Tiny House Community in Co. Dublin

tinycodublin

Hi all!

I would like to build a tiny house on wheels in the nearest future. The plan is to find a suitable piece of land somewhere in Co. Dublin and adapt it to the tiny house dwelling needs (preferably on grid).

My aim is to co-create a tiny house community with like minded people who would like to share the land where each person would have their own private space (tiny house, mobile home etc.), but with a community area in the center of the development where many facilities and resources could be shared with others.

I would love feedback and suggestions, of what you may be looking for in a tiny home community!

Any suggestions, legal advice and information on the topic much appreciated.

If you share my passion for tiny living, don't hesitate to contact me.

Wishing you all the best,
Marta

johnnyskeleton

Sounds like a great idea. It would be tricky to get the land but if you can it would be a great sustainable way to live

Graces7

tinycodublin wrote: »

Hi all!

I would like to build a tiny house on wheels in the nearest future. The plan is to find a suitable piece of land somewhere in Co. Dublin and adapt it to the tiny house dwelling needs (preferably on grid).

My aim is to co-create a tiny house community with like minded people who would like to share the land where each person would have their own private space (tiny house, mobile home etc.), but with a community area in the center of the development where many facilities and resources could be shared with others.

I would love feedback and suggestions, of what you may be looking for in a tiny home community!

Any suggestions, legal advice and information on the topic much appreciated.

If you share my passion for tiny living, don't hesitate to contact me.

Wishing you all the best,
Marta

Good for you showing initiative. All good wishes. This does well in eg the States.

Have you seen eg this?

http://www.thevillage.ie/

tinycodublin

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I would love the tiny house movement to be alive and vibrant in this country too
Best regards, Marta

tinycodublin

tinycodublin wrote: »

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I would love the tiny house movement to be alive and vibrant in this country too
Best regards, Marta

Hi,

saw this earlier today, thought you might enjoy it.

http://www.countryliving.com/real-estate/a35461/bestie-row/?src=socialflowFB

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Graces7

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No; it is a living community not just incidental residents who do not know each other.

The Tiny House Movement is well known in the States and Canada. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_house_movement

A way forward for many and the community aspect gives security and likemindedness.

Nothing like anything we have here and not like travellers.

Victor

Most, if not all city / county development plans will insist on larger-sized properties.

You will need to comply with building regulations and BER standards.

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Lumen

Graces7 wrote: »

Nothing like anything we have here and not like travellers.

What are tiny house wheels for if not for tiny house travelling?

4068ac1elhodqr

1st stop is your local Librarararary (physical or virtual):



This movement is very different from your average 'trailer park' type traditional communities, the focus is on innovation, and even commercial offshoots such as glamping or product export. Popular with younger folks not adhering to any strong cultural stereotypes.

It's best suited to more 'temperate' climates however. Saying that, newer developments such as 'nano-tech Hydrophobic waterproofing' and graphene steel foams - point to the future, even single membranes such as Voormi's clothing ranges are pretty revolutionary. Not sure but there may be some planning exceptions if the 'building' has wheels, the real problem is sourcing land.

Not to take anything away from the more 'culturally-set' traditional nomadic and Amish types, they'll probably find any 'global force majeure events' nothing more than a 'slight inconvenience'.

PhoenixParker

I'd say the first stop is the local planning office to see if they're open to the idea and if so what their key priorities are. You may have to try a few councils to find one open to the idea.

Tiny houses won't meet building regs so there'll need to be some sort of exception or work around.

Senecio

Lumen wrote: »

What are tiny house wheels for if not for tiny house travelling?

Simply a means to get around planning permission.

Senecio

..

L1011

Lumen wrote: »

What are tiny house wheels for if not for tiny house travelling?

Evading building regulations. These don't meet any level of safety requirements for starters.

El Tarangu

I have some awareness of the tiny house movement, but am not very knowledgeable on the specifics.

Question: which would be more sustainable - a lot of freestanding tiny houses, or an apartment block that has been to high standard (well-insulated, passive design, etc)?

Genuine question, not having a go; I am just thinking that if you were trying to keep a number of stand-alone tiny houses heated during the winter, they might not be very sustainable in the end...

Victor

Senecio wrote: »

Simply a means to get around planning permission.

That's a misunderstanding of planning permission. PP is required for change of use of land. The most visible change of use is the construction of buildings.

This sounds like dreamer land.

Senecio

Victor wrote: »

That's a misunderstanding of planning permission. PP is required for change of use of land. The most visible change of use is the construction of buildings.

This sounds like dreamer land.

My comment was more in relation to Canada and the US where the movement has taken off. Different planning rules.

Mrs OBumble

Graces7 wrote: »

No; it is a living community not just incidental residents who do not know each other.

The Tiny House Movement is well known in the States and Canada. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_house_movement

A way forward for many and the community aspect gives security and likemindedness.

