Rudeness from hospital staff member

lively12

I've been taking my very elderly mother every month for a procedure in Dublin hospital for 6 months now. A couple of eye tests are required before procedure and I would go into room with her. I would just sit quietly and help her get glasses out of her handbag etc. - she is getting forgetful recently. There is one of the staff who clearly resents me being there - this week she told me as I was standing up that I had to stay outside - that they were told not to allow anyone into room anymore ( even though I' m a very quiet reserved person who would be the last to interrupt) The test she carries out is an eyechart test - takes all of 5 minutes - the room is spacious and no machines are involved so I don't think I could possibly be a distraction sitting silently. It was her rudeness that shocked me - she spoke to me as if I were a nuisance - never made eye contact.
I accompany my mother to all medical appointments and all I have met encourage me to come in with her due to her age.
I really felt like complaining but I avoid confrontations and would also fear that my mother might suffer if I complain. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Zaph

Moved from Dispute Resolution. Mods, if you think this should be somewhere else please feel free to move it.

milehip

lively12 wrote: »

I've been taking my very elderly mother every month for a procedure in Dublin hospital for 6 months now. A couple of eye tests are required before procedure and I would go into room with her. I would just sit quietly and help her get glasses out of her handbag etc. - she is getting forgetful recently. There is one of the staff who clearly resents me being there - this week she told me as I was standing up that I had to stay outside - that they were told not to allow anyone into room anymore ( even though I' m a very quiet reserved person who would be the last to interrupt) The test she carries out is an eyechart test - takes all of 5 minutes - the room is spacious and no machines are involved so I don't think I could possibly be a distraction sitting silently. It was her rudeness that shocked me - she spoke to me as if I were a nuisance - never made eye contact.
I accompany my mother to all medical appointments and all I have met encourage me to come in with her due to her age.
I really felt like complaining but I avoid confrontations and would also fear that my mother might suffer if I complain. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Sorry to read that,hospitals are stressful enough without that treatment.
Who is this woman exactly is she a nurse or a doctor?
You write that all you met encourage you to accompany your mother I take it these people are hospital staff as well, why not ask them discretely if there is a ruling of only person in the room.
If the answer is no, the next time she asks you to leave just ignore her and stand next to your mother and talk to her busy yourself with the handabg etc,
Let her get exasperated :give the woman enough rope to hang herself, keep a record of all you dealing with this woman if this keps up you may have no choice but to complain.
when you say your mum might suffer I take it you mean in a level of care sense I really don't see his this woman can have any bearing on her getting treatment.

LegacyUser

Take action on this.

I experienced much the same with my elderly mother as she was dying in Beaumont Hosp. She needed to have an insulin injection for Diabetis, and the nurse was rough, impatient, and rude to her. My mother was anxious, and suffering from Alzheimers, and I spoke softly to her to try to calm her.

My mother is from the Connemara Gaeltacht and Irish was our language of communication, so naturally enough I spoke to her in Irish. That particular nurse asked angrily: 'What language is that you're speaking?' as if we were doing something illegal. She was an angry woman in the wrong job. Most others - doctors and nurses - were humane and kind, as is to be expected in that job.

LegacyUser

milehip wrote: »

next time she asks you to leave just ignore her and stand next to your mother and talk to her busy yourself with the handabg etc,
Let her get exasperated :give the woman enough rope to hang herself

Woeful advice, hospital staff have enough to cope with without this sort of nonsense. I would hope that anybody refusing to obey reasonable instructions would be removed by security if they didn't quickly cop on by themselves.

OP, unless there's something more to the incident than you've posted here, I don't see any rudeness in it and I don't see the problem, it's quite normal for people to undergo medical examinations and treatment by themselves while anybody accompanying them waits outside. If there's a genuine need for anyone else to be present, it's normally facilitated by a simple discussion. As to helping your mother get her glasses etc, that can be done before she goes into the room.

