Dog got into a fight while out walking

mel.b

Looking for some advice here. I was out walking Cooper tonight when he got into it with another dog. Cooper is an almost 4yr old alaskan malmute (neutered). Malamutes are known to not always get along with other dogs, especially those of the same sex. Cooper is always walked on the lead witg a zero dc harness meaning i can get a good hold of him if needed.

I live in a small village and know all the dogs - the ones he likes and the ones he doesn't. If there is a dog he doesn't like i cross the road and thats ok although he may growl at them.

Tonight we were walking past a housing estate that has a large green area out front with a stone wall. Theres a dog in this estate that charges from its house to the stone wall and cooper does not like it. As a result if i see the dog i always make sure to walk on thr opposite side of the road. Tonight i couldn't see the dog so i was walking beside the fence. We got to the entrance of the estate and the dog came charging out of the estate and went straight for Cooper. Cooper of course retaliated:( I managed to pull Cooper off after what was probably somewhere between 15-30 seconds. The other dog was making yelps but i couldn't see any blood. I wasn't getting too close with Cooper though. The other dog ran straight iff back into his house making small yelps.

I'm going to go and chat to the owners later. Can i ask them to keep their dog secure? There are very roads in the village to walk and this is the main one everyone uses for walking. I'm worried now that even by walking on the opposite side that the dog will keep charging out (although maybe he's learnt not to now?!). I could put a muzzle on cooper but if the other dog keeps charging him??

I'm going to give his breeder a call as well to see if she has any advice.

Thanks

njs030

Poor Cooper is he OK?
You can tell them if it happens again you'll be calling the dog warden and the guards! That's happened to me before and I reminded the owner dogs aren't allowed to roam and if there was any damage to my dog they'd be getting a bill.

Edit-i wouldn't put a muzzle on my dog and stop her being able to defend herself when another dog was out of control and attacking her....in fact when the little hellion I mentioned above wasn't stopped I dropped my ladies lead and let her warn him. He didn't come near us again!!

Kristopherus

If the owner of that dog does not co-operate, you should report the incident to the Gardai and the L. A. Dog Warden.

oppenheimer1

notjustsweet wrote: »

Poor Cooper is he OK?
You can tell them if it happens again you'll be calling the dog warden and the guards! That's happened to me before and I reminded the owner dogs aren't allowed to roam and if there was any damage to my dog they'd be getting a bill.

Edit-i wouldn't put a muzzle on my dog and stop her being able to defend herself when another dog was out of control and attacking her....in fact when the little hellion I mentioned above wasn't stopped I dropped my ladies lead and let her warn him. He didn't come near us again!!

The other owner could easily say the same. If two dogs gets into a fight neither owner are in control tbh.

Knine

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The other owner could easily say the same. If two dogs gets into a fight neither owner are in control tbh.

One owner had their dog on the lead. What is the OPs dog supposed to do? Stand there?

This happens to me all the time. It makes walking the dogs quite stressful & then the owners have the gall to complain if my terriers defend themselves when fluffy decides to bite one of them.

To the OP I would just try to avoid that house if possible. I have found that irresponsible owners can see no wrong with their roaming dogs. You could also contact the dog warden.

peasant

mel.b wrote: »

I'm going to go and chat to the owners later. Can i ask them to keep their dog secure?

Of course you can ..and you should.
No dog should be allowed to roam freely and unsupervised, if only in its own interest.

Instead of a muzzle you might also want to look into training your Malamute some more. A dog this big and strong needs to be controllable and you need to find ways (other than just crossing the road) to de-escalate aggressive situations.

SteM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The other owner could easily say the same. If two dogs gets into a fight neither owner are in control tbh.

The other owner would be wrong. The other owner's dog is not on a leash, it is running at and attacking a dog that is. There is one aggressor and one dog defending itself.

Hooked

Muzzle her dog... Train her dog???

Read the OP.

She (Mel.b) was being responsible, walking her dog on lead - and was attacked by an out of control, off lead and unsupervised dog.

Copper defended himself. I've been in this situation twice with my boys (huskies). And each owner, who's dogs were off lead, and not under control, got the full brunt of my anger.

Responsible owners don't allow their dogs to be in situations like the one in Mel.b's story above.

njs030

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The other owner could easily say the same. If two dogs gets into a fight neither owner are in control tbh.

