Building a 3 bay cattle shed

DonAndy1

Lads, looking for some advice
I have a 3 bay single slatted shed open at front
I want to build a shed a mirror image to close it all in and am tight for space and budget, I've around 10k to spend to complete job.
Was thinking of straw bedded
What size pens would be ideal for say 6 suckers/ 8 Weanlings etc
Centre passage what size would ye leave it, 14" enough
Am tight on space and thought a 14"/16" front to back pen would be big enough per pen so would have the shed 47"x16"x14"
What's yer thoughts or advice
I have a digger and was toying with slats, but been told straw is better job

lakill Farm

47 x 20 x 15ft I got quoted €3550 incl vat for delivered complete kit shed

add barriers , walls and a floor




for €10k you wount get shed and a tank

but you might get a tank and build pens on top of it for €10k

Mental simmental

Hi. I'm looking to build. A 3bay slatted single open like your but With a lay back area. Wat was your cost. Of that build.. Sorry I'm no help.

Who2

Mental simmental wrote: »

Hi. I'm looking to build. A 3bay slatted single open like your but With a lay back area. Wat was your cost. Of that build.. Sorry I'm no help.

you'll be looking at around 24k plus vat, and you wont be going too flashy at that. And prices are getting dearer.

blue5000

DonAndy1 wrote: »

Lads, looking for some advice
I have a 3 bay single slatted shed open at front
I want to build a shed a mirror image to close it all in and am tight for space and budget, I've around 10k to spend to complete job.
Was thinking of straw bedded
What size pens would be ideal for say 6 suckers/ 8 Weanlings etc
Centre passage what size would ye leave it, 14" enough
Am tight on space and thought a 14"/16" front to back pen would be big enough per pen so would have the shed 47"x16"x14"
What's yer thoughts or advice
I have a digger and was toying with slats, but been told straw is better job

I think you'll need a deeper pen than 14-16 feet. Have a 3 bay straw bedded shed here for finishing bulls, pens are about 22 feet deep and 6 or 7 bulls in each pen is enough.

Cows would need a lot of straw too. Have you your own straw? If not, just do the tank and uprights and do the roof when you have the cash. Wider the better for the passage.

Bass Reeves

There is a new TAMS supposed to open in April. It may include sheds. If you move fast you could borrow some of the cheap farm money and between that and the 10K would allow you to put up a 3 bay slatted. Straw bedded is a disaster. No point in penning it if slats. Had 14' straw needs pens before could Motorsports straw in them and it will build up fast. Seepage all over the place. Most successful straw bedded sheds are very deep often 30' deep and at a lower level to the fed passage with an exit for seepage.

larrymiller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is a new TAMS supposed to open in April. It may include sheds. If you move fast you could borrow some of the cheap farm money and between that and the 10K would allow you to put up a 3 bay slatted. Straw bedded is a disaster. No point in penning it if slats. Had 14' straw needs pens before could Motorsports straw in them and it will build up fast. Seepage all over the place. Most successful straw bedded sheds are very deep often 30' deep and at a lower level to the fed passage with an exit for seepage.

Cheap loans don't cover new buildings or am I mistaken?

Bass Reeves

larrymiller wrote: »

Cheap loans don't cover new buildings or am I mistaken?

Many a loan was described as something else, stocking loan, farm expansion etc

larrymiller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Many a loan was described as something else, stocking loan, farm expansion etc

True but if he's going for the grant he will be applying for the full amount as a bridging loan and repaying the 60% from the grant.

I've been trying to figure it out as I want to do the same

benjydagg

Correct.
I met with nice ladies from the bank last week. If I had a large bill outstanding with a merchant, couldn't pay my tax, and a herd of cows, I could get €150,000. Unfortunately, I manage to pay all my bills taxes etc as I go along. So I can't get money to repay existing, or invest in breeding stock, or build. I was happy to be refused.

If you can't afford to borrow money at 5%, then you can't afford to borrow at 2.95%.... simples

larrymiller wrote: »

Cheap loans don't cover new buildings or am I mistaken?

benjydagg

I'd advise anyone here thinking of applying for a TAMS2 grant, ESPECIALLY a 60% grant to read the terms and conditions first.

Secondly, read the terms and conditions,
and then,

read the terms and conditions. Then get advice.

It is very easy to inadvertently end up with a penalty, examples being:

• a receipt has the wrong address on it,
• concrete was poured before notifying the dept of intention to do so
• steel is not CE certified
• safety course has not been completed
• land registration details incorrect
• payments to contractors and suppliers not shown as coming out of the same account as the grant is assigned to.

Lads built sheds in 2007, put in for the grant, and then the government of the day ran out of money. So the grant was paid, partially in 2007 and 2008 with some guys eventually getting the remainder in 2009.


