Notice given but new job wants me sooner

Rave.ef

Hi sorry for the long post just a bita background to the situation and looking for little advice. Iv handed in my notice giving my boss about 3 and a half weeks. Iv never had a contract so no minimum requirements as far as I'm aware. My new job is to start first week of March Monday the sixth was the agreement. But now they are looking for me sooner if possible but at the same time understand if I can't. The thing is my employer hasn't really spoken to me since, it's a small work environment, boss myself, young lad and a part timer so it's gona be a long two weeks that Iv left. I know we're gona part on bad terms on the boss's part and i don't think il be asking for a reference in the future even tho Iv been here over seven years. He is a little childish and is acting like a spoiled child since I told him I'm leaving.
Apart from a moral point of view what would be the result of leaving earlier than planed. The new job is whit an extended family member so I wouldn't be too worried about the whole looking bad to the new employer.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

ibarelycare

If you don't have an employment contract or written terms of employment then you only have to give him minimum one weeks' notice by law.

He can't withhold pay (including holiday pay accrued at your date of leaving) or a P45. The only thing he can do is refuse to give you a reference and, since you're not bothered about that, then you've nothing to worry about.

Xterminator

Hi

Did your quitting place your current employer in a difficult position, or can they carry one without you with little or no disruption?

if you think there is very little disruption you could sit down with boss and ask if he can allow you to finish sooner. If it will disrupt his business then no, suck it up.

PS when your contract doesn't specify notice period, then its usually the pay cycle, eg, if your paid weekly then you give a week's notice, if it's a month you give a month.

toadfly

Xterminator wrote: »

PS when your contract doesn't specify notice period, then its usually the pay cycle, eg, if your paid weekly then you give a week's notice, if it's a month you give a month.

No its not. Its one week regardless of how long you worked there or when you get paid, once its not in the contract.

Rave.ef

A lot of the work load falls on me alright but I have been training the other lad for the past few weeks so he can take over the invoices and account side of the work. It's a tyre depot so it's not a huge undertaking on the office side. The problem is the boss dosnt want to work even tho I did let him know last August I was looking for another job.

How do you mean holiday pay accrued at date of leaving. I shoulda booked two weeks off and given two weeks notice on day of holidays:D

ibarelycare

Rave.ef wrote: »

How do you mean holiday pay accrued at date of leaving. I shoulda booked two weeks off and given two weeks notice on day of holidays:D

Well if you're leaving on the 6th March and you haven't taken any holidays this year then you'll be owed the holidays that will have accrued up to that date. So if you're on 20 days holidays a year and you're leaving on 6th March, you'll be due roughly 3.5/4 days' holidays on your termination.

Dial Hard

Rave.ef wrote:

How do you mean holiday pay accrued at date of leaving. I shoulda booked two weeks off and given two weeks notice on day of holidays

If you get 20 days holidays a year you'd have accrued about 3.5 days to the end of Feb (presuming a Jan - Dec holiday year). If you haven't taken any days yet then you're entitled to be paid for these in your last paycheck.

If you'd booked two weeks holidays and used these in lieu of notice then he'd have been docking money out of your last paycheck .

Rave.ef

when iv no contract I couldn't see that working that way. Besides we only get one week off a year and are expected to work minimum 56 hours a week 6 days. I know totally illegal and that's the biggest reason for leaving

Dial Hard

Rave.ef wrote:

when iv no contract I couldn't see that working that way. Besides we only get one week off a year and are expected to work minimum 56 hours a week 6 days. I know totally illegal and that's the biggest reason for leaving

If that's true then I'd be telling him I'm finishing up today and wouldn't waste a single moment worrying about how he's going to take it.

I'd also be reporting him to NERA for those employment practices. Completely inexcusable.

ibarelycare

Rave.ef wrote: »

when iv no contract I couldn't see that working that way. Besides we only get one week off a year and are expected to work minimum 56 hours a week 6 days. I know totally illegal and that's the biggest reason for leaving

Wow...how have you stuck it out that long? You're entitled to those holidays by law, you don't need a contract. You should get onto the WRC.

