Dublin Bus drivers not following up on invalid reading of leap/social welfare cards

Wrex

Before I write this, i do appreciate Dublin Bus drivers have a difficult job dealing with members of the public sometimes.

However, as someone who pays my way to use the transport system, like most, i do get annoyed when the drivers on a regular occurrence let someone onto the bus when a leap/socialwelfare card gives an invalid bleep on the ticket reader. Now, could be an innocent reason for that, such as a bad reading of the card, but a lot of the time they are not asked to rescan, and simply continue onto the bus. It is starting to make a mockery of the whole system

Like i said, this happens multiple times a day, and needs addressing. Does anyone else notice the same?

LeinsterDub

Different card types make different beeps perhaps you're confusing them for invalid and secondly the drivers job is to drive not revenue protection. Dwell times are high enough without the driver chasing down auld Mary to scan properly or Jonho and his cancelled card

Wrex

As i am on the bus on a daily basis, i know the difference with the bleeps. I would also agree the primary job is to drive the bus, but a basic rule surely is to at least verbally challenge someone who's card doesn't read properly?

Perhaps im being pedantic, but im seeing it day in day out, and just one of those annoyances that you pick up on the boring commute to and from work!

AlekSmart

Wrex wrote: »

As i am on the bus on a daily basis, i know the difference with the bleeps. I would also agree the primary job is to drive the bus, but a basic rule surely is to at least verbally challenge someone who's card doesn't read properly?

Perhaps im being pedantic, but im seeing it day in day out, and just one of those annoyances that you pick up on the boring commute to and from work!

Hardly pedantic at all !

The drivers responsibility,is to ensure as far as is practicable,and to the best of their ability,that each passenger is in possession of a ticket,pass or instrument for travel.

It is the Passengers responsibility to be in possession of the Correct ticket/pass for the journey they are making.

With c.2,500 individual drivers operating across a range of route types,I would suggest that challenging/requesting a retry is somewhat more prevalent than you might think.

I would agree that such a practice should be 100% of the time,but reality often intrudes.
At the end of the day,a failed scan could leave the card/pass holder liable for a Standard Fare.

It should,of course,be borne in mind that the Smart Card Validator and the Ticket Machine Customer display,will also show the Invalid/Blocked Message to the holder,for their attention.....;)

ted1

Wrex wrote: »

Before I write this, i do appreciate Dublin Bus drivers have a difficult job dealing with members of the public sometimes.

However, as someone who pays my way to use the transport system, like most, i do get annoyed when the drivers on a regular occurrence let someone onto the bus when a leap/socialwelfare card gives an invalid bleep on the ticket reader. Now, could be an innocent reason for that, such as a bad reading of the card, but a lot of the time they are not asked to rescan, and simply continue onto the bus. It is starting to make a mockery of the whole system

Like i said, this happens multiple times a day, and needs addressing. Does anyone else notice the same?

Would you prefer to have regular delays as driver stops and deals with each instance?

Wrex

ted1 wrote: »

Would you prefer to have regular delays as driver stops and deals with each instance?

Well the answer to that is no, and if you are inferring that would be the result of correctly monitoring the ticket system, then thats a problem i think someone should resolve. I mean if people are happy enough for a few to board a bus without correctly validating the journey, to make the ride home quicker for them, then so be it.

XPS_Zero

Are you honestly hearing a clear invalid signal frequently?

Are you sure?
I've noticed a lot of people online, on radio etc talking about public transport tend to have either insanely unlikely anecdotes ("75% of the 6am train was full with FT users") or honest mistakes (like people mistaking school pass cards for FT cards or claiming they know qyz FT users a fraudster cos 'looks like nothing's wrong with him')

Hearing all this has made me very skeptical of such observations

As someone else said above the beeps for different cards are different. I use the bus daily and Ve only seen one situation where they let somone skirt by after a negative beep and it's this:

Many seniors or disabled don't tag the card properly either because of mental issues in latter case or lack of familiarity with cards in the former. For instance they try to SWIPE or WAVE the card instead of following the bullseye and PLACING it and holding it still. With LEAP customers I see them telling people the right way to do it but they often don't bother with the FT pass for two reasons:

1. There's no fare deduction so it's not as important
2. Many bus users but especially disabled passengers who may be going to PT jobs or just some regular activity are known by face or name to regulator drivers on that root and they see no need to check knowing they're already in possession of valid passes


I can't imagine it happening so regularly as you imagine but if it is it's not really the drivers job. There are frequent revenue protection checks on DB now (I've been checked 6 times in the last 4 months) and they'll find any untagged or invalid FT or LEAP

Dyr

ted1 wrote: »

Would you prefer to have regular delays as driver stops and deals with each instance?

Harsh reality is that our drivers tend to pick and choose when they'll do their job.