Minera

Hi op
I know your nose is out of joint about being put out of the room but there is a possibility that health and safety regulations have either changed or they are bring enforced.
Don't worry about the technician being rude, your opinion will be considered subjective anyway. If you are asked to leave reassure your mother that you are outside the door and tell the technician if you are needed that's where you will be.
Don't take her attitude personally you were just one appointment in a long list that day.

Big Bag of Chips

What you have to understand, OP, is often rules are made to cater for the lowest common denominator. So, even though I'm sure you sit quietly and don't interfere or interrupt, I'm sure there are plenty more people who do interfere during their family member's examinations. The staff member wasn't to know by looking at you that you were one of "the good ones"!! She couldn't let you in to sit quietly and then be seen to stop another person who was maybe a bit more vocal.

If your mam really does need assistance then a quick phone call to her GP's secretary asking for a short note to say she needs you with her should suffice. No need for complaints just yet.

LynnGrace

I agree with Big Bag. Go the polite route, get a note if necessary to state that she needs you to accompany her.

milehip

Guessed wrote: »

Woeful advice, hospital staff have enough to cope with without this sort of nonsense. I would hope that anybody refusing to obey reasonable instructions would be removed by security if they didn't quickly cop on by themselves.

OP, unless there's something more to the incident than you've posted here, I don't see any rudeness in it and I don't see the problem, it's quite normal for people to undergo medical examinations and treatment by themselves while anybody accompanying them waits outside. If there's a genuine need for anyone else to be present, it's normally facilitated by a simple discussion. As to helping your mother get her glasses etc, that can be done before she goes into the room.

That was based on the premise that the ' one person in the room rule' was fallacy and if it so then shes every right to stay with her mother. If. This staff member is making up rules as she goes that's not right and needs to be addressed.
If it indeed a rule the op should obey it

Neyite

I'm not seeing where she was rude? She explained a new policy to you and failed to make eye-contact, but that's not rude. That's being firm and maybe she's equally uncomfortable having to enforce the new rule hence the lack of eye contact.

There are certain appointments where they specifically exclude non-patients from the consult - ante-natal booking appointment for example and certain intimate exams. It's to facilitate getting all the information out of the patient that they might not otherwise share in front of a relative or friend.

In the ante-natal clinics it's to check for anything that might be a flag for domestic violence, or for a patient to be able to freely disclose something that might be relevant to their health care but something they may not want their partner to know -eg a termination or pregnancy in the past. Elder abuse is something that is gaining a lot of awareness so it wouldn't surprise me if appointments for elderly patients began to incorporate this too. In fact, I think it would be a great idea.

With an eye test it could simply be that instead of focusing on the optician or the test and where they are supposed to look, they were finding it difficult if your mother's eyes were drifting to wherever you are standing.

It could be that equipment or stationary supplies were getting stolen while the optician was focused on the patient, or could be to stop people from reading confidential stuff on a desk.

There actually are a lot of good reasons for a patient only policy in the consult, and I would imagine that unless your mother was a lot more incapacitated they will likely stick to their rules. You don't need to be in the room to get her glasses out of her bag. You could get them out before the appointment and hand them over, or you could explain to the optician where they are if needed. If your mother was to get agitated, then they can stop the consult and pop out to get you.

If she was rude, then by all means draft a polite complaint. But if she was simply firm with you and not backing down on a hospital policy, that's not rudeness, just someone doing their job.

lively12

Thanks for taking the time everyone to reply - much appreciated. I' m not sure what her job title would be - she's not a doctor.
All of the other staff have been wonderful and couldn't have been nicer. I didn't go into detail about this particular staff member's behaviour on earlier visits as I didn't want to bore everyone!
As I entered the room on another occasion a couple of months ago she began to close the door and had to stop as I walked in - she pointedly looked at the floor - will not look at me!
When that test is carried out by other staff members they check with me how my mother coped after last procedure among other things - she gets confused as to what went well etc.
Another member of my family knew immediately who I was speaking about when I mentioned what was happening - they spoke about her condescending manner as she dealt with patients. I agree with other posters' comments about huge workloads - I would never criticise over one incident. However she refuses to acknowledge my presence on any occasion.
I am quite timid but I also don't like to be treated with disrespect.