OldMrBrennan83

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AlanG

Normally i would say work out your notice but in your case it sounds like you are unlikely to get your holiday pay. Once you get your next pay walk away.

Neon_Lights

Who's pushing? The recruiters or the employer? Made this mistake in my current job, recruiters only push you so they can get paid as soon as possible. Take your time, the employer generally would understand that things take a few weeks.

Rave.ef

What kept me here was I got kinda stuck in a rut and the security of a wage coming in but now it's time to take a leap of fate and try working to live instead of the other way around. I often thought of reporting the situation but alway think I'd get no luck for it

Bandana boy

I would hold fire on the storming off into the sunset
7 years on your CV is a long time to have no reference for
While he is acting a petulantly now , I suspect he will calm down and in a year or two might be a great reference for you.
If you agreed March 6th then I would honor it .
If the atmosphere starts to get you down just remember its nearly over and no point compromising your ethics for him .

Rave.ef

Bandana boy wrote: »

I would hold fire on the storming off into the sunset
7 years on your CV is a long time to have no reference for
While he is acting a petulantly now , I suspect he will calm down and in a year or two might be a great reference for you.
If you agreed March 6th then I would honor it .
If the atmosphere starts to get you down just remember its nearly over and no point compromising your ethics for him .

This is really the only reason iv stayed as long as I have there's been plenty of reasons I should have walk out because of over the years but my wages haven't appeared yet and it's been every Thursday for seven years I don't think it's a coincidence some how.

I hadn't checked to see if I got payed before I started this thread.

campo

I be out as soon as possible with a little reminder to the boss to make sure he gives a good reference in future or else he could find himself reported for the lack of holidays and over time pay

the_syco

Rave.ef wrote: »

He is a little childish and is acting like a spoiled child since I told him I'm leaving.

Well, from that you know that even if he agreed to give you a reference, you'd probably not use him in case he gets childish and f**ked you over when talking to your new employer. With that in mind, if he gets really childish, be childish and walk away :P

billybonkers

Bandana boy wrote: »

I would hold fire on the storming off into the sunset
7 years on your CV is a long time to have no reference for
While he is acting a petulantly now , I suspect he will calm down and in a year or two might be a great reference for you.
If you agreed March 6th then I would honor it .
If the atmosphere starts to get you down just remember its nearly over and no point compromising your ethics for him .

Great advice, if they want you for the new role they will wait till 6th March as agreed.

If its a recruiter you are dealing with tell them you are sticking to the 6th, its up to them to deal with the client.

If its direct with the employer, speak with them and explain the situation. As I said if they want you for the job they will be understanding and stick to the original agreement.

I know it must seem like a difficult situation but in the long run an extra week or so will not make that much of a difference. No sense in burning bridges, Ireland is too small for it. Trust me!

OldMrBrennan83

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Dial Hard

billybonkers wrote:

I know it must seem like a difficult situation but in the long run an extra week or so will not make that much of a difference. No sense in burning bridges, Ireland is too small for it. Trust me!

Tbh, it sounds like his employer has no intentions of paying him so all he'd be doing by staying til the agreed end date (which I assume is March 3rd) is working for free for even longer.

billybonkers

Dial Hard wrote: »

Tbh, it sounds like his employer has no intentions of paying him so all he'd be doing by staying til the agreed end date (which I assume is March 3rd) is working for free for even longer.

AH missed that part while constructing my response!

Report these guys OP

ibarelycare

Definitely report. I feel bad for the people who are still employed by him. The whole "it will bring me no luck" thing is BS.

Rave.ef

Il give it till Monday and if my wages don't appear by then my mind will be made up on reporting and leaving earlier than planed.

Neon_Lights

Rave.ef wrote: »

Il give it till Monday and if my wages don't appear by then my mind will be made up on reporting and leaving earlier than planed.

