Proving oneself in the new workplace

Ron86

Hi all! I started a new job (office based) a few months ago and although it is much less toxic than the previous one, I still find myself coping with a few things that seem to annoy me a bit and I'd like to ask your feedback.

First thing I'd like to point out is that I'm not Irish. I've been living here for three years and this is my second job in Ireland, so the root cause of my so-called complaint may definitely be a cultural difference. Secondly, in the country where I'm coming from, things are very different than here in two ways - one that I find positive and one that I find negative.

The positive aspect - people here are much more polite. It's a fact. Even if they hate your guts, the chances that they will tell this to you are extremely low. They might want to show you by bullying you through social exclusion (extreme and rare cases) or some very indirect discreet ways, but they will still be polite with you.

The negative aspect - many, way too many people (I'm only talking based on my humble experience) are very reserved at the beginning with the newcomers. It may take weeks, up to months, up to maybe even years before they warm up. While in the place where I'm from, they will either give you a chance from the beginning or they won't give you a chance at all.

The main problem with this new job is that several people never showed the courtesy of saying at least "hi, how are you" or by doing any small talk. It's not just with me, it's with everyone new, regardless of how presentable and approachable they are. And that's fair enough, in fact they don't owe anything to me. But this cold shoulder they are giving - to me looks like a very indirect message saying "You need to prove yourself! You need to prove you're trustworthy first and then maybe we'll share a smile, a small chat or who knows, maybe even two!".

I need to admit I very much dislike this as I find it a bit disrespectful and shows quite a bit of ignorance or lack of self-awareness! I'm on a position that requires some very high level qualifications - not writing this to brag at all, but just to give you a picture that I'm in a role that must be handled seriously and as a result, I am handling it seriously, otherwise I would've never been hired.

Recently, two of these reserved colleagues of mine have started to do some small talk! Most people in my shoes would be very happy to see they finally warmed up. Well, I'm not. I would've been two years ago, but not anymore. I will be very honest by admitting that I felt offended by not being given a chance from the beginning or being shown some courtesy instead of being ignored (I know, it wasn't done with a specific purpose). And because I felt offended, I feel absolute no reason in bonding with them now, because I see this "you proved yourself, you deserve my smile now" as pretty patronizing.

Some of you may tell me I was a spoiled child. Some others will tell me I need to grow up. And some others will tell me that they may be shy, or may have been through a rough time, or that I may have seem a threat since I'm younger than them and already very qualified. Well none of these is applicable, but I wouldn't rule out the last one. Regardless of the reason, I got fed up in these past few years by trying to earn everyone's trust and respect and I got to the point where I mentally have no energy left to do it and therefore my ego says "**** them! If they didn't give you a chance from the beginning, they don't deserve your chance now". I know it's not right what I'm saying, but that's how I feel.

In the end, I never expected them to open up to me from the beginning and tell me any of their personal details. God no! But I would've expected the minimum courtesy of at least "how are you settling in?" I know, at least, I've always made that effort with the new people in my previous workplaces, knowing how awkward the first few days must've been for them.

So, dear locals, I'd really love to hear a few insights and get an idea of how would you receive this if you were in my shoes.

Sorry for the long text and I really appreciate the time some of you might've taken to read all of this!

Cheers!

jimmycrackcorm

Ron86 wrote:

. I will be very honest by admitting that I felt offended by not being given a chance from the beginning or being shown some courtesy instead of being ignored (I know, it wasn't done with a specific purpose). And because I felt offended, I feel absolute no reason in bonding with them now, because I see this "you proved yourself, you deserve my smile now" as pretty patronizing.

I get the impression that your colleagues might not be the root of your problem. I think you have an expectation that they should look up to your for your position.

campo

Please don't pick me up as rude but is it possible it is you and not them, what I mean by that is are you giving off a aura that says don't talk to me etc.

Now while I agree it some office spaces in can take a couple of weeks before others start to warm to you (kind of like a feeling out process that is normal I think) but it would be unusual for it to go on for longer than that

Steve

In any new situation you need to make an effort to 'gel' with the existing workforce.

No offence but your post is describing Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang.

pilly

How long are you working there?

Apologies, I see you said you're there a few months. But yet further on you say you're fed up for the past few years so maybe you've brought some past resentments into the new job and this can show.

I agree it takes a bit of time to make friends with Irish people but once you do you will find that they are very loyal.

I would find it strange that they didn't make small talk at the beginning though. Did they never say good morning or whatever?

RockSalto

Alarm bells, Ron. This quote coupled with the fact you've had issues in the past. I don't think the problem is everyone else.