Some defaulted on their commitments to the bank, ended up selling their stock, and leasing out the sheds.



Bridging loan money can be over 10% APR.



Everyone's situation is different. Don't take my advice, I am speaking as a farmer with 24 years personal experience. I'm only speaking my mind.


I spoke to a farmer last week who is awaiting approval for a 6 bay single sided shed. 2.5m external feed passage. Costings as per the dept website are approx €60,000 plus VAT. He has been quoted in excess of €70,000. His builder has told him that concrete is going up in price 15% next month.

Pure hearsay.
So, the farmer wants to buy the concrete at today's price, and get it delivered in April.
If he were to do that, he will be showing that he started the works prior to approval.
THAT MEANS ZERO GRANT when it comes to claiming his grant.

larrymiller wrote: »

True but if he's going for the grant he will be applying for the full amount as a bridging loan and repaying the 60% from the grant.

I've been trying to figure it out as I want to do the same

Bass Reeves

[quote=larrymiller;102740835

True but if he's going for the grant he will be applying for the full amount as a bridging loan and repaying the 60% from the grant.

I've been trying to figure it out as I want to do the same[/quote]

He has 10k he needs 25-28 to build shed. Apply for 20K for whatever you are allowed to apply for. Repayments are about 300/ month over 6 years. Build shed I have not calculated the grant amount allowed on such a shed. But lets assume that such a shed is costing 28k vat included. Vat will amount to about 3.4-3.6k. .Again we will assume that you get your costings spot on and build shed for grant costing ( This is only an example so I am assuming that grants costings are 23.5k) Now you shed is build and you have reclaimed you Grant of 9700 euro.

You now have a choice pay back part of cheap farm loan with grant, vat reclaim and unused capital 9.7k+3.5k +2k= 15.2k and leave residual loan of about 5K leaving repayments of 75/ month or splash out on a holidays of a lifetime to the Bahamas. Reading between the lines other than repayments capacity smaller loans will not get the scrunity that larger loans will get. Smaller loans will be those sub 20-30k.

Also you should realise that penning etc is not compulsory. For instance technically you need not side sheet shed for grant purposes, .Horizontal piping will do as feed barriers, Timbers at the bottom as Long as any grant reciept have treated timber on them. Drinking trough if you did not pen it could be a single plastic trough outside feed barriers. You read the grant spec and fulfill minimum requirements

larrymiller

benjydagg wrote: »

I'd advise anyone here thinking of applying for a TAMS2 grant, ESPECIALLY a 60% grant to read the terms and conditions first.

Secondly, read the terms and conditions,
and then,

read the terms and conditions. Then get advice.

It is very easy to inadvertently end up with a penalty, examples being:

• a receipt has the wrong address on it,
• concrete was poured before notifying the dept of intention to do so
• steel is not CE certified
• safety course has not been completed
• land registration details incorrect
• payments to contractors and suppliers not shown as coming out of the same account as the grant is assigned to.

Lads built sheds in 2007, put in for the grant, and then the government of the day ran out of money. So the grant was paid, partially in 2007 and 2008 with some guys eventually getting the remainder in 2009.


Some defaulted on their commitments to the bank, ended up selling their stock, and leasing out the sheds.



Bridging loan money can be over 10% APR.



Everyone's situation is different. Don't take my advice, I am speaking as a farmer with 24 years personal experience. I'm only speaking my mind.


I spoke to a farmer last week who is awaiting approval for a 6 bay single sided shed. 2.5m external feed passage. Costings as per the dept website are approx €60,000 plus VAT. He has been quoted in excess of €70,000. His builder has told him that concrete is going up in price 15% next month.

Pure hearsay.
So, the farmer wants to buy the concrete at today's price, and get it delivered in April.
If he were to do that, he will be showing that he started the works prior to approval.
THAT MEANS ZERO GRANT when it comes to claiming his grant.

That's a fair statement. Thank fully my advisor is doing a good job as he's pointed most of the above bar the saftey course. Do you have any more info on that.

Also a lot of talk of the new road in Wexford driving up the price 2-3€ a metre

Who2

I got letters from different concrete suppliers last week. 7.5% and 10% increase in all concrete as of the first of this and next month respectively.

larrymiller

Who2 wrote: »

I got letters from different concrete suppliers last week. 7.5% and 10% increase in all concrete as of the first of this and next month respectively.

And I doubt the department will up there quoted for the grants

Bass Reeves

The one good thing nowadys is you have to cost the proposal at application stage yourself. This means that you should understand costings and what is the max grant you will get. Department costings are in place from the start of any scheme so you cost off those costings.

