First world cities that make Dublin's public transport look good

Chivito550

Reading up on Columbus, Ohio in the USA. Population over 2 million, yet they have no form of rail at all. No Metro, no commuter train, no intercity, no trams.

What other cities make our third world public transport look ok in comparison?

Ferrari3600

Auckland. Not only a 'first world'' city but like Dublin, a national capital and one that regularly makes it into those 'most livable cities in the world' lists.

A charming city in a lot of ways but they have made a mess of their public transport.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Aucklands-public-transport-system-so-bad-and-expensive

L1011

Leeds. Airport up a hill up residential streets. Tram system dropped after £40m spent. Pathetic "ftr" bendybuses decorated to look like trams running on ordinary roads claiming to be a BRT.

I would argue it makes Cork's public transport system look good let alone Dublin!

Sam Russell

L1011 wrote: »

Leeds. Airport up a hill up residential streets. Tram system dropped after £40m spent. Pathetic "ftr" bendybuses decorated to look like trams running on ordinary roads claiming to be a BRT.

I would argue it makes Cork's public transport system look good let alone Dublin!

I think they had the tram system up for sale. We should have bought it, lock stock and barrel. We could then bring the rolling stock to Dublin.

ClovenHoof

There are not many. Even many of the car dependent US cities are moving towards trams and metros. Dublin really is awful considering it is a European capital.

Zebra3

A while since I was in them but Dallas and Phoenix.

Awful places too.

brick tamland

LA.

Drive or taxi/Uber or you're fecked.

NoCrackHaving

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

Auckland. Not only a 'first world'' city but like Dublin, a national capital and one that regularly makes it into those 'most livable cities in the world' lists.

A charming city in a lot of ways but they have made a mess of their public transport.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Aucklands-public-transport-system-so-bad-and-expensive

Auckland isn't a capital city...

gordongekko

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Auckland isn't a capital city...

What's the capital of the north island?

Ferrari3600

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Auckland isn't a capital city...

You're correct. But it's the largest by population in NZ by a huge margin so your point is rather pedantic.

hytrogen

Abu Dhabi, where everyone drives, you get discounts on your speeding fines if you pay early, no-one indicates as it's seen as a sign of inferiority, kind of like the quays most days and taxi drivers here.. And their "buses" someone definitely got the magic crayons out on the Hookah

markpb

brick tamland wrote:

LA. Drive or taxi/Uber or you're fecked.

Have you been in LA recently?

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Chivito550

Not a first world country like we know it, but it managed to host the Olympics so it warrants mention. The public transport in Rio de Janeiro is beyond a joke. The metro is good if you live near it, but bugger all use to most. In order to connect to Line 4 you have to get off at the last stop of line 1, change platforms (long walk) and then the Line 4 begins its journey from there. Would have made more sense to have had it as an extension. In addition Line 4 only took you 2/3rds of the distance to the Olympic Park so you needed a BRT for 20 mins after that. Mental. In total there are 2 lines (1 and 2) which share a lot of the same route and now the new line 4 (there is no line 3!).

Then there's the SuperVia train which has no integrated ticketing with the metro. Unless you had the Olympic pass, you'd have to queue up in a massive line to buy another ticket. The trains themselves are misery. Absolutely cramped going out to the far flung stadium that hosted the athletics, yet lads in wifebeaters stenching of BO would still squeeze through trying to sell an assortment of sweets, crisps and soft drinks. They did store ice cold beer in their back packs so it wasn't all bad. Those trains were surprisingly infrequent given they were serving the track and field events.

The staff are utterly clueless. One guy tells you one thing, the next tells you the opposite. One lad said to me "That's Brazil for you, roll with it", or something to that extent.

Every half decent transport (metro, trains, BRT) are so disjointed that it would take spectators a good 90 minutes to get from one cluster of venues to another. I realised after a few days that by having a media pass I had access to a phenomenal media bus service which had so many routes, with frequent departures and which took you between every venue imaginable, in about one third of the time. But until I realised this, the first few days were pretty miserable getting around. Anybody who was there purely as a spectator and who wasn't accredited would have found it very different to get to multiple venues in one day.

And then there's the layout of the city. Stunning mountains and forests everywhere. A tourists' dream, but a nightmare for public transport as they block the obvious routes, and create enormous bottlenecks. For most people buses are the only option and they crawl along with the most ridiculous car traffic you will ever see.