GingerLily

Can you not just ignore it? Is it really worth getting worked up over?

ChewChew

With all due respect, when patients are in a consultation room or treatment room with a medical professional, there are some questions that need to be asked to the patient and the patient can sometimes feel uncomfortable answering said questions when a relative/friend/companion is sitting watching. Sometimes a patient likes to chat to his or her medical professional but doesn't necessarily feel they can as they don't have the privacy that they are being denied.

When a medical professional asks a question like "so, how are you Feeling?" And they say "ah yea, not too bad!" And there's some relative sitting there listening, you can usually tell by their body language, facial expressions that there's something they want to say but won't.

So op, maybe it's something like that that's not a big deal to you but could well be for the other two parties hence a rule that needs to be enforced. Just a thought!!

Big Bag of Chips

So she's not as friendly and welcoming as the other staff members. That's not a crime, or worthy of a complaint. Was your mam distressed or bothered that you couldn't accompany her, or did she get on OK without you? I think any complaint would have to come from the angle that it adversely affected your mother's treatment/test. Not just that she didn't make eye contact and wasn't particularly friendly.

lively12

Thanks again for all advice - it's great to get it.
To fill you in about another visit - we arrived 10 minutes early for appointment yet were told by same lady in a chastising manner as we sat down in waiting room - "Come along Mrs. X, the doctor is waiting" as if we were holding the whole show up. I as usual didn't say anything then but later as Mum was handed over to nurse I said to her I' m sorry but I thought we were in good time. She looked puzzled and told me we'd have another half hour to wait at least for the procedure.
I have always held my tongue - I've been told by friends I need to be more assertive and really feel strongly about this. It's not just for my own benefit - if unpleasant behaviour goes unchallenged it becomes acceptable. I don't think this behaviour is acceptable.

GingerLily

Have you listened to any of the advice OP? Because it doesn't seem like you have.

Big Bag of Chips

Your obviously determinded to make the complaint, so contact the hospital and ask what the complaints procedure is.

lively12

Have listened to all advice - I will take all of it on board and update you all after next visit. I know I'll probably just do nothing but my gut feeling tells me this is one time I should stand up for myself!
I have a sibling who is also working in medical field so I have nothing but admiration for all of you who work in that line. Keep up the good work!

sullivlo

lively12 wrote: »

Thanks again for all advice - it's great to get it.
To fill you in about another visit - we arrived 10 minutes early for appointment yet were told by same lady in a chastising manner as we sat down in waiting room - "Come along Mrs. X, the doctor is waiting" as if we were holding the whole show up. I as usual didn't say anything then but later as Mum was handed over to nurse I said to her I' m sorry but I thought we were in good time. She looked puzzled and told me we'd have another half hour to wait at least for the procedure.
I have always held my tongue - I've been told by friends I need to be more assertive and really feel strongly about this. It's not just for my own benefit - if unpleasant behaviour goes unchallenged it becomes acceptable. I don't think this behaviour is acceptable.

At this stage it sounds like you're looking for reasons to get offended. If I've ever arrived early for an appointment and I've been called in early, I've been delighted! Even if I was told that the doctor was waiting - it's a turn of phrase.

If you want to make a complaint, go ahead. Nobody here can stop you. But for what it's worth it sounds like you're probably slightly over reacting or are being overly sensitive about the entire situation.

Big Bag of Chips

Why did you say to the nurse about being in good time, and not the lady in question? Your next visit is probably going to be similar to all others. She'll be brusque, won't make eye contact and might ask you to stay outside. Does your mother need you in the room? How did she get on the last day without you? If she absolutely needs you in the room get your GP to type up a letter that you can keep in your bag. But be aware that there will be times when you really are not allowed in to the examination room. So maybe ask the GP to specify for eye clinic you must be in attendance (if indeed you must).

lively12

No I have no objection at all to waiting outside - it's at her discretion who to allow into room. It's her intimidating manner that makes me feel like I am a bit of a nuisance to be present even in the waiting room!

lively12

Yes I know I should have said it to her when she told us doctor was waiting but I couldn't plug up the courage! Assertiveness class is what's needed!

njs030

lively12 wrote: »

Yes I know I should have said it to her when she told us doctor was waiting but I couldn't plug up the courage! Assertiveness class is what's needed!

