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Information and independent crash assessor wanted

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  • 23-02-2017 2:38pm
    #1
    quintus
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭


    In a three car pile up my partner was the car in the middle. The insurance company of the young person that ploughed into the rear of her are trying to imply, that because most of the damage appears to be on the front of the car my partner was driving, that she is to blame.
    What they and their assessor have not taken into consideration is the following. The car that hit her from behind was 230kg heavier then her car, it is also fitted with a massive solid steel reinforcement bar under the plastic bumper cover. My partner had come to a complete stop behind the car in front. The car in front is a massive 294kg heavier then my partners car. The car my partner was driving has an entire weight of 995 kg and has NO solid steel reinforcement bar running the entire width of it's front, It has a specially designed crumple zone that did exactly what it was suppose to do in the event of a crash. Picture this... A stationary, light small car (995kg) being struck from behind at an undetermined speed by a car weighing 1185kg fitted with a massive reinforced front bumper. This propels the smaller lighter car forward (Kinetic energy... every action has an equal and opposite reaction) forcing it to collide with a car that is also stationary, and weighing in at 1249 kg and fitted with a massive impact repelling bumper also, with a solid steel reinforcement bar. This is what caused all the damage.
    Is it possible anyone could give me information about where i can contact an independent crash assessor to review this.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #3
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Moved to the Insurance forum - hopefully they can help you


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    #4
    quintus
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭quintus


    Thank you. I was unsure where to post.


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    #5
    quintus
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭quintus


    She refuses to admit liability (she is not in the wrong here) and if she goes through her own insurance her premium will sky rocket when her insurance comes up for renewal.


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    #6
    dev100
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭dev100


    quintus wrote:
    She refuses to admit liability (she is not in the wrong here) and if she goes through her own insurance her premium will sky rocket when her insurance comes up for renewal.

    Once she s been in an accident they will load until issue is resolved ultimately if the guy behind her caused her to hit the car in front then it's their responsibility ....


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    #7
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    in a 3 car collision where the person ran into the back of 2 stationary cars, They are considered liable regardless of what they say or admit.

    The insurance company for the first claims of the insurance of the second car, whose insurance then claims all costs from the third cars insurance, But there is no liability attached to the second car even though a claim was made as it was passed on to the third car who was ultimately at fault for running into the back of anyone.

    This is the it is supposed to work and it's how it worked when my car was the piggy in the middle, and my insurance wasn't affected at all, still full no claims and no price increase.

    But make sure she talks to her insurance to ensure they pass the liability to the last car.


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    #9
    quintus
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭quintus


    In the event of something like this isn't it the responsibility of the crash assessor to gather information from the "Events Data Recorder" on all three cars to determine what happened. i.e which car suddenly came to a stop, which car was suddenly shunted into motion after coming to a complete stop, the speed of the car when it collided with the rear of my girlfriends car etc. The Event data recorders are invaluable in situations like this when the only witnesses are the driver themselves. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.


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    #10
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    quintus wrote: »
    In the event of something like this isn't it the responsibility of the crash assessor to gather information from the "Events Data Recorder" on all three cars to determine what happened. i.e which car suddenly came to a stop, which car was suddenly shunted into motion after coming to a complete stop, the speed of the car when it collided with the rear of my girlfriends car etc. The Event data recorders are invaluable in situations like this when the only witnesses are the driver themselves. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

    I have never heard of anything like that been used myself in a car crash and I dont believe i have ever owned a car that has a data recorder other than fault codes.
    It's hard enough to even get insurance companies to accept dash cam footage in a crash.

    I


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    #11
    quintus
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭quintus


    Skatedude wrote: »
    I have never heard of anything like that been used myself in a car crash and I dont believe i have ever owned a car that has a data recorder other than fault codes.
    It's hard enough to even get insurance companies to accept dash cam footage in a crash.

    I

    Interesting that my subscription to this thread was ended after I mentioned retrieving information from the event data recorder (EDR) from my partners car, and the car that careered into her from the rear.
    I'm going to SOOO enjoy seeing our solicitor tear that half baked assessor apart in court. This half baked assessor (I will not mention names) must use the "Crystal ball" method to determine cause when the only witnesses are the drivers themselves. One would hope there isn't any illegal goings on here.


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    #12
    ronaneire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭ronaneire


    quintus wrote: »
    Interesting that my subscription to this thread was ended after I mentioned retrieving information from the event data recorder (EDR) from my partners car, and the car that careered into her from the rear.
    I'm going to SOOO enjoy seeing our solicitor tear that half baked assessor apart in court. This half baked assessor (I will not mention names) must use the "Crystal ball" method to determine cause when the only witnesses are the drivers themselves. One would hope there isn't any illegal goings on here.