I got a taxi one day to the bus station, and for the first 30 minutes of the journey, I'd have been quicker walking, even with a suitcase. Imagine doing that every day.

A local girl who lived out a bit further than Olympic Park, who worked in the city, said to me she gets up at 5:30 every morning for a job that starts at 9am!

Don't get me wrong, it's a great city and the Olympics were great, but in terms of public transport you'll struggle to find a worse city that has hosted it. Tokyo will be 500 years ahead.

monument

brick tamland wrote: »

LA.

Drive or taxi/Uber or you're fecked.

You can very much so get around LA without a car: http://sunmoontechdreams.blogspot.ie/2013/11/welcome-to-grid-la-bus-system.html?m=1

Their growing metro rail system puts our planning and funding systems to shame.

Metro Rail
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Metro_Rail

Metrolink
http://www.metrolinktrains.com/routes/

n97 mini

brick tamland wrote: »

LA.

Drive or taxi/Uber or you're fecked.

20 million people spread over a large area. Public transport works of you plan very carefully. But on the upside uber is dirt cheap, far cheaper than a taxi here.

n97 mini

monument wrote: »

You can very much so get around LA without a car: http://sunmoontechdreams.blogspot.ie/2013/11/welcome-to-grid-la-bus-system.html?m=1

Their growing metro rail system puts our planning and funding systems to shame.

Metro Rail
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Metro_Rail

Metrolink
http://www.metrolinktrains.com/routes/

Lot of investment in public transport in the US in the last number of years, to the point where it's surprisingly good in a lot of cities. My favourite was Portland. Trams, streetcars and buses. $2.50 single journey or $5 for a day ticket covering all modes.

mansize

Sanfrancisco

ClovenHoof

brick tamland wrote: »

LA.

Drive or taxi/Uber or you're fecked.

LA is developing a super system in recent years.

ClovenHoof

mansize wrote: »

Sanfrancisco

BART? Trams....Commuter Rail?

ClovenHoof

n97 mini wrote: »

Lot of investment in public transport in the US in the last number of years, to the point where it's surprisingly good in a lot of cities. My favourite was Portland. Trams, streetcars and buses. $2.50 single journey or $5 for a day ticket covering all modes.

Atlanta too. Complex metro and bus network.

I think people are comparing the centres of other cities with all of Dublin. I find the transport is pretty OK here in considering the small population over the wide area.

I have noticed Irish people have the attitude to find a way to put down everything about their country. Hello, it is not so bad, pretty good really

prinzeugen

L1011 wrote: »

Leeds. Airport up a hill up residential streets. Tram system dropped after £40m spent. Pathetic "ftr" bendybuses decorated to look like trams running on ordinary roads claiming to be a BRT.

I would argue it makes Cork's public transport system look good let alone Dublin!

If fairness the WYPTE has spent millions on rail over the years in the Leeds area. They paid for stations to be reopened, part funded electrification and bought new trains. I have never used the bus etc however.

monument

Deleted User wrote: »

I think people are comparing the centres of other cities with all of Dublin. I find the transport is pretty OK here in considering the small population over the wide area.

I have noticed Irish people have the attitude to find a way to put down everything about their country. Hello, it is not so bad, pretty good really

We don't have that small of a population over a wide area -- it's a myth that Dublin is low density.

The continuous urban area of Amsterdam is slightly lower density than that of Dublin. The continuous urban area is the area which mainly hosts tram lines and metro lines -- yet even with a lower density Amsterdam hosts far more tram routes and a metro network with four lines (soon to be five lines).

mansize

ClovenHoof wrote: »

BART? Trams....Commuter Rail?

Bart and trains were very limited. Bus Service awful filthy dreadful

ClovenHoof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think people are comparing the centres of other cities with all of Dublin. I find the transport is pretty OK here in considering the small population over the a wide area

Myth.

Elemonator

Public transport is actually a largely alien concept in the US broadly speaking. Not many railways and few good high speed ones like the Acela Express.

Having been around the world, I can actually say Ireland is quite okay but expensive. We are comparing ourselves to countries which were empires once and have a head start on us. For a country that was largely ignored when it was part of the UK and only independent for not even 100 years, I would say we are decent and catching up.

I dare you to find substantial railways in Turkey.

Chivito550

Elemonator wrote: »

Public transport is actually a largely alien concept in the US broadly speaking. Not many railways and few good high speed ones like the Acela Express.

