£10 pollution charge to be levied in London From October

Atlantic Dawn

I see Transport For London has announced that from 23rd October cars registered before 2005 that do not meet Euro 4 emissions standards for nitrogen oxide (NO2) and particulates will be required to pay £10 per day, that's in addition to the congestion charge of £11.50.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-39001734

cruizer101

Seems a bit nuts, out of curiousity I checked their emission surcharge checker https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge/emissions-surcharge-checker put in my car was 99 and it just said doesn't meet criteria no question on further details.
The real kicker If you live in the Congestion Charge zone and your vehicle is registered for a Residents' Discount you will receive a 90% discount, meaning you pay £1 per day for the Emissions Surcharge.
i.e. if you have an older car and live in central london there is an extra £365 tax a year.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ironclaw

I'd be all for this in Dublin if the M50 toll was removed, say inside the North / South circular was tolled at peak times, free at night / weekend. I know our transport links arn't great but there is a serious need to remove cars from the city having seen the effects in the likes of Beijing and Mexico City first hand. On a crisp day from Bray Head you can see the smog floating off Dublin into the sea, remember that's in your lungs and the city has no real heavy industry, so its all cars.

Car pooling, biking and investment in our public transport is the way forward, not a car for every desk in Dublin city. And I say that as a petrol head.

pa990

BBC news channel also reporting that duty increase is on the cards for diesel fuel in the next (uk) budget. (8th March 2017)

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

snaps

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Problem is it will soon be the theme Europe wide. The Diesel is the bad boy in town now.

bear1

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It will be a good time to pick up diesel cars cheap from the UK.

I was thinking just there that with everything going on with Britain and the increases on the cards with fuel and electronics.
Will it be an eventuality that people from the north would start coming down here for shopping? Buying cars?
Fuel is already cheaper here and is going to be even cheaper once they increase their duty.

Noddyholder

Four of world's biggest cities to ban diesel cars from their centres,

Paris, Madrid, Athens and Mexico City will ban the most polluting cars and vans by 2025 to tackle air pollution .

https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjlmbbgwZrSAhUEshQKHWC8Aq4QFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2016%2Fdec%2F02%2Ffour-of-worlds-biggest-cities-to-ban-diesel-cars-from-their-centres&usg=AFQjCNH_32VMyOfUR-Gyu6hciStYUd5KBQ








I am sure this will become the norm and that's only 8 years away.

CiniO

snaps wrote: »

Problem is it will soon be the theme Europe wide. The Diesel is the bad boy in town now.

But diesel cars weren't really encouraged in Europe, except from UK and Ireland.
Sure - people were buying them, as they are cheaper to run if you do big mileage.
But no one on the Continent was buying diesel cars for city driving, like people did in UK and especially Ireland due to taxation.


BTW - did you just send me prv message few days ago, with some of our old talks quoted but nothing new?
Or did I miss new content?

bear1

Madrid has 3 million people and athens is a small bit bigger than Dublin so I wouldn't call them one of the biggest in the world.
But I do agree with them, diesels in cities shouldn't be allowed and it would be great if dublin got electric buses.

snaps

[quote="BTW - did you just send me prv message few days ago, with some of our old talks quoted but nothing new?
Or did I miss new content?[/quote]

Yes I asked a question but it ok now.

Krakow here in Poland will soon have to do something about diesels. One of the most polluted smog filled cities in Europe currently. On bad days people can travel on public transport for free when they have their car documents with them. A good system, but I fear we really need to nip the cause of the problem in the bud.

yosser hughes

Good piece related to this here:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/how-the-fluffy-green-idiots-polluted-europes-cities-and-killed-thousands/

luketitz

snaps wrote: »

[quote="BTW - did you just send me prv message few days ago, with some of our old talks quoted but nothing new?
Or did I miss new content?

Yes I asked a question but it ok now.

Krakow here in Poland will soon have to do something about diesels. One of the most polluted smog filled cities in Europe currently. On bad days people can travel on public transport for free when they have their car documents with them. A good system, but I fear we really need to nip the cause of the problem in the bud.[/quote]

Interesting concept, what's the definition of 'bad days' that trigger this free transport allowance?

luketitz

snaps wrote: »

[quote="BTW - did you just send me prv message few days ago, with some of our old talks quoted but nothing new?
Or did I miss new content?

Yes I asked a question but it ok now.

Krakow here in Poland will soon have to do something about diesels. One of the most polluted smog filled cities in Europe currently. On bad days people can travel on public transport for free when they have their car documents with them. A good system, but I fear we really need to nip the cause of the problem in the bud.[/quote]

Interesting concept, what's the definition of 'bad days' that trigger this free transport allowance?

TallGlass

So do the brits blame the evil EU on this one or themselves?

nice_guy80

bear1 wrote: »

Madrid has 3 million people and athens is a small bit bigger than Dublin so I wouldn't call them one of the biggest in the world.
But I do agree with them, diesels in cities shouldn't be allowed and it would be great if dublin got electric buses.