Schedule a chat with the boss 1 to 1 Monday, at least try to keep your side amicable. Outline about the whole wages situation one final time and then if a no go and he's still throwing toys out of the pram leave it, also report the person to the Labour relations commission.

Rave.ef

Il have to. We haven't really seen him in two days and he's not picking up the phone I text a few time about work related stuff and just got ok back from him.
Would prefer a face to face talk about wages and treatment so wouldn't bring it up in a text.

jimmycrackcorm

toadfly wrote: »

No its not. Its one week regardless of how long you worked there or when you get paid, once its not in the contract.

That's not correct. It depends on length of service as per Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973. (c) if the employee has been in the continuous service of his employer for five years or more, but less than ten years, four weeks,

Rave.ef wrote: »

when iv no contract I couldn't see that working that way. Besides we only get one week off a year and are expected to work minimum 56 hours a week 6 days. I know totally illegal and that's the biggest reason for leaving

Having said the above, if your employer did not give you the mandatory 20 days per year as per the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997, Under Section 19 (1) of the Act you are entitled to a basic annual paid leave entitlement of 4 weeks, then you should leave anyway and then file a claim for owed holiday pay.

ibarelycare

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

That's not correct. It depends on length of service as per Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973. (c) if the employee has been in the continuous service of his employer for five years or more, but less than ten years, four weeks,

You're wrong actually. That's the length of notice owed by an employer to an employee. Unless it's otherwise stated in the contract, an employee is only obliged to give an employer one weeks' notice, regardless of their length of service.

From the Act:

An employer shall, subject to the right of an employee to give counter-notice under section 10 of the Act of 1967 or to give notice of intention to claim redundancy payment in respect of lay-off or short-time under section 12 of that Act, be entitled to not less than one week's notice from an employee who has been in his continuous employment for thirteen weeks or more of that employee's intention to terminate his contract of employment.

toadfly

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

That's not correct. It depends on length of service as per Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973.

You're wrong, that's on the employers side. Employees only have to give one week unless specified in their contract.

bucketybuck

To the OP, I'd be out of there at whatever moment best suited me and wouldn't think twice about it. I know the type of guy you are working for and **** him, stop worrying about it and leave whenever suits you.

I was given advice once, your new job starts when you accept the offer and the best thing you can do in your notice period is prepare for your new job.You won't get any thanks for anything else.

Leave now and start your new job early is by far the best option for you.

Rave.ef

Wages appeared anyway but still haven't seen nor heard from him.
The new job is crying out for me things have got busy 3 weeks earlier than planned so in an ideal world I would have started this morning. Apart from not wanting to leaving on bad terms and maybe looking for a future reference I have no reason to stay. I really appreciate all the good advice and it is all pointing in the exact same direction

pilly

If it's true what you've said about only getting 1 weeks holiday per year for the last 7 years then he owes you 21 weeks pay OP.

I'd be walking and bringing a case through NERA. Atrocious way of treating staff.

Rave.ef

Unfortunately it is true. But on the reporting side of it it's kinda my own fault in a way that I let it go on it's just hard in a small work environment. I do have the other lad warned tho about the extra work load he's taking on whit in the office that hel have to get a pay rise and to stand up for himself better than I did.

toadfly

Rave.ef wrote: »

Unfortunately it is true. But on the reporting side of it it's kinda my own fault in a way that I let it go on it's just hard in a small work environment. I do have the other lad warned tho about the extra work load he's taking on whit in the office that hel have to get a pay rise and to stand up for himself better than I did.

Thats fine you didnt want to rock the boat when still there but I would be bringing a case now. The amount of money he owes you for holidays and overtime if insane.

pilly

Rave.ef wrote: »

Unfortunately it is true. But on the reporting side of it it's kinda my own fault in a way that I let it go on it's just hard in a small work environment. I do have the other lad warned tho about the extra work load he's taking on whit in the office that hel have to get a pay rise and to stand up for himself better than I did.