Having been around the world, I can actually say Ireland is quite okay but expensive. We are comparing ourselves to countries which were empires once and have a head start on us. For a country that was largely ignored when it was part of the UK and only independent for not even 100 years, I would say we are decent and catching up.

I dare you to find substantial railways in Turkey.

How are we catching up? Other cities our size are constantly upgrading and expanding their metro/rail/light rail networks. This means we are falling further behind.

monument

Elemonator wrote: »

Public transport is actually a largely alien concept in the US broadly speaking. Not many railways and few good high speed ones like the Acela Express.

Broadly speaking, no, it's not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_light_rail_systems_by_ridership
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership

Elemonator wrote: »

Having been around the world, I can actually say Ireland is quite okay but expensive. We are comparing ourselves to countries which were empires once and have a head start on us. For a country that was largely ignored when it was part of the UK and only independent for not even 100 years, I would say we are decent and catching up.

The Amsterdam Metro only started operations in 1977, the LA Metro system only started in 1990, and the Copenhagen Metro only started in 2002... we keep choosing to fund large road projects over rail again and again and again.

And rail in Ireland was hardly "largely ignored" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Ireland#/media/File:Map_Rail_Ireland_Viceregal_Commission_1906.jpg

Elemonator wrote: »

I dare you to find substantial railways in Turkey.

IS that some kind of a joke?

Istanbul's metro and tram network: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Hafif_Metro_Istanbul_Map.png

The Istanbul Metro (Turkish: İstanbul Metrosu) is a rapid transit railway network that serves the city of Istanbul, Turkey. It is operated by Metro Istanbul (the new name of Istanbul Ulaşım A.Ş.), a public enterprise, controlled by the Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality. The oldest section is the metro is M1 line, which opened in 1989; it now includes 73 stations in service,[1] with 71 more under construction.
The system currently consists of five lines named M1, M2, M3, M4, and the M6 Mini-Metro. More lines are under construction or planned: M5 (Üsküdar-Çekmeköy/Sancaktepe), M8 (Bostancı-Dudullu) will be on the Asian side, while M7 (Kabataş-Mahmutbey), M9 (Ataköy-İkitelli) will be on the European side.[3]
Istanbul Metro well connected with Marmaray and F1 Funicular underground systems and T1 modern tram ground system.

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Metro

Yüksek Hızlı Tren or YHT (English: High-Speed Train) is the high-speed rail service of the Turkish State Railways, currently operating on two lines: Ankara to Istanbul via Eskişehir and Ankara to Konya via Polatlı. YHT is the only high-speed rail service in Turkey, with trains operating at speeds of up to 250 km/h (HT65000)[3] or 300 km/h (HT80000).[2]

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C3%BCksek_H%C4%B1zl%C4%B1_Tren

Plus:
İzmir Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0zmir_Metro
İzmir commuter rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0ZBAN
etc

ClovenHoof

Elemonator wrote: »

Public transport is actually a largely alien concept in the US broadly speaking. Not many railways and few good high speed ones like the Acela Express.

Having been around the world, I can actually say Ireland is quite okay but expensive. We are comparing ourselves to countries which were empires once and have a head start on us. For a country that was largely ignored when it was part of the UK and only independent for not even 100 years, I would say we are decent and catching up.

I dare you to find substantial railways in Turkey.

Jesus wept....

it's like Sean Barrett and Colm McCarthy love children all arrived on this thread at once.

plodder

mansize wrote: »

Bart and trains were very limited. Bus Service awful filthy dreadful

Never used the bus there, but the BART network is quite extensive now, and still expanding. Both major airports in the region are connected to it.

What's impressive about that region though is how the road system is able to cope with a population of over 7 million, and it gets everyone to work and home again every day, albeit with fairly bad congestion at times. What I like about the US is their pragmatism. Every measure whether public or private has to be justified. They wouldn't tolerate the under utilised bus lanes on Dublin's streets for example.

We have the worst of all worlds. A preference for public transport among planners, but unwillingness to invest in it, by politicians.

n97 mini

BART runs on a 5'6" gauge too to allow for (noticeably) wider trains.

monument

plodder wrote: »

...They wouldn't tolerate the under utilised bus lanes on Dublin's streets for example.

Exactly how many of the QBC routes are you talking about?

plodder

monument wrote: »

Exactly how many of the QBC routes are you talking about?

