Racism in Irish Civil Service?

LegacyUser

I am a foreign national living in Ireland for the last 12 years - now naturalized as Irish Citizen. I am working in private sector (multi national IT company) at the moment and have a job offer from Irish Civil Service in ICT. In some of the earlier companies I worked, I have experienced racist issues - people discriminating me on various issues, people calling me bad names, cracking painful jokes about my culture and all. So I am very confused about whether to take the job offer as Irish Civil Service would pre-dominantly be mostly people born and bought up in Ireland with very little chance of getting a multi-cultural work environment.

I would like to know whether any of you have come across any issues with racism or whether any racist culture prevails in Irish Civil Service?

Any tips for avoiding racist abuse / bias at work ?

Also If some racist issues happen would I get some help from unions etc?

R.D. aka MR.D

I work in the civil service and it is honestly the friendliest place that I have ever worked, if some one in the civil service called you a bad name then that would be taken extremely seriously. I wouldn't worry about it, it is very different to the private sector where all that matters is profit and HR are always on the side of management.

Mrs OBumble

I've worked briefly for the civil service.

I discovered that some policies which it was our job to apply are explicitly racist - and that my colleagues didn't see any problem with this. (if client is Irish, do X. If not and Y applies , then do Z - net effect of these policies was to deny some cash to foreigners that similar Irish people get).

The people were sound enough though, and I didn't hear any racist comments. (I'm the type of foreign that people forget is foreign, so I quite often do hear things which people don't intend to say in front of us.)

One thing to be aware of is that some promotional opportunities will give weight to being able to speak Irish. If you haven't learned it, then you could find that it holds you back,

Lux23

If the OP works in ICT I don't think Irish will be all that necessary.

LegacyUser

The job offer I have is in ICT only

uck51js9zml2yt

LIKE RD, I'm also in the civil service having been 25 years in the private sector. I still can't get over how friendly people are.
It's starting to see the "new Irish" get jobs, mainly due them hiring again after nearly 10 years.
You won't make your fortune but work/life balance more than makes up for it.

scamalert

did some work experience in civil service with ICT unit and am foreigner myself.

pros would be its sort of guaranteed job,if you know your field well it will be a bonus.

Almost all do indeed use Irish names surnames,so that would raise a lot of questions and interest at first where you from etc,since many would like you have same issue pronouncing your name and so on,at first,since seeing some irish surname or names is spelling game,to creativity people go to.

think hardest issue is when entering civil service is most people there would been working 10-20 years so quite tight clicks,i know i had little, to have conversations about during lunches or breaks since people were more like family connected with daily knows and routines of each other,but open as well.

All in if was offered such choice i would snap it,since takes few months to get to know people and who you deal with,but once overcoming that you form quite good relationships.

few jokes might be thrown around but in most cases people do take it serious and wouldn't throw any remarks as to where you from or being plain racist.If lucky and landing with someone who isn't totally forgone in the line of work-since as mentioned some people might be stuck in same position for 10 years easily,thus having someone above your rank who doesn't care anymore,might feel uncomfortable when trying to make first impressions and doing more work,but eventually ice breaks,its matter of time and skills you got to make it happen.

I was there for placement and work experience,but if you got skills in enterprise or campus size level work and know how to deal with most issues,its quite easy to settle in,that said i know few people who got there just by chance and to say if you haven't got ICT skills and need training you might be looked down by most before you catch up.

Anyway all this said think would apply to many similar work places,but being in civil service people do actually think before they talk,since words can be taken seriously,think hardest part is surviving first year in general since a lot of performance interviews are done during the year.

LegacyUser

Thanks, I am hoping for the best. Sometimes it might take a while to learn how to interact with "Old School" with technical issues etc as opposed to predominantly young work force in private sector.

CorkFenian

If you haven't already joined public sector I wouldn't advise it

Each to their own I worked private sector up to last year and did a contract in public sector-night and day, you will be working with people of a different experience level and culture, very frustrating experience, but that's just my opinion from what I saw, maybe it was just bad fortune, maybe yours will be different , best of luck

LegacyUser

@CorkFenian
I have already resigned from my private sector role and starting in 2 weeks in the new role. Your advice is sending shivers down my spine.

But now I have no other option, but to give it a try and if it is not working out well, resign and join back in private sector again.