Recently, two of these reserved colleagues of mine have started to do some small talk! Most people in my shoes would be very happy to see they finally warmed up. Well, I'm not. I would've been two years ago, but not anymore. I will be very honest by admitting that I felt offended by not being given a chance from the beginning or being shown some courtesy instead of being ignored (I know, it wasn't done with a specific purpose). And because I felt offended, I feel absolute no reason in bonding with them now, because I see this "you proved yourself, you deserve my smile now" as pretty patronizing.

Ron86

@Campo: Not rude at all, I actually thought about the same thing, that I may be unapproachable and that puts them off in a way, but then I just wonder why many others are being very nice to me and they even invited me for lunch. I'm sure the main thing is that one cannot be liked by everyone, but again, not showing that courtesy I was talking about in the original post rather reflects on them than me, just saying.

@Steve: In many workplaces in Ireland, from what I've heard from the others, it takes two for a dance and often those who've been in the office in a while make an effort too. Based on what you're saying my understanding is I need to make the effort and that's it. If that's true, I hope we'll never work together in a workplace

@Pilly: You're very right, I might've brought some past resentments into the new office. As regards your second line, you're not the first person saying that to me. I saw that myself at the previous job and after two years, I ended up with a few amazing friends. But it took two years! I love the Irish people, I love being friends with them, but taking years to prove you're trustworthy is just too much honestly! As regards your last line, no, they didn't. Probably I should've mentioned that there are about 35 people, out of which 25-28 approximately are very fine, and some of these are extremely polite (both Irish and non-Irish), one of whom even invited me over the weekend to go with them t Belfast, which was very nice. So it's definitely not about all of them, I guess I should just expect that in any workplace, the bigger the number of the staff is, the higher is the probability that I wouldn't get on with everyone.

@Johnnythunders: That quote coupled with the fact that I had issues in the past are two different things and you've missed the point. But thanks for your time anyway.

cml387

In my experience, the people who were really friendly and talkative from day one in the new job are to be avoided at all costs.
It's those you gel with after being there for six months are your real friends.

pilly

Ron86 wrote: »

@Campo: Not rude at all, I actually thought about the same thing, that I may be unapproachable and that puts them off in a way, but then I just wonder why many others are being very nice to me and they even invited me for lunch. I'm sure the main thing is that one cannot be liked by everyone, but again, not showing that courtesy I was talking about in the original post rather reflects on them than me, just saying.

@Steve: In many workplaces in Ireland, from what I've heard from the others, it takes two for a dance and often those who've been in the office in a while make an effort too. Based on what you're saying my understanding is I need to make the effort and that's it. If that's true, I hope we'll never work together in a workplace

@Pilly: You're very right, I might've brought some past resentments into the new office. As regards your second line, you're not the first person saying that to me. I saw that myself at the previous job and after two years, I ended up with a few amazing friends. But it took two years! I love the Irish people, I love being friends with them, but taking years to prove you're trustworthy is just too much honestly! As regards your last line, no, they didn't. Probably I should've mentioned that there are about 35 people, out of which 25-28 approximately are very fine, and some of these are extremely polite (both Irish and non-Irish), one of whom even invited me over the weekend to go with them t Belfast, which was very nice. So it's definitely not about all of them, I guess I should just expect that in any workplace, the bigger the number of the staff is, the higher is the probability that I wouldn't get on with everyone.

@Johnnythunders: That quote coupled with the fact that I had issues in the past are two different things and you've missed the point. But thanks for your time anyway.

So it's only really 7-10 people who weren't friendly? I wouldn't worry so, some people are naturally stand offish towards new people and then some are just rude. With those kind of people all you can do is be polite and civil. You can't be friends with everyone in a work place either. Always going to be those you don't get on with.

seamus

So as others have said, what I'm getting here is that you're expecting some level of deference and acknowledgement from all colleagues because of the job that you do. Irish people don't really do deference and bootlicking. That's more of an American thing.

But this cold shoulder they are giving - to me looks like a very indirect message saying "You need to prove yourself! You need to prove you're trustworthy first and then maybe we'll share a smile, a small chat or who knows, maybe even two!".

I need to admit I very much dislike this as I find it a bit disrespectful and shows quite a bit of ignorance or lack of self-awareness!

These two sentences are funny together.
Because realistically I think you're the one with the lack of self-awareness. That is, some people just don't talk that much, and don't have that much interest in talking. In Ireland, lots of people have no interest in the office politics. No interest in chit-chatting or ingratiating themselves with colleagues, and certainly no interest in becoming buddies. They want to go to work, do work and go home, with the minimal amount of smalltalk possible. And Irish culture allows them to do this; there's no social pressure to put on a facade and pretend you want to know all about your new colleague. It's neither rude nor disrespectful to not want to strike up a conversation with someone.