I mean bus lanes in general. QBCs are a great idea, but without the QBs they aren't much use.

Dyr

Elemonator wrote: »

PubWe are comparing ourselves to countries which were empires once and have a head start on us.


I dare you to find substantial railways in Turkey.

You realise that Turkey had an empire yeah?

Elemonator

Bambi wrote: »

You realise that Turkey had an empire yeah?

The Ottoman Empire was a bit behind the European ones.

jonnny68

L1011 wrote: »

Leeds. Airport up a hill up residential streets. Tram system dropped after £40m spent. Pathetic "ftr" bendybuses decorated to look like trams running on ordinary roads claiming to be a BRT.

I would argue it makes Cork's public transport system look good let alone Dublin!

Indeed this is true, LBA itself is a shambles, a grim dated airport with not many facilities , and some of the staff need a personality transplant, one taxi company Arrow have the monopoly on the taxis from LBA,they paid a lot if money for it but have made that back ten fold and are overpriced and sometimes the queues are horrendous and you have to pay in advance in the shabby portakabin in LBA, the bus service to Leeds is also a shambles, overpriced for a small bus and is often late or doesn't come at all, and again some of the staff are downright rude.

ClovenHoof

Elemonator wrote: »

The Ottoman Empire was a bit behind the European ones.

Can the Mods ban this person? I have seen bannings for less.

Sam Russell

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Can the Mods ban this person? I have seen bannings for less.

Mod: If you have a problem with a post, please report it.

Comment on Mod actions usually gets a ban. You should take this as a warning

ChikiChiki

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think people are comparing the centres of other cities with all of Dublin. I find the transport is pretty OK here in considering the small population over the wide area.

I have noticed Irish people have the attitude to find a way to put down everything about their country. Hello, it is not so bad, pretty good really

This post annoys me. We do a lot of simple things really badly given our wealth. Don't be an apologist for it.

MGWR

Chivito550 wrote: »

Reading up on Columbus, Ohio in the USA. Population over 2 million, yet they have no form of rail at all. No Metro, no commuter train, no intercity, no trams.

What other cities make our third world public transport look ok in comparison?

Columbus' population is nowhere near two million. The "metropolitan statistical area" is very spread out (about nine times the area of County Dublin) and not as dense as Greater Dublin; and Dublin City's population density is three times that of Columbus city; not to mention the city itself is quite spread out too (over 200 square miles).

n97 mini

You have to also realise that in the US various oil companies and other vested interests bought entire cities' transport networks to shut them down. Columbus had an electric street car system that was transporting 66m people a year before WW2.

L1011

n97 mini wrote: »

You have to also realise that in the US various oil companies and other vested interests bought entire cities' transport networks to shut them down. Columbus had an electric street car system that was transporting 66m people a year before WW2.

Bus manufacturers were the main aggressors there - buses need replacement a lot quicker than trams do

Sam Russell

L1011 wrote: »

Bus manufacturers were the main aggressors there - buses need replacement a lot quicker than trams do

It was General Motors that bought up the street cars (trams) to close them down so people had to buy cars. LA had a magnificent tram system once.

L1011

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was General Motors that bought up the street cars (trams) to close them down so people had to buy cars. LA had a magnificent tram system once.

General Motors, who make buses. They put buses in as the replacement knowing that they would need replacement again, and again, and again during the life of a single tram. Do DB have a single bus in passenger service older than the 3000/4000 series Luas cars? (edit - seems to be some 03s on Euro's still). Those trams are not even halfway to retirement.

Trying to claim it was to sell cars is a very recent revisionism. Car sales were rising already and there is no obvious increase due to the tram->bus changeover - public transport traffic was falling everywhere in the world.

ArmaniJeanss

Las Vegas is fairly terrible.

A coupe of bus routes that consistently get stuck in nightmare traffic and have terrible dwell times because of people paying cash.
A single line monorail that travels hidden from view a block behind where it would have been most useful because the hotels who paid for it want you to have to walk through their labyrinth casinos rather than have the stations on the main streets. A failure by the local authorities to fund it for an obvious extra 3KM link to the airport (allegedly because of 'lobbying' by the taxi/limo industry who have an airport monopoly).
A few more private unconnected monorails allowing you just to get from hotel A to Hotel B.
Closed down their mainline train station so no link to the Amtrak system.