Berserker

CorkFenian wrote: »

If you haven't already joined public sector I wouldn't advise it

Each to their own I worked private sector up to last year and did a contract in public sector-night and day, you will be working with people of a different experience level and culture, very frustrating experience, but that's just my opinion from what I saw, maybe it was just bad fortune, maybe yours will be different , best of luck

I would have to echo this. It can be very frustrating at times. It is also important to mention that promotions in the public sector are based on length of service, as opposed to ability. I haven't witnessed any racism myself but some of the people are far from friendly. I found a greater sense of togetherness in my roles in the private sector.

On the flip side, you will not get the same level of job security in the private sector and the pay and leave allowances are incredibly generous in the public sector.

RWC15champions

Berserker wrote: »

I would have to echo this. It can be very frustrating at times. It is also important to mention that promotions in the public sector are based on length of service, as opposed to ability. I haven't witnessed any racism myself but some of the people are far from friendly. I found a greater sense of togetherness in my roles in the private sector.

On the flip side, you will not get the same level of job security in the private sector and the pay and leave allowances are incredibly generous in the public sector.

Eh, no it's not!

Berserker

RWC15champions wrote: »

Eh, no it's not!

In my experience they are. I've put forward people for promotions and I have been told that person 'X', who has been here longer, is first in line for that promotion.

Bredabe

Had horrible experiences in both my stints in civil service. Lazy management and staff who run amok because of it, one of my colleagues waited over 6 months for a computer and after a year was allocated a desk, no hope of an office ever.

Worked on two different IT systems, which did not join up and important material was lost/misfiled/disregarded with no consequence, one colleague was called to boss's office over her timekeeping and attitude and refused to go! nothing happened to her for that.

Im told its different in each department, but both of the depts I worked in had lazy people who were disinterested in the work and more interested in damaging colleagues who made them look bad.

Clonmel1000

Berserker wrote: »

I would have to echo this. It can be very frustrating at times. It is also important to mention that promotions in the public sector are based on length of service, as opposed to ability. I haven't witnessed any racism myself but some of the people are far from friendly. I found a greater sense of togetherness in my roles in the private sector.

On the flip side, you will not get the same level of job security in the private sector and the pay and leave allowances are incredibly generous in the public sector.

I've read some horse **** on boards but this tops it all.

amtc

I have worked in both public service and civil service. In one I was only Irish person in team of ten including people from Canada, New Zealand, Netherlands, Romania, Germany and China. There were different cultural attitudes. In particular the two Chinese whilst doing a good job stuck rigidly to working hours. Also as someone suggested adopted western names. The Dutch girl had a very odd habit of barking like a dog which is apparently a Dutch way of complaining.

It was very entertaining though.

I would echo as well no way was promotion on length of service. We would have all been AP scale so maybe different in CO grades

bobbysands81

CorkFenian wrote: »

If you haven't already joined public sector I wouldn't advise it

Each to their own I worked private sector up to last year and did a contract in public sector-night and day, you will be working with people of a different experience level and culture, very frustrating experience, but that's just my opinion from what I saw, maybe it was just bad fortune, maybe yours will be different , best of luck

I agree. Generally speaking public sector workers are educated to a higher level than private sector workers and some people find interacting with folk above their own level quite difficult... :rolleyes:

bobbysands81

Berserker wrote: »

I would have to echo this. It can be very frustrating at times. It is also important to mention that promotions in the public sector are based on length of service, as opposed to ability. I haven't witnessed any racism myself but some of the people are far from friendly. I found a greater sense of togetherness in my roles in the private sector.

On the flip side, you will not get the same level of job security in the private sector and the pay and leave allowances are incredibly generous in the public sector.

There are NO promotions in the Civil Service where length of service comes into play, NONE. Every promotion is based on some form of meritocracy, some of these forms of meritocracy may be flawed but it is still a meritocracy. All promotions are based on "ability".

I have still to meet a Civil Servant who got a pay rise when joining the service.

Message to OP - racism is taken extremely seriously in the CS. If anyone makes even one racist comment to you then they will be dealt with very seriously and immediately. There is no room for racism in the CS, don't believe the scaremongering of the two previous posters.

LegacyUser

Thanks bobbysands81, Your words are reassuring...

Nocrac

Berserker wrote: »

In my experience they are. I've put forward people for promotions and I have been told that person 'X', who has been here longer, is first in line for that promotion.

This is just untrue. People aren't "put forward" for promotion in the civil service.

bobbysands81

IrishNonNational wrote: »

Thanks bobbysands81, Your words are reassuring...

The Civil Service has many faults but friendliness of staff and zero tolerance of racism are two things they most definitely have.

Let us know how you get on.

missmatty

I agree with the above. I've worked in the civil service for 13 years and where I am everyone is very friendly and there is zero tolerance on racism.