That's just a phrase though. Are you sure you're not taking it all negatively because you don't like this woman?

freshpopcorn

It all depends on how well you mother is to look after herself to be honest.
Does she actually need you in the room? Does she understand the optician/doctor?
Some people are fine and others do need help of their relative in appointments.
The doctors and nurses generally understand this and of course you can meet a dozy nurse/doctor. The stories I could tell you about nurses saying Kitty(my grandmother) would be fine by herself and then all of a sudden she'd fallen or made a mistake because of the nurses attitude. So I can see your concern. This however were in the later years of my grandmothers life.
If she's a bit slow with taking her glasses out of her handbag I don't think they'll mind because ladies of all ages a slow with their hand bags!

retro:electro

Sometimes in life you will come across situations where you have to think to yourself "is this person being rude or am I just easily offended", this is one of those situations. Some people can be a bit rude and snappy but is it really worth a big rigmarole? I'd wager not. As long as she is giving your mother the appropriate care, that's all that matters really.

ongarboy

Hmm..OP, you mention a number of times about your lack of assertiveness. I wonder are you now projecting some past experience where you were treated poorly and weren't assertive enough to challenge it then onto these seemingly harmless current encounters. Finding fault where someone says "doctor is waiting" which most people would accept as a turn of phrase to mean "doctor is ready" shows that you are trying to find offence where none exists. Some people find direct eye contact or making small talk difficult - maybe this lady is one of those people. The fact that she is rigidly following policy that doesn't suit you does not warrant complaint either. You've decided for whatever reason that you don't like this person and are now trying to find fault in every encounter when the rest of us can't see it based on what you'e told us.

JustAThought

OP - I must admit that the busy impersonal 'hurry along you're
holding things up ' attitude of some hospital staff boils my blood - as does the patronising baby primary school baby manner some of them often use. I suspect you have come across one of these - probably one who is so fatigued by the routine or monotony of their role that they have forgotten what it is to have TRUE empathy or consideration beyone operational functionality and busyness.

If you go down to the first floor in Beaumount you will find the patient liasion office and festooned outside it are leaflets for both complaints and advice on how to manage your visits.Interestingly they are in the same leaflet. You will see on this leaflet that if a patient finds it easier they are encouraged to bring someone with them to their hospital visits, for tests or to their consultants visits; particularly if it assists them because they are old, frail, find the hospital environment difficult, overwhelming or confusing, or feel vulnerable without an accompanying friend or family member.

Your staff person might find it helpful to be reminded of this formal hospital policy. Or indeed you ask can who s/he reports to and remind them that you are your mothers patient advocate & as your mom is confused and has memory issues , that you be respected as her accompanying advocate during her visits and consultations to help her manage and underatand her treatment and assist her in dealing with her needs.

IITYWYBMAD

I'm baffled by some of the comments here, really baffled.

I think it's fair to say that the OP is an adult, and has probably had some life experience with people being pleasant/rude. One thing that I've learned over the years is that it's extremely hard to contextualise a situation through the written word. Have you ever written something down, re-read it and thought...that doesn't read as it was? Doesn't have the weight of the situation? I have.

I don't post that often, but this thread has made my blood boil.

Here we have a situation where a lady has asked for advise on how to handle a situation where she does not feel comfortable, and we have had answers ranging from Freudian analysis of projection to accusations of contentiousness. I believe it's a sad reflection on this forum, that an OP cannot ask for advise and be given advise, without the amateur dramatics and pseudo psychology which is all so evident within this thread, and others.

OP, you obviously know what vibes you are getting from this individual, and to me it sounds like you should speak to him/her. My advise, next time your in, would be to ask to speak to the practitioner privately and ask them if there is an issue. Explain to them that you know that they are busy, but you get the feeling that you or your mother are an annoyance each time they arrive. Use examples like you have outlined above, should you be asked for reasons why.

