Council outbidding FTB

arbour

I have been outbid by the County Council on numerous properties around my area in recent months. I am a FTB, with the prices going up and up houses are gradually getting towards my max price range.

Bascially , the council are preventing me from buying a property . Is there any comeback here? I doubt there is but it doesn't seem right that they are buying up most lower price range houses in the whole postcode.These are the properties that FTB are more likely to be after too.

Gumbo

DCC got into a bidding war with other bidders for my friends house in D7 recently.
Looks like the councils are buying single houses again.

johnnyskeleton

arbour wrote: »

Bascially , the council are preventing me from buying a property . Is there any comeback here? I doubt there is but it doesn't seem right that they are buying up most lower price range houses in the whole postcode.These are the properties that FTB are more likely to be after too.

Nope. All the political capital is with social housing tenants and with people who bought houses with massive mortgages pre 2008. Official Ireland doesnt care about people trying to buy now or private renters, and its positively against residential investors and people who it percieves as buying at the bottom of the market.

So theres no point complaining to your local TD or counsellor, because odds are their agenda is social housing and maintaining increasing house prices.

For what its worth I have a lot of sympathy for you, so I dont mean to be unkind with the above.

ThisRegard

kceire wrote: »

DCC got into a bidding war with other bidders for my friends house in D7 recently.
Looks like the councils are buying single houses again.

They're at it a while, a couple of years ago a Dublin council bought a friends house that was put on the market, and there's a variety of housing charities at it too.

mickmac76

No there's nothing to be done about this sort of problem. County councils now prefer single houses to huge housing estates filled with tenants as its less likely to lead to social problems in the years to come. Also the county councils are being provided with a substantial amount of money to buy houses and try to end the housing crises.

this happened to us and i went to my local councilor who contacted DCC procurement and complained. They could have bought 3 houses which were available and housed 3 families for what they bid on mine.

Long story short, They pulled out, I was then next bid and we are now in the house we wanted. Don't listen to here say (not down playing any other posts)
nothing is set in stone. I remember posters telling me, "tough" or "nothing can be done etc" well I'm afraid it could and it was and we got the house. We may have been very lucky but as I said, going your own extra mile might work in your favour...persistence!!!

Also DCC had some choice words for the agent who used their offer to up the price. apparently he used them as a bogeyman with deep pockets!!

The_Conductor

The theory behind buying single properties- is there is far better community integration- and less 'ghetto'isation' for council tenants- where they are liberally sprinkled throughout communities- rather than in blocks. This is the conventional wisdom- and indeed, the policy that the larger local authorities are actively following. Its unfortunate that you're getting caught up in the mess- on the brightside- secondhand prices are actually falling in Dublin and parts of Cork and Galway- possibly more than the loss of the first-time-buyers grant might be- I'd give serious consideration to taking a more holistic approach to the market- it could very well be the case that its more worth your while abandoning the FTB market- and instead exploring other properties?

daheff

Sold my house recently to a charity. They absolutely overbid the property to get rid of the competition...their bids went up in 10Ks


While it was great for me, its not great for your average person trying to buy a property. This is going to be a bigger problem in the future though.

We now have REITs as well as a lot of people who are renting out apartments they bought in the boom (and cant now sell) and now local authorities/charities buying up properties.

REITs/local authorities/charities can always outbid a private buyer.

We (as a society) need to be careful or we will end up in the situation where your average person cant buy a property and has to rent (at exorbitant prices). We'll end up like Germany where most people cant afford to buy where they want to/need to live and have to rent for their life (except we dont have the same reasonably legislated market place.

Professional landlords are needed, local authority housing is needed, but so is privately owned property.

ThisRegard

daheff wrote: »

REITs/local authorities/charities can always outbid a private buyer.

Some, probably all, of the charities (and probably the local authorities) have an upper limit determined by the property type and location. We had one in the last 3 bidding for a property we sold, but the agent had told us at the time at what point they usually stop their bidding at, which they did. Plus if they do win, they can take a while then for the sale to complete.

thierry14

They are it everywhere

They should building to increase supply

Instead like vultures they are killing the market for hard working people buying up decent second hand houses that typically first time buyers couples or families would be buying

They are distorting the market, that is very clear

It's sickening too when you work so hard to just get the mortgage which you will be paying for 35 years and you see the council and charities putting 50 tradesmen into these houses, doing up everything

Professional cleaners, oil tankers, dfs furniture, painters, insulation guys, see them on daily basis doing up decent second houses to a very high standard.

