Dispute with apartment management company over plumbing

efwren

Hi,

I am owner and landlord of an apartment. Its about 10 years old.

Every now and then there has been an issue with pipes from the toilet leaking into the basement underneath the apartment. I have had them fixed every time and had to replace/repair flooring etc.

Its now happening again. This time my plumber has assured me that the problem is being caused by the pipes coming into the apartment causing excess pressure. I am not 100% certain of the case yet as I have yet to go and talk in person to him.

Anyhow he is saying that this will occur over and over again as the cause of the issue is external to the apartment, the block management company disagree.

Anybody got any advice on how to resolve this? Obviously I don't want this occurring again and again, its not just about the cost its the hassle for me and the tenants.

Thanks in advance.

Paulw

Sorry ... water pressure coming in is causing a toilet issue?

Is that what you were told?

But, water coming in doesn't go directly to the toilet. Your toilet cistern is filled from your cold tank, which would be filled from the mains. So, I fail to see how the outgoing from the toilet would be pressurised at all. Sounds like a weird excuse from your plumber.

I think you would need a 2nd opinion from another plumber, and get their report in writing.

Irish Water would be responsible for water pressure of incoming water to the building, not the management company.

efwren

Thanks for the reply.

I don't know the full details yet but its somewhere in the bathroom i am meeting the plumber later this week to have a look myself.

newacc2015

When you flush the toilet, does the pump come on? It sounds like the toilet is being fed off the mains, which is it not designed to be

tradesman

What is supposed to be & what is actually in place can sometimes be totally different. I once snagged a house that had hot water plumbed to the toilet cistern! Before anyone says anything .....no it wasn't a bidet! Lol

davo10

Op I had the same problem with an apartment toilet and shower tray a few years ago. Plumber thought it was an issue with pipes and pressure, it wasn't. The toilet and shower tray were sitting on a thin plywood floor. Every time someone stood in the shower or sat on the loo they moved slightly as the ply moved. The seals around the shower tray were constantly coming away from the tiles on wall and the pipes leading to the toilet were constantly moving. A plumber took both out, put a thicker, harder piece of wood on floor and put loo/tray back on top. Presto, no more leaks.

Paulw

tradesman wrote: »

What is supposed to be & what is actually in place can sometimes be totally different. I once snagged a house that had hot water plumbed to the toilet cistern! Before anyone says anything .....no it wasn't a bidet! Lol

Similar happened here, to a few units. A trainee plumber did some of the connections from the hot tank, so the cold tap had hot water, and so did the toilets, etc.

Easy to fix in the end, just changing the tank pipes.

But, that doesn't sound like an issue for the OP.

blacklilly

OP is it the overflow pipe to your system that is leaking into the basement?

jd

Agree with Pault, i shouldn't be coming directly from mains into toilet.
I've heard of people reconnecting appliances (diswater / washing maching) to mains so the pump doesn't go off (not agood idea., I think).

OP, did you buy new or second hand? Possibly the plumbing was reconnected so pump wouldn't operate if someone used the bathroom at night.

efwren

Thanks for all the replies,

Just met with my plumber and the property management company plumber.

Basically the issue is the waste from both toilets comes out of my ground floor apartment and join with the main 4inch waste pipe that is running from the top floor to the basement. At the basement there is a tight 90 degree bend before they continue and are joined by other pipes from other apartments.

My plumbers theory is that at certain times back pressure back up that pipe is causing a leak in the seal at the back of my toilets causing leaks in my property. This is why its an intermittent issue and can happen when there is nobody in the apartment. My apartment is first property back up the chain so to speak.He has also suggested that the 90 degree bend in the pipe is not suitable for the volume of stuff that could go through it.

That back pressure could be caused by a blockage somewhere downwards from my property due to anything really, baby wipes, nappies etc.

This is my plumbers theory.

From the management companies perspective their opinion is that the stack in the basement has been there for several years and hasn't caused issues so there is nothing wrong with the plumbing. They are suggesting that if this problem is caused by back pressure its due to behavioural issues from occupants and there is nothing they can do as in people throwing all manner of stuff down the toilet causing blockages. Its pretty much tough luck that I am going to get the brunt of it all.

ANyhow in summary at the moment I will be repairing the wooden floors again but still left in a place where this could happen again in a few Months time.


It strikes me that this should be a common problem in apartment developments?

the_pen_turner

I wonder would one of those non return valves that are to stop flood water coming back up a pipe work in this situation

I'm guessing that the main sewer pipe out to the public sewer is blocking and filling up. There is a few apartments above you that are filling the pipe up above your level. This create pressure that is finding somewhere to go. Unfortunately you are the weak link and where the release goes.

Could they fit a longer radius bend . The short bend could be creating a problem

efwren

Hi the_pen_turner,

Thats exactly what my plumber thinks and he also is suggesting that the tight bend is not fit for purpose and it needs a longer radius bend. However the property management company are sticking to their line that there is nothing wrong with the plumbing as it has been like that for 10 years with very few issues.

So basically unless I can prove that the tight bend is the cause of the problem they won't fix it. My plumber has suggested getting an engineer to survey it and doing a report on it.

I might look at options for a non return valve.

the_pen_turner

<mod snip :Please send by pm>
link to co seelling non retturn valves.

Lantus

Doesn't make sense. Waste pipes are empty most the time. Even when in use you don't get pressure build ups. It's a gravity system where fluids and solids drain away under gravity.

Back pressure in waste systems is when the water is pulled from the trap when your not flushing by another issue.

Is the vertical stack very close to your WC? More likely flex in the floor or pipe movement causing seal issues.

Paulw

We've had something similar in our development.

Turned out that it was due to what was being flushed down the toilet. It turned out that things were being flushed away that would have been better off being put in a bin - sanitary towels and even baby nappies.

After a few warning letters to the units connected to that pipe, the problem was soon resolved and didn't happen again.