Nothing like anything we have here and not like travellers.

Are ypu aware of any research about the medium to long term impact of tiny-house living on mental health?

I can see it being fine for a while - but what happens if you have a fight with your partner and nowhere to go to cool off?

Conceivably it could cause a family feud, even.

Some research in the area would be good to see before lobbying for a planning exemption.

looksee

I suppose you could have a communal tiny sulking room with a sofa-bed for use as required?

El Tarangu

Op - if you are willing to relocate, what about the eco-village in Cloughjordan?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cloughjordan-inside-ireland-s-only-ecovillage-1.2462135

Not exactly the same thing as you are proposing, but they possibly already encountered some of the same planning issues, etc. that you might come across, so

Lumen

Senecio wrote: »

Simply a means to get around planning permission.

L1011 wrote: »

Evading building regulations. These don't meet any level of safety requirements for starters.

Victor wrote: »

That's a misunderstanding of planning permission. PP is required for change of use of land. The most visible change of use is the construction of buildings.

This sounds like dreamer land.

Senecio wrote: »

My comment was more in relation to Canada and the US where the movement has taken off. Different planning rules.

I agree with Victor. I don't know a better definition of a caravan than "a tiny house with wheels", and AFAIK the only exempted development for caravans is quite limited.

S.I. No. 600/2001 - Planning and Development Regulations, 2001 wrote:

Exempted Development — Rural
Limited use of camping
CLASS 1
Temporary use of any land for the placing of any tent, campervan or caravan or for the mooring of any boat, barge or other vessel used for the purpose of camping.

Conditions and limitations:

1. Not more than one tent, campervan or caravan shall be placed within 100 metres of another tent, campervan or caravan at any time.

2. No tent, campervan, caravan or vessel shall remain on the land for a period greater than 10 days.

3. No tent, campervan, caravan or vessel shall be used for the storage, display, advertisement or sale of goods or for the purposes of any business.

4. No tent, campervan or caravan shall be placed on land within 50 metres of any public road unless the land is enclosed by a wall, bank or hedge, or any combination thereof, having an average height of not less than 1.5 metres.

Graces7

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Are ypu aware of any research about the medium to long term impact of tiny-house living on mental health?

I can see it being fine for a while - but what happens if you have a fight with your partner and nowhere to go to cool off?

Conceivably it could cause a family feud, even.

Some research in the area would be good to see before lobbying for a planning exemption.

Disagree. Mature folk who live like this are very aware.
It is not for everyone; but those who choose.
Not being mooted as an alternative to social housing.

See the original post?

"My aim is to co-create a tiny house community with like minded people who would like to share the land where each person would have their own private space (tiny house, mobile home etc.), but with a community area in the center of the development where many facilities and resources could be shared with others."

Graces7

Lumen wrote: »

I agree with Victor. I don't know a better definition of a caravan than "a tiny house with wheels", and AFAIK the only exempted development for caravans is quite limited.

Maybe look at the photos on the web sites? "Tiny houses"come in many designs and are not caravans.

Lumen

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe look at the photos on the web sites? "Tiny houses"come in many designs and are not caravans.

What distinguishes them from caravans?

Graces7

Lumen wrote: »

What distinguishes them from caravans?

let google images explain that.

https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=tiny+house+&*

and in the US and Canada it is part of the "downsizing" movement.

As much the intention and philosophy anything else. Emphasis on tiny; so no huge trailers.

Would love one..Really would.

Family in the US and Canada know these well. Great idea and were I younger and in good health would choose that.

Lumen

Graces7 wrote: »

let google images explain that.

It really doesn't. I see caravans.

Graces7 wrote: »

As much the intention and philosophy anything else.

Unfortunately, and to the severe detriment of our creative spirits, we live in a world regulated by law, not philosophy (albeit the two are not unrelated), so how things are constructed and classified matters.

Is the "movement" in Ireland intending to comply with, change, or ignore the law?

Graces7

Lumen wrote: »

It really doesn't. I see caravans.


Unfortunately, and to the severe detriment of our creative spirits, we live in a world regulated by law, not philosophy (albeit the two are not unrelated), so how things are constructed and classified matters.

Is the "movement" in Ireland intending to comply with, change, or ignore the law?

Need to see it from the point of view of a whole movement with a different terminology.. "tiny home" is a broad definition. More than caravans

Your last para. I think that that is what the OP is asking about. It is a valid question that of course needs sorting fully.

There was a url given of the "intentional eco-community:" they will have faced the same issues, as have the Hollies down in West Cork who I knew well. Similar breakaways from the established norms.

http://thehollies.ie/

Some folk call the Hollies folk "middle aged hippies" but I always found them kind and helpful. Certainly different, as are the Tiny Home folk .

tanit

L1011 wrote: »

Evading building regulations. These don't meet any level of safety requirements for starters.