<mod snip>

L1011

thierry14 wrote: »

Professional cleaners, oil tankers, dfs furniture, painters, insulation guys, see them on daily basis doing up decent second houses to a very high standard.

Fittings need to be to the councils standard so they can repair/replace quickly. All well and good saying to keep whatever is there, until you get a tenant crying to Joe Duffy because her boiler needed to be replaced in midwinter or an integrated oven wasn't repairable.

Large private landlords (REITs etc) do exactly the same - it is cheaper in the long run.

thierry14 wrote: »

Nothing should be for free

Social housing is not provided for free

thierry14

L1011 wrote: »

Fittings need to be to the councils standard so they can repair/replace quickly. All well and good saying to keep whatever is there, until you get a tenant crying to Joe Duffy because her boiler needed to be replaced in midwinter or an integrated oven wasn't repairable.

Large private landlords (REITs etc) do exactly the same - it is cheaper in the long run.



Social housing is not provided for free

Haha

How isn't it

How do travelling community, Syrians, unemployed pay when they don't work?

Magic money?

Ayuntamiento

Social housing may not be free but it's provided at a fraction of the price that everybody else pays. Also how aggressively is non-payment followed up?

I'm shocked to hear that the council are buying in high demand places like Dublin 7 when normal working people are forced out into the depths of Kildare/Meath/Carlow and subjected to huge commutes in and out of the city centre.

OP, you're making an excellent point and I really think you should pursue it further- talk to your local politicians, get onto Joe Duffy, write a letter to the Irish Times, etc. Any normal working person can see that this situation is insanity.

thierry14

mickmac76 wrote: »

Also the county councils are being provided with a substantial amount of money to buy houses and try to end the housing crises.

This is the part that I find mind boggling

How are they are ending the housing crisis if they are just buying up second hand houses and competing against paye workers?

The houses they are buying were mostly rented out in the past

Not only are the killing the supply, they are killing rental market too.

They should be building, increasing supply, not competing against us!

daheff

thierry14 wrote: »

How are they are ending the housing crisis if they are just buying up second hand houses and competing against paye workers?

The houses they are buying were mostly rented out in the past

Not only are the killing the supply, they are killing rental market too.

They should be building, increasing supply, not competing against us!

100% agree with you. There are a couple of problems at the moment though

Its cheaper for councils/charities to buy houses in built up areas than to build.
Its quicker for them to buy than build right now.


What should be happening is councils/developers teaming up to have councils prefund X amount so they get a certain number of houses once built.

Ayuntamiento

daheff wrote: »

100% agree with you. There are a couple of problems at the moment though

Its cheaper for councils/charities to buy houses in built up areas than to build.
Its quicker for them to buy than build right now.


What should be happening is councils/developers teaming up to have councils prefund X amount so they get a certain number of houses once built.

That sounds great in principle but do you think a developer would want it getting out that they've promised the council x% of the houses in their estate?

Considering a lot of the new builds going up around Dublin recently are quite high end and are commanding prices of 400k+, I don't think prospective purchasers would be too happy to know that the neighboring property could end up as social housing..

I don't think it would be palatable in general to the majority of struggling taxpayers to hear that high spec new builds (which they themselves can't afford) are being given to people on housing lists.

thierry14

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

That sounds great in principle but do you think a developer would want it getting out that they've promised the council x% of the houses in their estate?

Considering a lot of the new builds going up around Dublin recently are quite high end and are commanding prices of 400k+, I don't think prospective purchasers would be too happy to know that the neighboring property could end up as social housing..

I don't think it would be palatable in general to the majority of struggling taxpayers to hear that high spec new builds (which they themselves can't afford) are being given to people on housing lists.

Thats already happening nationwide

Councils and charities are buying houses in estates that are only a year or two old, in good locations.

They aren't buying new ones yet though your right.

Days of living in estates that are all homeowners are gone, you can't get too upset when social housing, rental homes, are in your estate now, it's the risk you take.

If you want that, build or buy one off in the countryside

daheff

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

That sounds great in principle but do you think a developer would want it getting out that they've promised the council x% of the houses in their estate?