The ne'er do well type might be ignored as discretion is the better of valour in a dublin bus employees mind but you, me and sean citizen will be pulled up on invalid scans.

emroid

Headphones.
So many people wear them on the bus, no point calling them back if they cant hear you.
If driver is out of cab and gets assaulted they will not get paid while out of work, so who here would risk it?
Sneaking on at center doors can happen so ticket checkers wont blame the driver.
Driver can be occupied with dealing with passenger with drivers ticket machine, wont always see/hear whats happening with the ticket validator.
If passenger caught without valid ticket its their problem not the drivers,

Xterminator

I think the drivers primary responsibility is to drive the bus from a to b in a reasonable time.

Querying valid tickets, ensuring passengers don't overstay on tickets etc, are a secondary part of the role, that at least in part conflict with the smooth operation of the bus.

What the buses should have is more revenue enforcement teams (like the luas) where passengers who travel on tickets can be challanged, but not at the expense of the fare paying passenegers getting to their destination on time.

Laying the 'blame' at the drivers door is lasy, its the company policy and enforcement policy that needs improving.

PS im not a bus driver

Sam Russell

Xterminator wrote: »

I think the drivers primary responsibility is to drive the bus from a to b in a reasonable time.

Querying valid tickets, ensuring passengers don't overstay on tickets etc, are a secondary part of the role, that at least in part conflict with the smooth operation of the bus.

What the buses should have is more revenue enforcement teams (like the luas) where passengers who travel on tickets can be challanged, but not at the expense of the fare paying passenegers getting to their destination on time.

Laying the 'blame' at the drivers door is lasy, its the company policy and enforcement policy that needs improving.

PS im not a bus driver

They used to have revenue protection officers on every bus. I think they called the Conductors. The buses moved much faster as dwell times were very short. There were opening at the back of buses then that allowed the brave and foolhardy get on or off the bus while it was moving.

XPS_Zero

Is it actually in the drivers contracts to check period tickets that use the right hand machine?

Do they tell drivers in training and before they sign up that revenue protection is part of the job?

Gatling

So to add to this what would happen if a driver was found to be allowing people board the bus and travel without payment of either card payment or cash

emroid

Gatling wrote: »

So to add to this what would happen if a driver was found to be allowing people board the bus and travel without payment of either card payment or cash

They would be fired. How would they know you ask? There are plan clothes inspectors.

DB know it is not possible for a driver at a busy stop with dozens of passengers getting on and off for the driver see if every single person is validating a ticket or sneaking on the middle doors.
So drivers are cut a little slack

ED E

If a driver is bothered, theyre bothered.

Ive been on a bus where a passenger paid a single stage fare, when one stage later they didnt get off the bus stopped and the driver used the intercom. After a 3 minute standoff the passenger came down and sheepishly paid the remaining fare (full route). Yes that bus was three minutes behind but at the same time 60 odd people were steered strongly away from trying it on the next day.

If users know they'll never be called out they'll chance it, but after a few public embarrassments everyone plays by the rules. A bit of pride in the work they do by the drivers is all thats needed.

Voipjunkie

Wrex wrote: »

Before I write this, i do appreciate Dublin Bus drivers have a difficult job dealing with members of the public sometimes.

However, as someone who pays my way to use the transport system, like most, i do get annoyed when the drivers on a regular occurrence let someone onto the bus when a leap/socialwelfare card gives an invalid bleep on the ticket reader. Now, could be an innocent reason for that, such as a bad reading of the card, but a lot of the time they are not asked to rescan, and simply continue onto the bus. It is starting to make a mockery of the whole system

Like i said, this happens multiple times a day, and needs addressing. Does anyone else notice the same?

An awful lot of the beeping is caused by people waving the card at the reader rather than touching, it reads on one of the passes and subsequent passes the machine rejects as an attempt to scan multiple times, the driver gets a message, already read on the driver's machine, so no need to call the person back.

Voipjunkie

Gatling wrote: »

So to add to this what would happen if a driver was found to be allowing people board the bus and travel without payment of either card payment or cash

It depends on the circumstances, one person who the driver believes is genuine, for example, didn't have credit, lost their purse etc is entirely permissable as common sense, driver deliberately not collecting fares would be a breach of contract and put them liable to be disciplined up to being fired.

Xterminator

ED E wrote: »

If users know they'll never be called out they'll chance it, but after a few public embarrassments everyone plays by the rules. A bit of pride in the work they do by the drivers is all thats needed.

the kind of person who misuses a pass, or deliberately underpays will not be deterred by public shaming.

if you have no shame you cannot be shamed. DB needs to enforce the rules with visible revenue enforcers.

XPS_Zero

They do.

There's inspectors all over the. busses now

DB drivers recognise a lot of regulars especially pass users so don't need to check