No they couldn't. Ops dog was on a lead so is under adequate control.
The other dog was roaming out of sight of its owner under no control which breaches the control of dogs act.

oppenheimer1

notjustsweet wrote: »

No they couldn't. Ops dog was on a lead so is under adequate control.
The other dog was roaming out of sight of its owner under no control which breaches the control of dogs act.

It's not under control if it gets into a fight with another dog, leash or no leash.

Jayop

Just because your dog won the fight doesn't mean the other owner isn't responsible. I hate the assholes who let their dogs out off lead and out of control. It's a nightmare when you're dogwalking.

Jayop

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's not under control if it gets into a fight with another dog, leash or no leash.

Erm, absolute nonsense. If the other dog is off the lead and attacked her dog then it's in a fight through no fault of mel's and whilst being in control. Victim blaming nonsense. You wouldn't say that if a person got jumped while out walking, they would have done nothing wrong but still be in a fight.

ganmo

dog warden job!

goz83

It sounds to me like a lot of evasive action needs to be taken because the OPs dog is a bit aggressive. Breed aside, if the dog is growling at every other dog and is at risk of injuring, or killing another animal, well then more precautions need to be taken...a muzzle at least...better training ideally...for what is a very beautiful, but also very large dog

SteM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's not under control if it gets into a fight with another dog, leash or no leash.

Sorry, this is rubbish.

peasant

Hooked wrote: »

... Train her dog???

And why the hell not?

It takes two to tango. Real aggressive, bloody dog fights are a very rare occurance ...unless and until things get totally out of control that is.

Most scenes that we leashholders call a "fight" are little more than posturing and noise ...until they escalate.

That's where the training comes in. Stop the fight before it starts, control your dog, control the situation and get to walk away unharmed.


With some people on here (and I don't mean the OP) you would think that they actually WANT their dog to fight (and to fight to win) whenever they feel wronged.

oppenheimer1

Jayop wrote: »

Erm, absolute nonsense. If the other dog is off the lead and attacked her dog then it's in a fight through no fault of mel's and whilst being in control. Victim blaming nonsense. You wouldn't say that if a person got jumped while out walking, they would have done nothing wrong but still be in a fight.

The "well he started it" argument doesn't hold water tbh. When a dog is fighting it is out of control. It's almost the definition of being out of control.

mel.b

Thankyou everyone for your support. Cooper seems to be fine. I am going down to speak to the owners shortly. I will let you know how I get on.

I just want to address this point

peasant wrote: »

Instead of a muzzle you might also want to look into training your Malamute some more. A dog this big and strong needs to be controllable and you need to find ways (other than just crossing the road) to de-escalate aggressive situations.

This other dog literally charged out of its yard, straight to Cooper and was ontop of him in seconds. I had only time to take one or two steps away from the entrance of the estate before he got to Cooper. There was no escalation as such - it was literally seconds. This dog didn't growl at Cooper first, or give me the chance to move or de-escalate anything, it went straight at him. I don't think anyone would be able to de-escalate the situation.

peasant

mel.b wrote: »

I just want to address this point
...
This other dog literally charged out of its yard, straight to Cooper and was ontop of him in seconds. I had only time to take one or two steps away from the entrance of the estate before he got to Cooper. There was no escalation as such - it was literally seconds. This dog didn't growl at Cooper first, or give me the chance to move or de-escalate anything, it went straight at him. I don't think anyone would be able to de-escalate the situation.

Yeah, doesn't sound like there was much you could have done in this particular situation.

Having said that...from your other descriptions it still sounds to me that Cooper could benefit from being a bit cooler and relaxed...self assured and confident without having to bluster...training can do that.

Lancher

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The other owner could easily say the same. If two dogs gets into a fight neither owner are in control tbh.

That comment makes me wonder if you have a dog, and if you do, how often take him for a walk where there might be other dogs.

AryaStark

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's not under control if it gets into a fight with another dog, leash or no leash.

It sounds like it got attacked instead of it getting into a fight. If somebody runs over and jumps on you and you fight back then you have been attacked... just like this dog.

oppenheimer1

Lancher wrote: »

That comment makes me wonder if you have a dog, and if you do, how often take him for a walk where there might be other dogs.