The reason they're talking to you after a few months is because they know you've been there a while now and they feel more comfortable talking to you; they don't have to go through the absurd "getting to know you" dance.

CreepingDeath

Ron86 wrote: »

The negative aspect - many, way too many people (I'm only talking based on my humble experience) are very reserved at the beginning with the newcomers.

There could be a whole load of reasons for this.

1. Some people are naturally reserved and forcing themselves to talk to new people whom they have no obvious common interests is socially awkward for them.

2. There may be a constant stream of new employees and the existing staff are busy people who are happy maintaining a limited number of close friends.

3. If you are a negative person, complaining all the time about things or specific people, nobody wants to listen to that. People are attracted socially to positive, open people.

4. People tend to socialize with their own peers, same age, culture, people with kids tend to form informal parent support groups. People who go out every Friday with their colleagues tend to bond fairly well ( Irish drinking culture )

But expecting others to make the first move all the time won't work socially.

Also, by any chance are most of the people who appear "reserved" of the opposite sex ?

pilly

I know I'll probably get slated for this but another point is that if this is an IT environment a lot of IT people are naturally introverted.

Steve

Ron86 wrote: »

@Steve: In many workplaces in Ireland, from what I've heard from the others, it takes two for a dance and often those who've been in the office in a while make an effort too. Based on what you're saying my understanding is I need to make the effort and that's it. If that's true, I hope we'll never work together in a workplace

I spent a lot of my working life installing equipment all over the world.

Every time I arrived somewhere, first priority was to get the local guys on-side. So yes the initial onus is on you to make the effort, not them. That is, if you want to succeed.

Friends come and go, enemies accumulate.

Ron86

Pilly - your comment made me laugh a bit, I don't think you'll get slated for what you said. But I do agree with you, many of those environments are quite introverted. Not my cause though. Regarding the other comment of yours, yes, there are probably around 7-10 people who wouldn't be friendly from me mainly because they are just reserved to the new people. I do have the feeling some of them just don't know what to say to me and they prefer to say nothing, but at least they aren't impolite, wish I could appreciate this more.

Seamus - I agree with you up to a point. You're saying "some people just don't talk that much, and don't have that much interest in talking. In Ireland, lots of people have no interest in the office politics. No interest in chit-chatting or ingratiating themselves with colleagues, and certainly no interest in becoming buddies.", which is true, I wouldn't rule this out. Except that these individuals I'm mentioning about are a lot into endless chats with people they are familiar with and are excluding from their conversations the people that are not familiar or DON't want to be familiar with. That's what's pissing me off. While this paragraph "The reason they're talking to you after a few months is because they know you've been there a while now and they feel more comfortable talking to you; they don't have to go through the absurd "getting to know you" dance." is a very interesting point of view and I never really thought about it. Thanks for giving me a different angle


Thanks all for your feedback. To be honest, I was expecting at least a few rude replies, but I'm glad it wasn't the case.

Ron86

@Creeping Death -

1. You're absolutely right.
2. Very good perspective, need to think about it.
3. Not negative at all, I'm actually the opposite.
4. Probably, it depends on the circumstances/culture etc.

No, they aren't particularly reserved in the opposite sex. If it was the case, I wouldn't bother to struggle more

TimeToShine

Go on the beer with them and all of your problems will be solved.

Ron86

It's been a month ever since and things are all good now. While a few of those people still opened up, others have, while the rest of them are even friendlier. It is much more obvious to me that many people are just too shy and don't feel comfortable opening up to people they never met. It wasn't about me, it wasn't anything personal, it was just the easiest way for them to be more reserved at the beginning.

Guess I just took the whole thing personally because the whole vibe brought back a few feelings from a very toxic old workplace and for a few days I couldn't distinguish between bullies (those who are bullying by social exclusion and silent treatment) and reserved people.

Thank you all.

cml387

Ron86 wrote: »

It's been a month ever since and things are all good now. While a few of those people still opened up, others have, while the rest of them are even friendlier. It is much more obvious to me that many people are just too shy and don't feel comfortable opening up to people they never met. It wasn't about me, it wasn't anything personal, it was just the easiest way for them to be more reserved at the beginning.

Guess I just took the whole thing personally because the whole vibe brought back a few feelings from a very toxic old workplace and for a few days I couldn't distinguish between bullies (those who are bullying by social exclusion and silent treatment) and reserved people.

Thank you all.

Thanks very much for updating us. Delighted that things are working out.