Athens is the 3rd or 4th largest city in Europe

josip

yosser hughes wrote: »

Good piece related to this here:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/how-the-fluffy-green-idiots-polluted-europes-cities-and-killed-thousands/

Not the most balanced article I've read this week.

weekday

i stopped paying car tax in september 2015,

when my tax cost overreached the value of my car, wtf

my car is driving so clean it barley registers on the nct emissions test

payed tax all my life but with the currewnt system, no thank you, take tha car,





i

yosser hughes

josip wrote: »

Not the most balanced article I've read this week.

Fine, tell me what part of it you disagree with.

snaps

luketitz wrote: »

Interesting concept, what's the definition of 'bad days' that trigger this free transport allowance?

http://cracow.today/free-transportation-if-air-pollution-level-exceeds-150-microgramsm3/

When pollution rises above 150micrograms, and with all the still calm weather in Krakow this winter it's been a common occurrence.
Not only in Krakow is it a problem, even in the smaller country cities like my local city. Some days the smog is worse than Krakow as we are surrounded by mountains.

The biggest culprit is solid fuel stoves, we all still heat our homes with coal and wood.

But cars/motorists are the easiest target for cash.

Older TDI type diesels are the most common cars here, we get all the German cast offs. People don't have money to be buying modern cars.

I'm not denying these older TDI cars are filthy, I know they are as I own I pre dpf vw TDI and that's dirty, but what annoys me is that a few years back governments were promoting diesels as the cleanest form of fuel.

bear1

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Athens is the 3rd or 4th largest city in Europe

Not even close.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Sam Kade

So you can pollute away as long as you pay for it :rolleyes:

CiniO

snaps wrote: »

http://cracow.today/free-transportation-if-air-pollution-level-exceeds-150-microgramsm3/

When pollution rises above 150micrograms, and with all the still calm weather in Krakow this winter it's been a common occurrence.
Not only in Krakow is it a problem, even in the smaller country cities like my local city. Some days the smog is worse than Krakow as we are surrounded by mountains.

The biggest culprit is solid fuel stoves, we all still heat our homes with coal and wood.

But cars/motorists are the easiest target for cash.

Older TDI type diesels are the most common cars here, we get all the German cast offs. People don't have money to be buying modern cars.

I'm not denying these older TDI cars are filthy, I know they are as I own I pre dpf vw TDI and that's dirty, but what annoys me is that a few years back governments were promoting diesels as the cleanest form of fuel.

To be honest, I can't remember any government promoting diesel as the cleanest form of fuel. Not intentionally anyway.

It was probably late 90's or early 2000's when some governments decided to base road tax on CO2 emissions as probably their advisers told them that lower CO2 emissions from cars are required to reduce global warming.

In late 90's probably no one thought that this decision is going to create extreme incentive for diesel cars, and that diesel engines are going to go through such technological developement as they did over last 15-20 years to make them the easiest to fullfil low CO2 emissions requirements.

So it wasn't governments who said we want all of ya to drive diesel cars, but it was rather them saying we want ya to drive low CO2 cars, and car manufacturers managed to achieve this low CO2 results through diesel technology.

Besides, not that many countries incentive low CO2 cars.
It's mostly UK and Ireland.
While on the Continent, most tax incentives in relation to cars, are based on Euro emission standards, which just promotes newer cars with less harmful emissions for humans (like CO, NO, HC, PM etc...)
It's the cars with newest Euro standard we want in cities - not low CO2 car. (just to remind CO2 is harmless to human and is natural ingredient of air we breathe).

You live in Poland, so you are surely aware, there's no incentive for diesel cars there.
No motoratax. Cost of insurance is greatly dependant on engine displacement size, and we all know that diesel engines generally have higher ccm than petrol or hybrid. So it costs more to insure diesel.

99nsr125

bear1 wrote: »

I was thinking just there that with everything going on with Britain and the increases on the cards with fuel and electronics.
Will it be an eventuality that people from the north would start coming down here for shopping? Buying cars?
Fuel is already cheaper here and is going to be even cheaper once they increase their duty.

Fuel is actually marginally cheaper in the north

Ubbquittious

I don't really drive in cities so I don't really give a hoot but this is just typical. First encourage people to buy a certain thing and when you have the lion's share of the population converted start taxing them for it

Like that tax they were bringing in on photovoltaic panels in Belgium. It doesn't matter how green or ungreen it is, they'll find a way to tax it.

ironclaw

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Like that tax they were bringing in on photovoltaic panels in Belgium. It doesn't matter how green or ungreen it is, they'll find a way to tax it.