I don't have one anymore. But this thread isn't about me.

Mooooo

Not saying op is at fault as obviously the other dog should be not be loose without owner but if a dispute arose is a malamute not required by law to have a muzzle in public? Could go against the op if disputed. Prob best to ask owner to control other dog and if no satisfaction just call the dog warden. Training may help also if your dog doesn't like others they'll all pick up on it if he can be trained to ignore other dogs to a degree it would make for easier walks as other dogs may not react so much as well

dunnerc

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The "well he started it" argument doesn't hold water tbh. When a dog is fighting it is out of control. It's almost the definition of being out of control.

absolute rubbish post, are you for real ? one dog on a lead is attacked by another dog not on a lead, one man attacks and assaults an innocent man out for a walk for no reason , is the innocent man supposed to turn the other cheek ??

tk123

Mooooo wrote: »

Not saying op is at fault as obviously the other dog should be not be loose without owner but if a dispute arose is a malamute not required by law to have a muzzle in public? Could go against the op if disputed.

No a malamute does not need to be muzzled by law.

The OPs dog was attacked and defended itself. If the OP came on here telling us the dog was bitten and later died from it's injuries (as has happened to posters in the past) everyone who's blaming them would be singing a different tune.

oppenheimer1

dunnerc wrote: »

absolute rubbish post, are you for real ? one dog on a lead is attacked by another dog not on a lead, one man attacks and assaults an innocent man out for a walk for no reason , is the innocent man supposed to turn the other cheek ??

Two men get into a brawl both will be arrested and cautioned. It won't matter a jot who started it.

Having the dog on the lead doesn't automatically confer that the owner is in control. In this case there were obviously several seconds where the owner lost control but the leash helped her regain it.

Jayop

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Two men get into a brawl both will be arrested and cautioned.

Having the dog on the lead doesn't automatically confer that the owner is in control. In this case there were obviously several seconds where the owner lost control but the leash helped her regain it.

No, one man attacks another man whilst he's minding his own business. The attacked party defends himself then he's done nothing wrong, both morally and in the eyes of the law.

I wouldn't like you to be a guard if I was reporting being attacked.

njs030

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Two men get into a brawl both will be arrested and cautioned.

Having the dog on the lead doesn't automatically confer that the owner is in control. In this case there were obviously several seconds where the owner lost control but the leash helped her regain it.

A dog roaming the streets automatically is a breach of the control of dogs act.

Which is what the op asked.

dunnerc

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Two men get into a brawl both will be arrested and cautioned. It won't matter a joy who started it.

Having the dog on the lead doesn't automatically confer that the owner is in control. In this case there were obviously several seconds where the owner lost control but the leash helped her regain it.

2 men didn't get into a brawl, read my post again
1 man attacks an innocent man out for a walk, you are entitled to defend yourself ,both most definitely wont be arrested and cautioned only the one who assaulted an innocent man.there obviously was no seconds where the owner of the dog on the lead lost control ,read the ops post again !!

RD10

Well the fact you had ur dog under control by means of a leash, its not ur fault.
That dog that came charging out of the house to attack your dog (whether ur dog retaliated or not) should not be left free to roam around like that if he has an aggressive behavioural issue with other dogs and a tendancy to attack.
If i were you i'd speak to the owners of the dog just so they are aware the dog charged out at you and ur dog. it could be a lot worse next time.

mel.b

AryaStark wrote: »

It sounds like it got attacked instead of it getting into a fight. If somebody runs over and jumps on you and you fight back then you have been attacked... just like this dog.

Yes I think attacked is better word than fight. There is no doubt this dog attacked Cooper without any warning or provocation (other than Cooper being there). Cooper didn't even see the dog coming until it was on him as he was facing the other way. There were also several kids who saw it all happen

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Having the dog on the lead doesn't automatically confer that the owner is in control. In this case there were obviously several seconds where the owner lost control but the leash helped her regain it.

You may think otherwise, but I would deny in this case that I wasn't in control of Cooper. Cooper was not aware of the dog coming for him until the dog was on him and I don't know of anyone who could have stopped him (or another dog) from reacting instinctively.