Heard a lot of sob stories about the 2007 scheme. Build a 400 sq meter shed with 16' slatted unit in one half and straw bedded area in other half, cattle crush in it, silage slab 12mX 22m for 42-45k net of grant. Was one of those lads that needed bridging but had it in place at 4% got caught by stage payment but no issue with bank. I think the department paid 5%/ anum on outstaning amounts. In general if lads were charge 10% they were working off overdraft facility.

benjydagg

start here...
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmerschemespayments/tams/

benjydagg wrote: »

I'd advise anyone here thinking of applying for a TAMS2 grant, ESPECIALLY a 60% grant to read the terms and conditions first.

Secondly, read the terms and conditions,
and then,

read the terms and conditions. Then get advice.

It is very easy to inadvertently end up with a penalty, examples being:

• a receipt has the wrong address on it,
• concrete was poured before notifying the dept of intention to do so
• steel is not CE certified
• safety course has not been completed
• land registration details incorrect
• payments to contractors and suppliers not shown as coming out of the same account as the grant is assigned to.

Lads built sheds in 2007, put in for the grant, and then the government of the day ran out of money. So the grant was paid, partially in 2007 and 2008 with some guys eventually getting the remainder in 2009.


Some defaulted on their commitments to the bank, ended up selling their stock, and leasing out the sheds.



Bridging loan money can be over 10% APR.



Everyone's situation is different. Don't take my advice, I am speaking as a farmer with 24 years personal experience. I'm only speaking my mind.


I spoke to a farmer last week who is awaiting approval for a 6 bay single sided shed. 2.5m external feed passage. Costings as per the dept website are approx €60,000 plus VAT. He has been quoted in excess of €70,000. His builder has told him that concrete is going up in price 15% next month.

Pure hearsay.
So, the farmer wants to buy the concrete at today's price, and get it delivered in April.
If he were to do that, he will be showing that he started the works prior to approval.
THAT MEANS ZERO GRANT when it comes to claiming his grant.

benjydagg

HSA details.

www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/farmbuildingspecifications/pdfversions/Health_Safety_FormAF1.pdf

benjydagg

SAFETY COURSE DETAILS


9. Farm Safety Training Course

It shall be mandatory that all applicants will have completed within the last five years prior to the date of application or the submission of their claim for payment the half day Farm Safety Code of Practice (given by Teagasc or other trained persons) or have completed the FETAC Level 6 Advanced Certificate in Agriculture (Green Cert). In the case of a Registered Farm Partnership or a Company the course must have been completed by the young farmer. In the case of an application from two eligible young farmers in a registered farm partnership only one of the applicants needs to have completed the course. Your claim for payment will not be processed until evidence of completion of the course is provided.

DonAndy1

thanks lads for all the advice.
unfortunately il not be going for the grant as the land is in my fathers name, other sheds built over the years with no planning etc.
to much cost to get all that straightened out yet.
am probably going to go with the 3 bay dry shed, have a good fall on it ad catch effluent and pipe it to the existing slatted shed.
realistically il only ever use 2 bays at most for stock.
quoted for shed - 47x20x14 €3800 & VAT full kit shed.
il do the concrete, blocks myself so should be in a good position to get finished under the 10k, and have some over for sundries!!!

foxy farmer

Just out of curiosity how are Dept recommending the standing of H iron?
In hole filled with concrete
Bolted down using expanding bolts
Holding down bolts set in concrete beforehand.

DonAndy1

hoping to put in a mass concrete pad under each H-Iron, bolt them down with expanding bolts

lakill Farm

DonAndy1 wrote: »

thanks lads for all the advice.
unfortunately il not be going for the grant as the land is in my fathers name, other sheds built over the years with no planning etc.
to much cost to get all that straightened out yet.
am probably going to go with the 3 bay dry shed, have a good fall on it ad catch effluent and pipe it to the existing slatted shed.
realistically il only ever use 2 bays at most for stock.
quoted for shed - 47x20x14 €3800 & VAT full kit shed.
il do the concrete, blocks myself so should be in a good position to get finished under the 10k, and have some over for sundries!!!

im getting the same size shed , all bolts gutters and delivered for €3,550 incl vat delivered

4 bay will be €4800 so seeing can I squeeze that into a corner

SCORE

DonAndy1

Iakill, that sounds good deal, wouldnt mind getting their number? PM?
the quote i got above was "3800 & VAT, give or take a couple of hundred". was going to get them to erect too, and a cash price....

Dunedin

Can you claim vat back on calving cameras?

farawaygrass

Dunedin wrote: »

Can you claim vat back on calving cameras?

You can indeed

DonAndy1

yes you can, as its a fixed item.
i purhcased one last year form a company in tullamore, excellent service and the camera is ideal for calving :-):D