Oh I understand, sometimes when we just need a job we put up with these things but now you're leaving it's a good time to take the case and get the money you're owed.

How did you even survive with just one weeks holidays per year?

Rave.ef

pilly wrote: »

Oh I understand, sometimes when we just need a job we put up with these things but now you're leaving it's a good time to take the case and get the money you're owed.

How did you even survive with just one weeks holidays per year?

Like you said when we need the job we put up with these things. I did manage three weeks nearly two years ago for our wedding but I only got payed for one week off. He was sneaky enough about it at the time and I'd such a high going whit the wedding it slipped by for a few weeks. Got payed two weeks and a weeks equivalent in a wedding card. Delighted whit myself until I realised it was the week I worked... 1 weeks holiday pay and a week that was a gift. Even if he put that trough on the books as holiday pay I was still a week without pay but again put up whit it because I didn't think I'd much choice.

dar100

This is unbelievable!!' Take this fella to the cleaners

Purple Mountain

Good luck in new job but maybe think about investing in an assertiveness course OP.
Don't let new place walk all over you.
Just coz it's a distant relative doesn't mean they wouldn't take the p**s especially since you are of a willing nature.
Seriously it's actually more detrimental to yourself and your morale if you don't stand up for yourself when you know you're being had. Easier said than done I definitely know but start new job as you mean to go on.

Rave.ef

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Good luck in new job but maybe think about investing in an assertiveness course OP.
Don't let new place walk all over you.
Just coz it's a distant relative doesn't mean they wouldn't take the p**s especially since you are of a willing nature.
Seriously it's actually more detrimental to yourself and your morale if you don't stand up for yourself when you know you're being had. Easier said than done I definitely know but start new job as you mean to go on.

Thank you. I know exactly what you mean and the fact its a relative I'm going working for comes with the risk of a bit of p*** taking but I do mean to start as I go on and it's gona help that il be working alone 95% of the time so we won't be getting on each other's nerves

Purple Mountain

Rave.ef wrote: »

Thank you. I know exactly what you mean and the fact its a relative I'm going working for comes with the risk of a bit of p*** taking but I do mean to start as I go on and it's gona help that il be working alone 95% of the time so we won't be getting on each other's nerves

For what it's worth, you sound like a diligent and honest worker just remember that and value your self worth.

Rave.ef

Minds been made up thanks to all the good advice and the complaints iv received from ye. Finished this evening starting new job in the morning didn't want to be the one to burn bridges but unfortunately I had to. As far as reporting gos I don't think il go down that route.

Thanks again

pilly

Rave.ef wrote:

Minds been made up thanks to all the good advice and the complaints iv received from ye. Finished this evening starting new job in the morning didn't want to be the one to burn bridges but unfortunately I had to. As far as reporting gos I don't think il go down that route.

Fair play to you. Best of luck with the new job.

ibarelycare

Best of luck with the new job. I really think you should report him though. He's going to continue to take advantage of vulnerable people and get away with it unless something is done. No reason for you not to do it, he's a scumbag.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi

Did your quitting place your current employer in a difficult position, or can they carry one without you with little or no disruption?

if you think there is very little disruption you could sit down with boss and ask if he can allow you to finish sooner. If it will disrupt his business then no, suck it up.

PS when your contract doesn't specify notice period, then its usually the pay cycle, eg, if your paid weekly then you give a week's notice, if it's a month you give a month.

Current employers state of affairs has nothing to do with the OP, and the OP should not be held responsible. If his current employer is in a difficult position, that's his own fault.

monkeysnapper

Good luck with new job.

I was in a similar story to you 5 years ago, it wasn't till after I left it hit me how much of a fool I was putting up with shyte , putting my life on hold thinking of their business first .

It really hit me when owners couldn't even say hello to me in public even tho I continued to send business there way from my contacts .

I wish you luck in future and like has been said previously, don't let anyone take advantage of you again.
Good luck tomorrow.

OldMrBrennan83

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