I have been and spoken to the owner and he wasn't aware that his dog had been in a fight so thankfully no significant injuries. I asked him several times to keep his dog secure and he said he will 'sort it out' whatever that means but also made excuses about it being 'that time of night' (ie/ evenings, cars coming and going, gates not being shut) and that the kids in the estate don't help as they call him out (not in this case, the kids were near Cooper as they had just been patting him). So only time will tell i guess. If it happens again I will be notifying the dog warden.

As mentioned above also, malamutes are not required to be muzzled.

RD10

mel.b wrote: »

Yes I think attacked is better word than fight. There is no doubt this dog attacked Cooper without any warning or provocation (other than Cooper being there). Cooper didn't even see the dog coming until it was on him as he was facing the other way. There were also several kids who saw it all happen



You may think otherwise, but I would deny in this case that I wasn't in control of Cooper. Cooper was not aware of the dog coming for him until the dog was on him and I don't know of anyone who could have stopped him (or another dog) from reacting instinctively.

I have been and spoken to the owner and he wasn't aware that his dog had been in a fight so thankfully no significant injuries. I asked him several times to keep his dog secure and he said he will 'sort it out' whatever that means but also made excuses about it being 'that time of night' (ie/ evenings, cars coming and going, gates not being shut) and that the kids in the estate don't help as they call him out (not in this case, the kids were near Cooper as they had just been patting him). So only time will tell i guess. If it happens again I will be notifying the dog warden.

As mentioned above also, malamutes are not required to be muzzled.

i'd be concerned about those kids safety aswell. dog obviously has behavioural issues. you wouldnt want one of them to get caught up in anything like that if it happened again.

Mooooo

tk123 wrote: »

No a malamute does not need to be muzzled by law.

The OPs dog was attacked and defended itself. If the OP came on here telling us the dog was bitten and later died from it's injuries (as has happened to posters in the past) everyone who's blaming them would be singing a different tune.

Not blaming anyone hence the ? In my post re the muzzle, just wasn't sure what was on the rb list. As I said approach owner and if no luck dog warden. May as well be try to be civil first if nobody has complained about the loose dog the owner may be ignorant to what's happening

tk123

Mooooo wrote: »

he owner may be ignorant to what's happening

Yeah I agree about approaching but I think owners like that always are ignorant - or pretend to be! I know my neighbours were when they had complaints about barking from surrounding roads yet they couldn't hear their dog. (I was banned from knocking down to them at 2am one morning when he was at it hours :rolleyes:)

muddypaws

I have met Cooper, and seen him around dogs, Mel B was in control of him then, and he had no issue with the other dogs, but the other dog owners were also responsible and in control of their dogs. Malamutes as a breed are known for their lack of tolerance of other dogs, something that Mel B is obviously aware of if you read her opening post.

I'm glad the other dog isn't injured, and would hope he will now steer clear, but unfortunately it may be the opposite, hopefully he won't get the chance, as the owners will keep him in from now on.

I hope you're OK, things like this can shake you up.

peasant

muddypaws wrote: »

...Malamutes as a breed are known for their lack of tolerance of other dogs..

Malamutes (and Akitas and other nordic/Spitz breeds) also have another "problem" ...in that they naturally carry their tail over their back.

To "regular" dogs this high up tail signals the utmost in swagger and confidence ...to the point of provocation and some don't take it well

So you got a bit of a vicious circle going on there.

AryaStark

peasant wrote: »

Malamutes (and Akitas and other nordic/Spitz breeds) also have another "problem" ...in that they naturally carry their tail over their back.

To "regular" dogs this high up tail signals the utmost in swagger and confidence ...to the point of provocation and some don't take it well

So you got a bit of a vicious circle going on there.

This makes sense... Nymeria also carries her tail on top and she walks around like she owns it! She is very confident and forward! Aragon, the black collie lost his tail in a car accident years ago... made him hard to read at the start but only for a while He learned how to let you know in other ways!!!

muddypaws

peasant wrote: »

Malamutes (and Akitas and other nordic/Spitz breeds) also have another "problem" ...in that they naturally carry their tail over their back.

To "regular" dogs this high up tail signals the utmost in swagger and confidence ...to the point of provocation and some don't take it well

So you got a bit of a vicious circle going on there.

:pac::pac::pac: That made me laugh, the malamute strut

mel.b

Oh there's definite swagger there

Latatian

The people talking about training the dog- I walk by aggressive dogs every day, on leash.

