering to pay for the damage she is refusing to admit that it was her fault and will not claim liability. I may be overthinking a bit here but I feel like I may be leaving myself open or something if I don't get her to admit liability. What should I do?

I've never been involved in anything like this before so apologies for the rambling but if anyone can offer any advice at all I would really appreciate it.

Steve

TBH, let the insurance deal with it. She is trying to squirrel out of responsibility and if you let her away then you will be worse off in the end.

You didn't say what car you have but I destroyed a mirror on mine a while back (my own fault, clipped a pillar in an underground carpark) and it cost me over €300 to fix.

eoinzy2000

Youre spot on. Get the money in your hand before dropping anything. Not sure bout insurance, but nothing u can do about that now. Dont worry about it.

M3CS

Steve wrote: »

You didn't say what car you have but I destroyed a mirror on mine a while back (my own fault, clipped a pillar in an underground carpark) and it cost me over €300 to fix.

I forgot to mention it's a 2008 Volkswagen Golf. The mirror case (shell?) itself doesn't appear to be broken but it will need paint. There's a piece of clear plastic along the lower half of the mirror that houses an indicator light. That part is broken and needs to be replaced. I can't imagine it will be too expensive but I'm going to a bodyshop in the morning to get an estimate.

Arcade_Tryer

That woman has ruined my day! Can't imagine the effect she had on you!

Maybe invest in a dash cam for the future?

Steve

I'd be surprised if they quote you less than the cost of a replacement mirror - 300 ish. but do let us know.

Plopli

You did all what you had to do.
Incident is reported to Garda and insurances.

Now get a quote for repair from a place you are happy with. If you are feeling generous, shop around. Do it asap.
Don't forget that often, the quotes they will give you can be changed if they discover more damage when they disassemble to do the repair. I don't see it as a risk for a rear view mirror but for a something like a rear ending, it can get consequent.

Present the quote to the other party.
If the other party pays up the full sum of the repair, cash in hand, then call back the insurance to cancel the claim.
Do not forget to draw up a written agreement stating that this resolve the incident without any further recourse from the other party, drawn in 2 examples, both signed by each party.

If they give you any (and I really mean any) discussion, walk away and let insurance deal with them. Do not engage in any further discussion.

brightspark

She is actually correct in not admitting liability, most insurance companies specify that you should never admit liability.

https://www.chill.ie/blog/admitting-liability-in-an-accident/

Staplor

I was involved in a bigger collision a few years ago. He was stopped at a T junction turning onto the main road where I was, he drove into my car. He admitted driving into the side of my car, but would not admit liability. Gardai drove by, stopped, couldn't believe your man, down to the station for a report. Anyway, I put it through the insurance as your man was just being a dick about it.

You owe this woman nothing, the way she's behaving I'd go straight through the insurance.

Plopli

brightspark wrote: »

She is actually correct in not admitting liability, most insurance companies specify that you should never admit liability.

https://www.chill.ie/blog/admitting-liability-in-an-accident/

Yes, she is right to not admit any liability or any responsibility.

But on the other hand, you have to also weight the probability of being considered liable when you involve insurances.

It's never completely clear cut and it will be your call.

If the damage is 'minor', you judge you will probably be considered liable and the cost of repair will be lower than the increase in insurance a claim would cause, you should settle outside insurance without admitting any responsibility or liability.

kbell

If you were pulling out as she is claiming, then surely any damage would be on your/her front quarter (wing, bumper etc..) and not just the mirrors?
She's an arse.

Tigger

She was going to drive off. Get the money for a Main dealer repair off her in cash or let the insurance deal with it

JustAThought

Staplor wrote: »

I was involved in a bigger collision a few years ago. He was stopped at a T junction turning onto the main road where I was, he drove into my car. He admitted driving into the side of my car, but would not admit liability. Gardai drove by, stopped, couldn't believe your man, down to the station for a report. Anyway, I put it through the insurance as your man was just being a dick about it.

You owe this woman nothing, the way she's behaving I'd go straight through the insurance.

Absolutely +1 to that. Plus she has proven herself to be such a weasel already that you can be sure she will try to prick around with you again - probably has a list of claims or penalty points against her name . She was driving dangerously & erratically & at speed. She hit your car & drove off. She tried to palm you off with e50. Then realising she couldn't fob you off with e50 she lied, refused to give her details & you had to get the gaurds involved. And then you had to call them back! do you think a woman like this can be trusted? You are the stationary parked car in this & are the victim. She is playing the age old trick of intimidate the victim & try to weasel off & lie your way out of it. Go through the insurance - refuse to accept a morsel of responsibility. Go back and take photos if you didn't already of the road width, parking lication & where she came from, speedlimit /yield signs etc. And hand it all & the gaurd report details to the insurance.remember her insurance is on her side & will want to not pay. They are not judge judy.

Btw if the shops or houses there have cctv bring a usb today & ask them for a copy of their files for that time - say it was a car hit & run. That will seal it for her.

I had to get my wing mirror and casing done for similar reasons a few years ago (8 or so) and the mirror glass cost e60, the casing & mechanism for the mirror cost e200 and then there were parts & labour , the two morning off work to pick it up & drop it off & two taxi fares. That was without a motor mechanism nor indicator light.

Make sure you put all your out of pocket costs down including time on a per diem basis, phone calls/admin etc. And if you have a pain in your arm/hand or neck from the impact go to a doctor & log it. I didn't - I assumed it was just my hand being wrenched on the parked steering wheel from the impact - 6 months on and 3 days a week of physio - ruptured disc in my neck & 5 years of intermittant pain & hand numbness & problems. I wish I'd persued it through his insurance instead Of off my noclaims . Big mistake.

