Didn't Change Vehicle Address and Got Summons

mtk2

Hi There,

I have a summons for an unpaid speed camera fine. I didn't receive the fine in the post as I would have certainly paid it rather than be facing big fine and 5 points

However my main worry is down to the fact that I didn't change my Vehicle's address once I moved to my new house in Jan 2016. So basically I had my car registered at my old address for almost 1 year before I registered it to my new address (Jan 2017). Totally stupid I know but I had been calling regularly to collect old post from the old house (was friends with the old housemates) and just didn't get around to it.

I'm going to tell the judge that I didn't receive the fine and I'll pay the €120 fine right now as I was doing 10km over the limit based on speed camera van photo and I'm really sorry / this is the last place I want to be.

I will also say that I didn't change my address for almost 1 year if he asks and I will say it was stupid of me and apologise but I'm afraid this will not help my case at all?

Any advice much appreciated!! I'm quite stressed about it all

Thanks,

MTK

hullaballoo

I normally don't comment on these threads but it is unlikely you will be able to evade the 5 points. Once you are convicted of the offence, the judge doesn't have discretion not to apply the points. Judges have no say in the penalty points system as these are administrative sanctions implemented by the RSA.

If you want to spend money on a solicitor, there might be some angle they can come up with if they have all of the facts/documentation in front of them but there's no guarantee. If it was me, I would pay a solicitor either way but some people think that's 2 x the punishment.

Pat Mustard

mtk2 wrote: »

Any advice much appreciated!! I'm quite stressed about it all

Yes, in view of the number of penalty points on conviction, you would be wise to hire a solicitor and pay a €150 legal fee (or whatever).

Effects

Try and pay the fine now. You'll get proof that you at least tried to pay.
Then when it goes to court bring proof that you had changed address, have an excuse for having not changed vehicle registered address and have the proof that you tried to pay as soon as you found out about the fine.

It happened to a friend of mine last year and they didn't receive any points as a result of it going to court. They didn't bother with a solicitor as it was in a court down the country.

coylemj

mtk2 wrote: »

I'm going to tell the judge that I didn't receive the fine and I'll pay the €120 fine right now .....

You're going to pay the fine now and then tell the judge that you never received it

Even if you have the original ticket, I believe the system will refuse to accept payment once a summons has has been issued, pretty sure that that applies to parking as well.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

mtk2

Hi coylemj,

No, I will state to the Judge that I'm willing to pay the original fine there and then. As you say I can't pay it now even if I wanted to.

My rationale is that I want to show to the Judge that I would have paid original fine if I had received it, rather than have a day out in court!

mtk2

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

from Garda.ie FAQ:

I have lost my notice and now it is too late to pay, what can I do?
The legislation does not allow for payment after the 56 day period has passed. After this time a summons will issue automatically, this process cannot be interrupted.

coylemj

mtk2 wrote: »

Hi coylemj,

No, I will state to the Judge that I'm willing to pay the original fine there and then. As you say I can't pay it now even if I wanted to.

My rationale is that I want to show to the Judge that I would have paid original fine if I had received it, rather than have a day out in court!

If the judge decides that the notice (1) was sent to the correct address i.e. the address of the registered owner and (2) it was received at that address - then I believe he will convict you, impose a fine and the higher penalty points.

I don't believe that offering to pay the original fine will get you anywhere. As per the quote you posted from the Garda FAQ, once you're in court, different rules apply because the option to pay the original fine is no longer on the table.

If you tell the judge that you didn't receive it because of a failure to notify a change of address, that will probably count for nothing.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Effects

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nope. There's a certain cut off date for paying the fine.
As I said, it happened to a friend last year. Garda in local station said to make the attempted payment so proof of attempt would be registered.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Effects

coylemj wrote: »

If you tell the judge that you didn't receive it because of a failure to notify a change of address, that will probably count for nothing.

It's at the Judge's discretion, isn't it? So depends on the Judge, his/her current mood, what your excuse is.

It's not that the OP decided to not pay the fine.

Effects

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Does that apply to the OP seeing as the fine was issue in January 2016?

EDIT: Don't think there was a mention when fine was issued.

GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I believe you can still pay the fine at any stage up until the court date.

You can pay a summons after the 56 day period up until 7 days before trial date as shown on the summons.

If you pay up until 7 days before the trial date the proceedings must be discontinued and there is no obligation to show up in court.

Edit - see post further on

nuac

GM228 wrote: »

You can pay a summons after the 56 day period up until 7 days before trial date as shown on the summons.

If you pay up until 7 days before the trial date the proceedings must be discontinued and there is no obligation to show up in court.

Check that with a solicitor appearing in that court

mtk2

just rang the payment line but they said it's too late

I've had the summons for about a week... was handed into my old address and the old housemates contacted me then....

I shoulda done my homework... I assumed it was impossible to pay after 56 days so didnt try and call. That was stupid argggghhh

Thanks for all the responses tho!!

GM228

nuac wrote: »

Check that with a solicitor appearing in that court

I did previously (and also with a Guard who is a family member and well up with these issues), it's a specific legislative provision - I'll dig it out for you.

EDIT - see post further on

mtk2

just phoned the payment line again (0504 59800) and asked what is the latest date u can pay / can you pay up to 7 days before the court date and they said definitely not.

hullaballoo

mtk2 wrote: »

just rang the payment line but they said it's too late. Summons date is 14 Nov 2016. Court date is tomorrow.

I've had the summons for about a week... was handed into my old address and the old housemates contacted me then....

I shoulda done my homework... I assumed it was impossible to pay after 56 days so didnt try and call. That was stupid argggghhh

Thanks for all the responses tho!!

Solicitor time, seriously.