As far as I know every single company in Ireland offering tiny houses fully comply with all safety regulations and go beyond of what is required. I don't know if there are "tiny house cowboys" but the companies I know they use the latest materials and the latest building techniques more than complying with regulations. And it's the same outside Ireland.

The majority of these builds in fact can very easily become passive houses that don't need heating. They are also highly energy efficient and can become energy independent. Along with using rainwater caching methods to reduce carbon footprint. A tiny house uses the latest techniques and the latest safety regulations.

This an example of a house with the latest in insulation and energy efficiency
And this an example of a mobile home with obviously less features but I wouldn't be surprise if it can easily be arranged for it to become a passive house as well as the levels of insulation are already very high

I'm not related in any way with this company it is one of the websites I have researched when toying with the idea of maybe one day going for a tiny house

The fact they are tiny is what I believe causes the mistake. Most people would think about travellers and the like and the reality is that the only common point with a traveller's house is that some of these houses can be on wheels and that's it

Regarding what Mrs Bumble was saying about long term effect of living in such enclosed space the reality is that these houses are not that small some of them have at least a separate bedroom space from a main living area and lots of them they have a second guest room. The idea is to get rid of all the dead space we have in some houses nowadays. This movement started in America where houses are massive and most people wouldn't need a space that big to live on. In Ireland and Europe your average house is not that big but most people would agree that if they get rid of a bunch of junk they don't need, they can easily move to a smaller space and have the same or better quality life and save in energy/heating costs not to speak of the time savings cleaning the space and the psychological effects (I'm not talking of hoarders but your average 90% of mortals)

PS I belong to the big group of people that would need to get rid of a bunch of crap I keep around the place

Lumen

If these tiny houses on wheels are indeed compliant with building regs, warm, safe, comfortable and economical, it seems like the people in Ireland who would benefit from them the most are members of the traveling community.

Milly33

All the negativity about these Tiny Houses.. I agree they are not for everyone, but they are a great idea.. People have become obsessed with having to own a house, and it has to be huge.. Why not go back to having a functional house.. Each room should be used as it is suppose to be.

"Are ypu aware of any research about the medium to long term impact of tiny-house living on mental health?"

I think this is more of a problem with big houses, at least with a small house you get out more.. A house really is for shelter not to spend all your days in...

Have you had any luck with this OP... Really interested in this idea, although i was think of a double decker bus conversion.. No where to doing anything about it now but i have started off a book as such with ideas and joined a few sites.. Would be really interested in any updates...

athtrasna

The OP asked about County Dublin. Land is too valuable in the area imo for something like this to work even if the planners were amenable.

tanit

Lumen wrote: »

If these tiny houses on wheels are indeed compliant with building regs, warm, safe, comfortable and economical, it seems like the people in Ireland who would benefit from them the most are members of the traveling community.

Like with many things in life is a question about knowing. To be honest it took me quite some time to find proper companies in Ireland doing this stuff as most of the resources I found were American or UK based. The tiny house movement in Ireland is at a very early stage.

The point Athtrasna is making about land is very good. So long as you don't have property land in Co. Dublin chances of getting something for a reasonable price would be very, very low

newacc2015

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Are ypu aware of any research about the medium to long term impact of tiny-house living on mental health?

I can see it being fine for a while - but what happens if you have a fight with your partner and nowhere to go to cool off?

Conceivably it could cause a family feud, even.

Some research in the area would be good to see before lobbying for a planning exemption.

Well for starters we know commuting long distances has a massive negative impact on mental health, yet planners have no issues giving out planning to build houses "within commuting distance of Dublin" aka you will be driving 90 mins each way to do. I find if my commute is longer than 45mins each way, it stressing me out. 90 mins would put me and most people on edge

Tiny Houses are generally without mortgages. I think a lot of peoples mental health be a lot better if they were not worrying about paying the mortgage, rent etc. I think if you asked the tens of thousands who are living in a negative equity, poor quality apartment struggling to pay a mortgage to a vulture fund each month whether they think it is a superior way to live than a tiny houses as they have a room to go to over a dispute... I would hazard a lot of relationship issues are due to financial commitments and long distance commuting, both of which can be addressed with a tiny house.

OP if most councils wont allow studio apartments, I cant see them allowing a tiny house. They will be losing out on the massive fees they get on new builds, I say probably no LPT and the construction industry will be lobbying over safety concerns

I dont think a tiny house or micro-apartments are the future. Not everyone wants to spend €180k for a one bedroom apartment, that they just about sleep in.