Don't trust this woman for a moment . She has given every waening sign she is a scammer.
Btw she is right not to avcept liability under the terms of my insurance my first page tells me not to accept liability ir my insurance is invalid;but there us a way to do this that does not include hit& run-ing, lying, inventing scenarios that did not happen, & p****** offpolucemen & trying to scam the victim & fob them off with e50 when they are offering compassion. Insurance company 100% on this on. She can't be trusted.

Deub

That's where I am happy to have bought a dashcam. It is 50 euros well spent.

It could happen to only touch the mirror if you were pulling out just a bit. I am not saying you did it but it is story she may use for the insurance.
What would happen in this case? Could they decide you are both 50% responsible and increase both your premiums ?

EagererBeaver

JustAThought wrote: »

And if you have a pain in your arm/hand or neck from the impact go to a doctor & log it. I didn't - I assumed it was just my hand being wrenched on the parked steering wheel from the impact - 6 months on and 3 days a week of physio - ruptured disc in my neck & 5 years of intermittant pain & hand numbness & problems. I wish I'd persued it through his insurance instead Of off my noclaims . Big mistake.

She clipped a wing mirror - advocation of claiming for any sort of personal injury is nonsense.

JustAThought

EagererBeaver wrote: »

She clipped a wing mirror - advocation of claiming for any sort of personal injury is nonsense.

If someone had told me that the pain in my hand & neck disc problems would last over 11 years and would end up with me being told by consultants that thenbest best was to have the nerve the disc was lodged into permanently frozen I would have acted a lot differently. Assuming a pain is a natural consequence of a hit & run and that it will just be sore for a week or two because of the speed of the impact is very different to what ended up happening to me. No bruises in the hand, no burst skin - I assumed it was just wrenched from holding the wheel tightly as I Was hit ( I saw him coming) . Had I known then what I learned the hard way I would never have claimed off my insurance or gone back to the police sooner who had come & taken a report from me the day I was hit. The side of my car was also caved in. As it was I am left permanently damaged . The car was fixed. Not all car crash injuries are fake - even those that do not show up on the insurance claims. I wish someone - including My insurance agent had told me to wait & not settle up the following day - or to visit a doctor the following week & see if I was still nursing a hurt hand them - apparently it was obvious to everyone but me that my hand injury was a neck injury. The OP was in the car at the time of impact - God knows if s/he may have been injured too & not even realise it yet.

eoinzy2000

JustAThought wrote: »

If someone had told me that the pain in my hand & neck disc problems would last over 11 years and would end up with me being told by consultants that thenbest best was to have the nerve the disc was lodged into permanently frozen I would have acted a lot differently. Assuming a pain is a natural consequence of a hit & run and that it will just be sore for a week or two because of the speed of the impact is very different to what ended up happening to me. No bruises in the hand, no burst skin - I assumed it was just wrenched from holding the wheel tightly as I Was hit ( I saw him coming) . Had I known then what I learned the hard way I would never have claimed off my insurance or gone back to the police sooner who had come & taken a report from me the day I was hit. The side of my car was also caved in. As it was I am left permanently damaged . The car was fixed. Not all car crash injuries are fake - even those that do not show up on the insurance claims. I wish someone - including My insurance agent had told me to wait & not settle up the following day - or to visit a doctor the following week & see if I was still nursing a hurt hand them - apparently it was obvious to everyone but me that my hand injury was a neck injury. The OP was in the car at the time of impact - God knows if s/he may have been injured too & not even realise it yet.

This is a clipped wing mirror for god sakes. Stop bloody pushing a PI agenda please. Sheesh. Start your own topic if you like. It is not a thread for your crash

EagererBeaver

JustAThought, the incident you describe is completely different. The side of your car was caved in. This is a bit of broken plastic on a wing mirror.

M3CS

brightspark wrote: »

She is actually correct in not admitting liability, most insurance companies specify that you should never admit liability.

I wasn't aware of that. Would her repeated offers to pay for the damage not be considered an admission of liability by the insurance companies?

I went to the bodyshop this morning but they're closed until Monday so I'll have to wait until then to get an estimate.

EagererBeaver

M3CS wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that. Would her repeated offers to pay for the damage not be considered an admission of liability by the insurance companies?

I went to the bodyshop this morning but they're closed until Monday so I'll have to wait until then to get an estimate.

Insurer would tell you that is not up to her to admit liability. Brother is in situation where he has written acknowledgement of liability from other party and insurer saying it's irrelevant. Certainly useful for any appeal or subsequent legal action but not binding on the insurer in the first instance

Steve

JustAThought wrote: »

If someone had told me that the pain in my hand & neck disc problems would last over 11 years and would end up with me being told by consultants that thenbest best was to have the nerve the disc was lodged into permanently frozen I would have acted a lot differently. Assuming a pain is a natural consequence of a hit & run and that it will just be sore for a week or two because of the speed of the impact is very different to what ended up happening to me. No bruises in the hand, no burst skin - I assumed it was just wrenched from holding the wheel tightly as I Was hit ( I saw him coming) . Had I known then what I learned the hard way I would never have claimed off my insurance or gone back to the police sooner who had come & taken a report from me the day I was hit. The side of my car was also caved in. As it was I am left permanently damaged . The car was fixed. Not all car crash injuries are fake - even those that do not show up on the insurance claims. I wish someone - including My insurance agent had told me to wait & not settle up the following day - or to visit a doctor the following week & see if I was still nursing a hurt hand them - apparently it was obvious to everyone but me that my hand injury was a neck injury. The OP was in the car at the time of impact - God knows if s/he may have been injured too & not even realise it yet.

We all need to thank people like you for high insurance premiums.

Thanks.