    What are you on about?


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    #13
    mrsbeebee
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭mrsbeebee


    Your partner needs to get onto her insurer and let them argue on her behalf. It would probably be cheaper in the long run than appointing your own solicitors and assessor (who would charge a hefty stand by fee for court on top of everything else). Chances are if the car at the back is denying full liability then their insurer will get onto hers anyway. It would generally be the case that liability hangs on what the person at the top of the chain states - how many impacts did they feel? One - it's more than likely that the guy at the back shunted your missus into the car in front. Two - it's more than likely that your missus hit the car in front first and the guy behind her pushed her in again. There is no data or accessible data obtainable from the ecu as you suggest. You can get mileage from some keys alright but nothing like you're looking for. Unless all 3 cars were exceptionally high spec. Maybe talk to a main dealer about it. And let us know if they can get anything - I'd be very interested.


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    #14
    quintus
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭quintus


    mrsbeebee wrote: »
    Your partner needs to get onto her insurer and let them argue on her behalf. It would probably be cheaper in the long run than appointing your own solicitors and assessor (who would charge a hefty stand by fee for court on top of everything else). Chances are if the car at the back is denying full liability then their insurer will get onto hers anyway. It would generally be the case that liability hangs on what the person at the top of the chain states - how many impacts did they feel? One - it's more than likely that the guy at the back shunted your missus into the car in front. Two - it's more than likely that your missus hit the car in front first and the guy behind her pushed her in again. There is no data or accessible data obtainable from the ecu as you suggest. You can get mileage from some keys alright but nothing like you're looking for. Unless all 3 cars were exceptionally high spec. Maybe talk to a main dealer about it. And let us know if they can get anything - I'd be very interested.

    The car at the back has accepted reliability and according to my partners insurance company the occupant of the car in front claimed they heard only one bang. The solicitor is involved for the accident claim, because my partner genuinely hurt her back and her chest, she is in constant pain since. Meanwhile the insurance company of the person who hit her are dragging their heels.
    The car is a right off and right now my partner and I have to rent a car (That we can ill-afford) because the insurance company withdrew the courtesy car x number of days after the accident. My partner has had her life turned up side down for NO reason, she was just driving to work doing every thing right and then some young person driving with out due car and attention slammed into the back of her and caused all this. ( when quizzed about whether the young person at the back had a full licence, they refused to answer. We can draw our own conclusions from that. )
    The least you would expect from her insurance company would be an attempt to put her life back to the way it was before the accident.. They are obligated to do this.
    I have been doing my research and in the case of Zero witnesses the information from the Event Data Recorder (EDR) is invaluable and an assessor working for an insurance company CAN NOT make an accurate assessment of the happening with out it. It will show the speed of the car behind, it will show my partner came to a full stop before she was shunted into the car in front among other things. All three models of the cars involved are fitted with an Event Data Recorder, so to say that they can't supply the information, is FALSE.


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    #15
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    quintus wrote: »
    I have been doing my research and in the case of Zero witnesses the information from the Event Data Recorder (EDR) is invaluable and an assessor working for an insurance company CAN NOT make an accurate assessment of the happening with out it. It will show the speed of the car behind, it will show my partner came to a full stop before she was shunted into the car in front among other things. All three models of the cars involved are fitted with an Event Data Recorder, so to say that they can't supply the information, is FALSE.

    Many people have offered the accident data collection/storing of newer cars as a reason why insurers don't want to insure older cars anymore. Be interesting to see how this pans out for you quintus. I'm skeptical myself tbh.


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    #16
    quintus
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭quintus


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Many people have offered the accident data collection/storing of newer cars as a reason why insurers don't want to insure older cars anymore. Be interesting to see how this pans out for you quintus. I'm skeptical myself tbh.

    Exactly. ALL cars these days have this EDR. In fact ALL insurance companies rely on it to prove their case. In this instance the information would NOT be to their advantage so according to them it's not important. Any assessment without it would be pure speculation and inadmissible in court.


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    #17
    mrsbeebee
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭mrsbeebee


    No. They don't. Believe me. But as I said, let us know how it goes for you.


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    #18
    notharrypotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    ALL cars these days have this EDR.
    Can you post a link of all cars which are so equipped.

    I am curious to see it.


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    #19
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #20
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    quintus wrote: »
    Exactly. ALL cars these days have this EDR. In fact ALL insurance companies rely on it to prove their case. In this instance the information would NOT be to their advantage so according to them it's not important. Any assessment without it would be pure speculation and inadmissible in court.

    Were the Gardai called to the scene of the accident?


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