Considering a lot of the new builds going up around Dublin recently are quite high end and are commanding prices of 400k+, I don't think prospective purchasers would be too happy to know that the neighboring property could end up as social housing..

I don't think it would be palatable in general to the majority of struggling taxpayers to hear that high spec new builds (which they themselves can't afford) are being given to people on housing lists.

Builders have to. Its part of the conditions of planning. They have to set aside something like 10% as affordable housing - at a discount for the council. There was something in the papers a while back about it happening in D4 -some apartment block being built which meant the council was buying 10% of units at a cost of something like 750k for 2/3 bed apts.

My point was that if the councils were pre-funding builders, it might get more building up and running (as builders cant get money from the banks at the moment).

Ayuntamiento

daheff wrote: »

Builders have to. Its part of the conditions of planning. They have to set aside something like 10% as affordable housing - at a discount for the council. There was something in the papers a while back about it happening in D4 -some apartment block being built which meant the council was buying 10% of units at a cost of something like 750k for 2/3 bed apts.

My point was that if the councils were pre-funding builders, it might get more building up and running (as builders cant get money from the banks at the moment).

I think it used to be a thing that builders could buy their way out of this social housing obligation to the Council. Maybe not anymore.

I understand that we need to learn from our past mistakes with regard to 'ghettoisation' of certain areas due to large concentrations of social housing, etc.
However, I still don't think it will ever sit right with me that I have to pay full price for my home when somebody gets the house next door for virtually nothing.

What are we as a society saying is the reward for hard work and making good life-choices?

Ayuntamiento

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

PAYE workers on 30k are eligible for social housing in most parts of the country: they aren't regarded as well off enough to buy a house and haven't been for quite some time.

And lots of Syrians have paid plenty of tax before their own country fell apart and likely will do again once they get on their feet here.

I find the highlighted part pretty shocking. But you are 100% correct in saying that a person on 30k is now the working poor.

Realistically a couple would want to be on close to a 100k combined salary in Dublin to have a decent standard of living when you take into account house prices, childcare, cost of running a car, etc.

LirW

PAYE workers on 30k are eligible for social housing in most parts of the country: they aren't regarded as well off enough to buy a house and haven't been for quite some time.

But realistically their chance of getting into social housing is quite small, especially in the cities. And it would be madness for people working moving into the middle of Leitrim, giving up their job just to get housed a lot faster. Catch 22 really.

thierry14

LirW wrote: »

But realistically their chance of getting into social housing is quite small, especially in the cities. And it would be madness for people working moving into the middle of Leitrim, giving up their job just to get housed a lot faster. Catch 22 really.

Agree

A couple on 30k each, haven't a hope of getting a social house or any help for that matter

They are modern day slaves

30k is nothing now and it's like 50% higher than minimum wage, that's depressing, it really is.

Average rent in Dublin is now €60 a day for a 3 bed

I feel for people there.

Back on the original subject I think it's a good idea like a poster said to write to few papers about the council bidding against paye workers for second hand homes and blowing them out of the water in some cases

ED E

thierry14 wrote: »

Freedom of speech my arse

A common misconception. Boards is a private site, you do not have freedom of speech here. Remember they can be sued for what you post.

newacc2015

The fact is second hand housing is often cheaper than a new build. It is cheaper for REITs and councils to build existing properties than build new properties. So they are buying existing properties.

Another reason why they are buying existing properties is because councils are afraid to create ghettos again. Councils have realised you can't put the most marginalised in society in small areas and hope it works out in the end, as it has failed pretty much every time.

If the councils are buying property from the existing housing supply, IMO they should be banned from selling council housing with a law from the Government. I would not put it past a Government or a council in a few years to start selling off houses they paid €200k for in 2017 for about €100k to win some cheap votes under the thinly veiled excuse of 'it saves us money by not having to maintain houses we rarely maintain in the first place'.

Barely Hedged

arbour wrote: »

I have been outbid by the County Council on numerous properties around my area in recent months. I am a FTB, with the prices going up and up houses are gradually getting towards my max price range.

Bascially , the council are preventing me from buying a property . Is there any comeback here? I doubt there is but it doesn't seem right that they are buying up most lower price range houses in the whole postcode.These are the properties that FTB are more likely to be after too.