If they're on leash, if they are not allowed to approach my dog, it doesn't matter that they are aggressive. I would ten times rather have the snarling leashed hell-beast, on a leash, held by someone responsible enough to keep their dog under control, than the happy hyper dog who will knock my dog over and injure her. If you are keeping your dog away from mine and away from me, and you can do that, then it's under control.

peasant

Latatian wrote: »

The people talking about training the dog- I walk by aggressive dogs every day, on leash.

If they're on leash, if they are not allowed to approach my dog, it doesn't matter that they are aggressive.

What does matter though is what that does to your dog.
After such a confrontation, is your dog high on adrenalin and upset...or has it learned (been trained to) ignore all that bluster and stay calm.

See what i mean by training?

Latatian

Doesn't matter how well my dog has been trained, once it's been picked up and shook, or got a bad wound, it takes months, upon months, upon months of training to get any way back to where we were. And that's with a resilient little dog. Not every dog can be resilient. And you know what? They simply should not have to be. That is just an excuse given by negligent owners.

All of the above is something that could be completely avoided if other people were not irresponsible dog owners to begin with.


No matter the training of your dog- no matter the genetic ability to cope with fear- it's always the responsibility of other people to keep their dog away from yours just like it's your responsibility to keep your dog away from theirs. And to keep your dog away from, say, people or children who are afraid of dogs.

peasant

Latatian wrote: »

All of the above is something that could be completely avoided if other people were not irresponsible dog owners to begin with.

I think that is something we all can agree on.

mel.b

Latatian wrote: »

Doesn't matter how well my dog has been trained, once it's been picked up and shook, or got a bad wound, it takes months, upon months, upon months of training to get any way back to where we were. And that's with a resilient little dog. Not every dog can be resilient. And you know what? They simply should not have to be. That is just an excuse given by negligent owners.

All of the above is something that could be completely avoided if other people were not irresponsible dog owners to begin with.


No matter the training of your dog- no matter the genetic ability to cope with fear- it's always the responsibility of other people to keep their dog away from yours just like it's your responsibility to keep your dog away from theirs. And to keep your dog away from, say, people or children who are afraid of dogs.

I so agree with this post! 90%+ of dogs i see while out with Cooper are off the lead. I just tell people now to put their dog on a lead before they get near us. However I was out walking one day and there was a dog coming so I stopped, moved off the path (was in a woodland area) and made Cooper sit. The dog came up close to Cooper and then the owners finally called him back. Instead of putting their dog on the lead, they put a muzzle on it and then let it go again...WTF:mad::mad:

Latatian

Sorry, I have a little deaf dog so this is a bit of a touchy subject for me. My intention is not to be cross.

I usually just hear 'oh you should train her' in the context of people who have just let their out-of-control untrained dogs badly frighten, or hurt, mine. I spend a lot of time training her and much of it is undoing this kind of damage.

Hey, we got kicked out of a reactive dog class because in the midst of all the barking dogs mine just sat for biscuits. But even then if another dog attacks her it would be unreasonable to expect her not to fight back.

Kamili

I had similar happen to me, except my dog came off worst and needed a vet visit. Nothing serious just bruising. However I had my dog on a lead and had to fight off the other dog after it came running unleashed out of the driveway of the house it resided in. Owner sat there and laughed at the whole proceeding. I sent a mail complaint to the warden and he then called round, took details and knocked on the owners door. The owner got a warning and a fine as a result.

the people in the area got wind of it and thanked me, as it had happened to them too, but they didn't know what to do about it.

peasant

peasant wrote: »

What does matter though is what that does to your dog.
After such a confrontation, is your dog high on adrenalin and upset...or has it learned (been trained to) ignore all that bluster and stay calm.

See what i mean by training?

A dog should be entitled to fight back in self defence not have it trained out of him. The ops dog was dead right to fight back, if I were the op I wouldn't be in the least bit concerned about the situation and even if the other dog was injured he deserved it.

Do you carry a stick when walking op? If not you should.

sillysmiles

I have in the past had to call into a neighbours house after there rottie came across the road to attack my dog. Their dog is normally not out and normally not at the front of the house and they were great about it. I've never had a problem with that dog since.

Talking to them is a good place to start and then after that escalate if things don't improve.