Similar tax in Spain, basically its not worth it to install due to taxation. However, its not a greedy tax, its a consequence of our economy. All these green energy devices effectively bring the cost to the end user to nil. So the government and hence greater society have a deficit in the tax bill. Eventually we will need to tax electric cars at the same rate we are currently taxing petrol or at least levy the power needed to charge them. Our power grid for example doesn't have next or near the capacity to run a nation of electric cars, so there needs to be a levy to build the network to support it, who pays for that if the car costs 50c to fill and the tax is 100EUR a year?

I'm not against green, far from it, but its not a free ride and whilst the early adopters will benefit, eventually the cash has to stoked up from somewhere be that charge levies, tolls or taxation.

Ubbquittious

ironclaw wrote: »

Similar tax in Spain, basically its not worth it to install due to taxation. However, its not a greedy tax, its a consequence of our economy. All these green energy devices effectively bring the cost to the end user to nil. So the government and hence greater society have a deficit in the tax bill. Eventually we will need to tax electric cars at the same rate we are currently taxing petrol or at least levy the power needed to charge them. Our power grid for example doesn't have next or near the capacity to run a nation of electric cars, so there needs to be a levy to build the network to support it, who pays for that if the car costs 50c to fill and the tax is 100EUR a year?

I'm not against green, far from it, but its not a free ride and whilst the early adopters will benefit, eventually the cash has to stoked up from somewhere be that charge levies, tolls or taxation.

They'll also have to keep finding new things to incentivise people with after everyone has converted to green. After everyone stops smoking and drinking and trades the car for an electric bike and moves into a caravan to avoid the property tax that has been brought up to €4,000 a year to cover the deficit people won't be too happy paying their new €5,000 existence tax. So the government will have to invent new "sins" and offer grants to convert to the new "good" thing they are promoting instead.

In fact they'll probably see it coming after the traveling community takes on their first batch of new recruits and start offering all sorts of grants for adding non-slip tiles to your house, converting every room into a padded cell for safety reasons just so people can continue to delude themselves into thinking they're getting free stuff from the government for another short while.

weekday

weekday wrote: »

i stopped paying car tax in september 2015,

when my tax cost overreached the value of my car, wtf

my car is driving so clean it barley registers on the nct emissions test

payed tax all my life but with the currewnt system, no thank you, take tha car,





i

funny update to this,

the very next day my car was seized and impounded for no tax :rolleyes:

Ubbquittious

weekday wrote: »

funny update to this,

the very next day my car was seized and impounded for no tax :rolleyes:

I do believe boards "cooperates closely with law enforcement"

there are also people on here who can't stand to see others getting away when themselves are living by the book. You have to be careful what you say on here

bear1

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I do believe boards "cooperates closely with law enforcement"

there are also people on here who can't stand to see others getting away when themselves are living by the book. You have to be careful what you say on here

What are you on about? The poster freely admitted that in 2 years he hadn't bothered to pay motor tax.
It's information he freely gave out (God knows why) and as a consequence, or if you prefer karma, the car was seized.
Sure we're hardly to blame for that? It's the OPs own silly fault.

Ubbquittious

bear1 wrote: »

What are you on about? The poster freely admitted that in 2 years he hadn't bothered to pay motor tax.
It's information he freely gave out (God knows why) and as a consequence, or if you prefer karma, the car was seized.
Sure we're hardly to blame for that? It's the OPs own silly fault.

We live in a nation of snitches who are out to make sure Fine Gael get their few quid.

Like the infamous "helicopter" that used to go around to make sure people weren't "back yard burning". The "helicopter" was in fact just the lad next door with the phone in his hand.

Brian Scan

Ubbquittious wrote: »

We live in a nation of snitches who are out to make sure Fine Gael get their few quid.

Do taxes go to Fine Gael?

josip

Do people really believe that someone on here rang the guards and said, "weekday's car isn't taxed"
Don't you think that the guards might need a little bit more than that to go on?

weekday

i wasn't complaining about getting caught,

i knew it would happen,

anyway i had a very good conversation with the garda re tax, insurance, older cars, emmisions etc ( we were waiting 30 minutes for the tow truck to come)

fair is fair,

and i am getting my tax affairs in order asap

veetwin

Ubbquittious wrote: »

We live in a nation of snitches who are out to make sure Fine Gael get their few quid.

Like the infamous "helicopter" that used to go around to make sure people weren't "back yard burning". The "helicopter" was in fact just the lad next door with the phone in his hand.

Indeed. The sooner there is an election and that FG crowd booted out the better. I have amnesia so I'm sure there will be nothing to worry when FF are back in power and everything will be great....

ironclaw

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Like the infamous "helicopter" that used to go around to make sure people weren't "back yard burning". The "helicopter" was in fact just the lad next door with the phone in his hand.

Many years ago I spoke with CHC, who operate the rescue services for the Irish State, and they confirmed they had been tasked with this on a very ad-hoc basis. Its actually pretty simple as the FLIR camera will snap a pic and print the location and time on it. It wasn't a long lived venture but its not hearsay to the best of my knowledge.

josip

Definitely wasn't the lad next door in South Kilkenny, unless he's 3,000ft tall