In some states they give tiny houses to homeless people and in places like Utah, where they solved chronic homelessness. They reduced chronic homeless by 91%. But with the vested interests from the homeless 'charities' who receive €70-80k for each emergency bed per year. We are going to hear, that tiny houses are unsuitable for homeless people...

http://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how

Milly33

I know it isnt a tiny house but to show what can be done http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/seven-shipping-containers-become-a-family-home-1.2983804

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Having looked at attempts at this in the US, I can't see Dublin Corporation allowing a trailer park development. Because, dress them up as you wish, they are caravans or mobile homes.

Victor

Milly33 wrote: »

I know it isnt a tiny house but to show what can be done http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/seven-shipping-containers-become-a-family-home-1.2983804

:rolleyes:

Seven 30-foot(?) shipping containers is about 156m2 - almost twice the size of a typical house.

Correction, based on the planning permission it is 185m2, including basement, so more than twice the size of a typical house. The shipping containers appear to be non-standard length and/or were cut to length.

Note they have a basement in a known flood zone.

Arcade_Tryer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

At some stage we need to accept not everyone wants to live in 55sq meter unaffordable one bedroom apartment

I'd love to live in a hovel/bedsit or whatever you want to call it anywhere close to Dublin city centre i.e. within a mile. But my betters in DCC say I don't really want to.

newacc2015

Lyla Clean Campus wrote: »

Having looked at attempts at this in the US, I can't see Dublin Corporation allowing a trailer park development. Because, dress them up as you wish, they are caravans or mobile homes.

Do you know 20m Americans live in trailers? They are actually high quality in the US and would be more common here, if there was not so much stigma over living in a trailer here.

What is so wrong with living in a trailer or mobile home? It is an affordable form of housing for 20m Americans. Housing is super cheap in a lot cities, but people prefer to live in trailers.

Most people and I would like to live in somewhat affordable housing. That is not an option with the building regs as is. I dont see why we can't give people alternative means to live in

Mrs OBumble

newacc2015 wrote: »

Do you know 20m Americans live in trailers? They are actually high quality in the US and would be more common here, if there was not so much stigma over living in a trailer here.

What is so wrong with living in a trailer or mobile home? It is an affordable form of housing for 20m Americans.

Ahh, I think you'll find that America has the same stigma attached to "trailer-trash" that Ireland has to certain sectors of its community.

Tiny-house enthusiasts are attempting to portray their preferred housing as different to this - but really it's looking much the same to many of us.


What I'm taking from this thread is that there are lots of opinions, but little research about the long-term effects.


I can see the merits in arguments either way: one of the issues with bedsits is that they encourage excessive drinking because people go to the pub a lot and use it as their living room. But they are affordable, and reduce commuting a lot.

JustAThought

They look very cute under a snowcapped mountain in Canada or with the decking & outdoor BBQ by a lake in the US - but the grim reality of coming 'home' to a bedsit portacabin & living with smelly boots & wet sweating clothes & damp towels nowhere to dry them or hang them would quickly run the novelty thin. As would tramping through a field to communal laundrettes or living on a mezzanine with no headspace listening to the endless whumpf of a diswasher below your feet, or having your bedclothes continiously stink of garlic or mince or parmesan.

Of course the biggest winner with this would be the councils - I can already see the que of locals outside the planning door waving their twenty euro notes to have their opposition to the cars, caravan site & ehem 'travellers'. Its all very well in Canada, but NIMBY. Particularly as these things usually work in clusters - once you start you're suddenly in a hub or have set a legal precedent for others. I can hear the horses hooves from here.

Victor

Not tiny houses, but mobile homes:

https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/835181290597072900

Note that they are mostly in the warmer areas.

Milly33

No they dont... What is wrong with living in a trailer or mobile home.. It does'nt mean you are trash... I know my own aunt lives in a trailer park in US and they certainly are'nt trash.. It is the mentality here, if it is'nt bricks and mortar then it is'nt a house... T

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Milly33

Yep I could!!

newacc2015

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A Caravan is not comparable to a mobile home. A mobile home has running water, electricity, sewage etc. In America, they have driveways, decks etc. They are designed to be lived in unlike a caravan which is what you said only used for a brief period during the year

Millions live in mobile home in hurricane states, so I can imagine what it is like in the odd storm we have a year versus sometimes dozens of hurricanes per year in Florida

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alastair

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That's a caravan or a motorcaravan.
Mobile homes are, as the name suggests; mobile. But they are generally just moved to a site and remain there for their lifetime. They're connected to mains electricity/water and usually have a septic tank.

The distinction between potentially mobile, but static tiny houses and mobile homes is generally down to three issues; customisation to specific needs/tastes, location, and (no doubt about it) snobbery. Tiny houses are, in the main, a middle-class enterprise, while mobile homes are more of a blue collar thing.

The whole NZ house truck scene is interesting, given they've a similar climate to here, but probably too close to U.K. new age traveler arrangements to appeal to the local tiny house scene. https://www.facebook.com/nzhousetrucks/