As I said, I have my doubts about the efficacy of a defence that says, "I didn't pay the fine for the first offence because I was committing another offence for the past year." Who knows? It might work if you have the appropriate professional who knows what way of phrasing that might work with the judge?

GM228

Ok, I checked with my brother and he clarified, I'm slightly wrong with the showing up in court part, although I did discuss this previously with a solicitor, I must have taken him up wrong - apologies.


There is no legal impediment to paying past 56 days.

Payment as per the prescribed 56 day period is provided for under S37 of the Road Traffic Act 2010, however it has to this day never commenced meaning a payment date cut off of a FCPN has no standing according to law.

And here's where the 7 day before proceedings comes from from the same Act (but also as yet not commenced).

Payment of fixed charge on service of summons

44.— (1) A person who is served with a summons in respect of a fixed charge offence may pay a fixed charge of an amount as stated in the fixed charge notice served with the summons on the person in respect of the fixed charge offence and in the manner as specified in the notice not later than 7 days before the date specified in the summons on which the charge is to be heard by the court. If the person pays the fixed charge in the manner as specified in the notice within that period proceedings in respect of the alleged offence will be discontinued and the person need not attend the court on the day specified in the summons.

As you can see the above would have allowed you to legally ignore a court summons if you paid a FCPN up to 7 days before court date.

But as S37 never commenced currently there is nothing legally from preventing you from paying a FCPN before you attend court and bringing this to the attention of the judge.


What I find interesting about this is the 2014 emergency legislation to deal with the legal loopholes in the penalty points system seems to have missed this.

mtk2

thanks for reply GM....

hullaballoo, I spoke to my solicitor last week and she said that I should just state what I'm stating here and there's a chance I might get off (based on not receiving) fine... and there wasn't much she could offer in terms of defending me... (prob not a good sign haha)...

Well... I'm gonna give it a go and hope for the best... not much more I can do now I think...

Kimbot

mtk2 wrote: »

thanks for reply GM....

hullaballoo, I spoke to my solicitor last week and she said that I should just state what I'm stating here and there's a chance I might get off (based on not receiving) fine... and there wasn't much she could offer in terms of defending me... (prob not a good sign haha)...

Well... I'm gonna give it a go and hope for the best... not much more I can do now I think...

If the judge is in bad mood they will say its your own fault for not receiving it as you didnt change the address on your car. Its worth a shot just explaining things and see how you get on tho.

hullaballoo

If your solicitor doesn't want to appear with you, you can ask her to ring a barrister to do it. There are plenty of junior barristers who will happily do road traffic matters for private clients (as opposed to legal aid) for a fee similar to what PM has suggested.

mtk2

just one thing I forgot to mention but dunno does it mean anything...:

The summons was never served to me personally. It was dropped into my old house and one of the guys called me and said it was there. I presume I can't pretend I never got it....

Kimbot

mtk2 wrote: »

just one thing I forgot to mention but dunno does it mean anything...:

The summons was never served to me personally. It was dropped into my old house and one of the guys called me and said it was there. I presume I can't pretend I never got it....

Then how would you know about the court case etc? Trust me just tell them the truth.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

mtk2

ah ya that's what I thought... just said I'd ask the question.

mtk2

Thanks everyone for your advice / comments. Really appreciate it! I will post here after court.

hullaballoo

Presumably the OP was hanged from the gallows what with there being no update at this stage.

mtk2

hullaballoo wrote: »

Presumably the OP was hanged from the gallows what with there being no update at this stage.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Had my day out in court this morning... lots of waiting around... judge had no sympathy when he heard the didn't change address story but he did take into consideration that I had no previous convictions. Got a €120 fine and I'm guessing I'm going to the acquire 5 lovely penalty points too...

hullaballoo, you were prob right in advising getting counsel but was a bit late in the day.

If I don't get the points then I think it was a result tbh... the lesson I've learnt is that if u don't pay attention to mundane stuff like changing car address etc then it can be costly!!

mtk2

one fella was brought there in cuffs... he was accused on driving around on 3 wheels (was trying to imagine how that'd work) and the guards found him by following the grooves in the road where the hub had dug into it!!!!

ezra_

hullaballoo wrote: »

Presumably the OP was hanged from the gallows what with there being no update at this stage.

Depends - was it Mod deletion - no names, no packdrill etc.

hullaballoo

mtk2 wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Had my day out in court this morning... lots of waiting around... judge had no sympathy when he heard the didn't change address story but he did take into consideration that I had no previous convictions. Got a €120 fine and I'm guessing I'm going to the acquire 5 lovely penalty points too...

hullaballoo, you were prob right in advising getting counsel but was a bit late in the day.

If I don't get the points then I think it was a result tbh... the lesson I've learnt is that if u don't pay attention to mundane stuff like changing car address etc then it can be costly!!

As I said earlier, the points part are an automatic result of the criminal conviction. It's an administrative sanction applied by the RSA and has nothing to do with the judge. The only leeway the judge had was not to convict you, but you were convicted and fined.

There is a slight chance you won't receive the points if the Garda doesn't report the conviction to the RSA but you'd be relying on the prosecuting Garda being completely inept and IIRC, there is just one Garda in every sitting tasked with recording convictions and forwarding on to RSA - usually a Sergeant desk-jockey type.

Mr. Incognito

I didn't receive the fine in the post as I would have certainly paid it

If you had said this it should have been thrown out.

mtk2

Yeah I know and other people did too... but I was afraid if they'd figure that I was not living there in a long time and I said nothing about it, I'd get a bigger fine. But in hindsight maybe I should have chanced it.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

mtk2

no, not at all...

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Victor

Um, have you updated your address?

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you had said this it should have been thrown out.

This would hardly be the fault of the state or the postal system.