Email your local TD and councillor and wait for the response. If the response is not satisfactory, go to the papers.

How many stories do you read about "homelessness" and people who need free houses? I can't understand how you're expecting this forum to help you.

The world is a competitive place with the council's heads being turning by housing charities who are lobbying them saying your needs are less important than the people they represent. Well, are your needs less important? Are you going to speak up to your local political representative who can do something about it rather than being another anonymous poster on the internet who's clearly being trodden on?

The_Conductor

Barely hedged- the issue is councils/local authorities have a specific government remit to integrate social housing in communities- and demand for social housing has never ever been at the level its currently at.

The standards local authorities are demanding for new housing units- can only be met from new housing stock- older stock is not compliant with current local authority rules (obviously the units are fully compliant with planning/building regulations that were in place when the units were constructed- however- there is a disconnect there between current LA requirements- and the standards associated with second hand housing stock).

There needs to be a multi-pronged approach here- at the moment all the cards are stacked against the second hand market- and in favour of the limited new housing market.

Prospective landlords do not want to buy second hand property that may be rent controlled.
Local authorities like the higher standards (but smaller sizes) associated with new housing units- in particular their excellent insulation and associated BER ratings- and the manner in which they help integrate clients in the community.
Prospective first-time-buyers loose their tax advantage over other purchasers- if they attempt to buy a second hand dwelling.

The price of second hand units- has fallen month on month in Dublin and Cork- the two areas of highest demand in the country- while the cost of new units is hitting the stratosphere.

The Minister needs to acknowledge he has bolloxed up and meddled in the market in a manner that has been detrimental to almost everyone (aside from developers and builders obviously). Yes- we need new dwellings built- but of a reasonable size- and in locations people want to live. This should not be at the total removal/shutdown of the secondhand market- as has happened.

The Minister is keeping schmum over the whole mess- and indeed- is trying to sell it as a societal good- sure look at the leg up he is giving first-time-buyers- all the while ignoring the haemes he has made of the rest of the market.

Meddling more often that not causes unintended consequences- the galling thing though- is all of the above was spelt out to the Minister- and has come to pass. He had options prepared for him- along with the possible outcomes of each option- he went for the one he thought he could buy a few votes with- not with the options which might have actually made a difference for the good of the country.

As it stands- there is an active disincentive on the part of almost all purchasers- to buy secondhand property. This disincentive *needs* to be quashed.

Lumen

The_Conductor: the intent of the FTBer/new build tax rebate was to boost relative demand for new builds over existing stock, that wasn't an unintended consequence. This is in line with FG's long established policy of free-market fundamentalism.

The_Conductor wrote: »

As it stands- there is an active disincentive on the part of almost all purchasers- to buy secondhand property. This disincentive *needs* to be quashed.

That would go directly against the intent of the current policy.

The_Conductor

Lumen wrote: »

That would go directly against the intent of the current policy.

Exactly.
It is my considered opinion that the intent of the current policy is counter to public good. If you want to encourage construction- fine- do it- but not at the considerable cost to the public, purchasers, sellers, renters- and pretty much every other aspect of the market.

Barely Hedged

The_Conductor wrote: »

Barely hedged- the issue is councils/local authorities have a specific government remit to integrate social housing in communities- and demand for social housing has never ever been at the level its currently at.

I acknowledge what you say, exclusive of this quote, but lets distinguish something here. What ive highlighted above is 90% of the problem and solution. All the rest youve added is insignificant to this. No offence!

Point in case:

rusty cole wrote: »

this happened to us and i went to my local councilor who contacted DCC procurement and complained. They could have bought 3 houses which were available and housed 3 families for what they bid on mine.

Long story short, They pulled out, I was then next bid and we are now in the house we wanted. Don't listen to here say (not down playing any other posts)
nothing is set in stone. I remember posters telling me, "tough" or "nothing can be done etc" well I'm afraid it could and it was and we got the house. We may have been very lucky but as I said, going your own extra mile might work in your favour...persistence!!!

Also DCC had some choice words for the agent who used their offer to up the price. apparently he used them as a bogeyman with deep pockets!!

This is the bloody tax payers money. Demand some accountability and fairness in how its spent.

I sometimes wish that we had a significantly right leaning media outlet to counter balance some of this crap