If you do not get answers to your satisfaction, google "Your Service, Your Say" and follow the guidelines you'll find there. While your examples may appear trivial to some, I can fully appreciate that you probably have more on your mind, than dealing with this rude individual and you are more than due compassion and understanding when being dealt with by the HSE.

Ellie2008

Hi OP,

You appear to have issues about your ability to stand-up to people. They are your issues not this woman's. So she's possibly a bit of a wagon, it doesn't appear as if your mother has been very upset or harmed in any way.

My advice - leave it go, your mother who is the most important person here is fine & you don't know what that woman is dealing with.

Life's too short.

Try not to make a medical appointment for your mother about your issues. I mean that very much as constructive criticism.

Ellie2008

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

I'm baffled by some of the comments here, really baffled.

I think it's fair to say that the OP is an adult, and has probably had some life experience with people being pleasant/rude. One thing that I've learned over the years is that it's extremely hard to contextualise a situation through the written word. Have you ever written something down, re-read it and thought...that doesn't read as it was? Doesn't have the weight of the situation? I have.

I don't post that often, but this thread has made my blood boil.

Here we have a situation where a lady has asked for advise on how to handle a situation where she does not feel comfortable, and we have had answers ranging from Freudian analysis of projection to accusations of contentiousness. I believe it's a sad reflection on this forum, that an OP cannot ask for advise and be given advise, without the amateur dramatics and pseudo psychology which is all so evident within this thread, and others.

OP, you obviously know what vibes you are getting from this individual, and to me it sounds like you should speak to him/her. My advise, next time your in, would be to ask to speak to the practitioner privately and ask them if there is an issue. Explain to them that you know that they are busy, but you get the feeling that you or your mother are an annoyance each time they arrive. Use examples like you have outlined above, should you be asked for reasons why.

If you do not get answers to your satisfaction, google "Your Service, Your Say" and follow the guidelines you'll find there. While your examples may appear trivial to some, I can fully appreciate that you probably have more on your mind, than dealing with this rude individual and you are more than due compassion and understanding when being dealt with by the HSE.

Sometimes it's helpful to disagree with someone. If the OP wants to take the woman aside to have a word ok. If she's interested in a formal complaint for something relatively minor, I'd urge her to consider it.

homerjay2005

Bricriu` wrote: »

Take action on this.

I experienced much the same with my elderly mother as she was dying in Beaumont Hosp. She needed to have an insulin injection for Diabetis, and the nurse was rough, impatient, and rude to her. My mother was anxious, and suffering from Alzheimers, and I spoke softly to her to try to calm her.

My mother is from the Connemara Gaeltacht and Irish was our language of communication, so naturally enough I spoke to her in Irish. That particular nurse asked angrily: 'What language is that you're speaking?' as if we were doing something illegal. She was an angry woman in the wrong job. Most others - doctors and nurses - were humane and kind, as is to be expected in that job.

while i sympathise with you on how you were handled, i have the utmost respect for all hospital staff and even more so at this time of the year.

its a thankless, difficult job and sometimes a job that is really really stressful. they are bound to feel that stress now and then and while its not fair on patients, its only human nature that eventually frustrations will show.

rather than making life even more difficult, maybe a gentle word in their ear would be better than "taking action"?

Rubberchikken

in every building in the land there's a person like you describe op. tbh, i'm willing to bet they wouldn't behave like that towards anyone who wouldn't accept that attitude. you, by your own description, are to accepting and quiet and this person has spotted that.

i wouldn't describe their behaviour as rude. i'd describe it as unacceptable.

short of running the test in a tiny cupboard, there is surely space for an adult to accompany another adult, especially an elderly one.
the inability of some people to do their job in a civil and caring manner, particularly in the health industry, is sad.

i think you should accompany your mother if she wants this and if you wish you can make an official complaint. until people speak up in these circumstances, people like this will continue to treat others in this way.