Confusing Family Problems

DukeOfTheSharp

Sorry if this goes on for a bit, this has been simmering for a long while now:

There are some major familial problems happening as of late. It's becoming more and more of an issue the last few months, but there are some serious problems happening at home that have started to get out of hand. I live with the parents - just finished with college and searching for a job - and unfortunately my older brother lives here too. The biggest issue is how unwilling my parents are to deal with his way of living: he's in his 30s, never had a job longer than a few months, doesn't pay his way, has done three courses, only finished one and has given up on two others, and never bothered to continue the career that completed course was in. On top of that, he's becoming more and more aggressive as the months have gone on, which seem to correlate to his joining a gym. He has squared up to me at least twice when minor medical issues he ignored became larger and worried my parents, as I supported their concerns. More than once he has physically stopped me from leaving a room when I refused to listen to his bizarre and unstable rants about how unfair his life is.

When trying to broach the subject with my parents, they routinely ignore his growing instability. To be honest, I think they legitimately fear what he might do if they told him he had to get a job and pay his way, as he loses his mind over the smallest of inconveniences. More worrying is the fact that they seem to sleep better and act less cagey when he's away for the rare few days he leaves home (he's never actually lived anywhere else). This is most likely down to how irrationally angry he becomes if he doesn't get a lift into the nearest bus stop/gym when he wants it, and walks about with a face like a baboon's arse, and how aggressive he becomes when the fact he needs a driver's license is alluded to, which would solve most of these problems.

I pay whatever I can when it comes to bills and petrol if I require a lift, and will do my best to help around the house whenever I can, yet despite this, my parents have begun to pressure me into getting a job (which I am seriously trying to do) and act as if I'm taking advantage of them. I've done everything in my power to help them out, but the longer this has gone on, the worse this gets. This isn't a new issue though (I have a therapist to talk about that issue). Has anyone dealt with this before? Or something similar? I'm at the end of my rope and contemplating just leaving, getting a house-share and living with the financial consequences, along with never speaking to them again out of concern that my mental health might get worse dealing with all of this.

Big Bag of Chips

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

I'm... contemplating just leaving, getting a house-share and living with the financial consequences

Best thing you'll ever do.

It might seem unfair but how your parents deal with your brother is not your business. If you can afford to move out, do. You're an adult. And just because your brother is lazing around being a drain and a burden to your parents, doesn't mean you're entitled to be too. I know that's not what you're saying but, you both should be paying your way at home. Your parents might know it's not worth the fight with your brother. Maybe they're even afraid of him a bit? And they know you are more reasonable and more likely to act like an adult and contribute to the household.

If you can, move out. It's the next logical step in your adult life. Leave your parents to deal with your brother. Don't go down the route of never speaking to them again though. From my reading of it your parents haven't done anything to warrant you cutting them out of your life.

Ursus Horribilis

I too think you should move out for all the reasons BBOC has outlined. Where I disagree with your plan is where you speak of cutting contact with them. That's coming more like an amped up version of teenager flouncing out of the room slamming some doors. While you definitely need to have your own space so that you can distance yourself from this, I feel it's important you stay in touch with your parents.

They're in a horrible situation here. They're stuck living with a volatile individual who they're struggling to handle. They're probably hoping that if you go, it'll calm him down. Emotions get complicated when it's your own child who's the headcase. They will have very conflicted feelings about him and that'll never change. The story of your parents and this older brother is far from over. Nobody knows what twists and turns lie in store. Your parents might yet need you for advice or help. For that alone I'd keep the channels of communication open.

LynnGrace

Yes, if at all possible, try to move out.

It's not your burden to shoulder; your parents have decided apparently that this is the way to deal with your brother. The situation sounds as if it could have detrimental effects on your own health, and you need to protect against that as much as possible.

All the best, I hope that things improve for you.

readyletsgo

Been through this with an eldest sister. Never worked, lived at home, degrees coming out if her ears, parents paying for everything. And the abuse she would give my dad was ridiculous, going onto physical abuse. Always arguing with us. But wouldn't move out. This went on for 15 years, from when I was small till mid 20s I had to move out. But things got worse, so much so, that we had an 'intervention'. Didn't go to plan at the time, she went crazy, thought we were the best family with no problems at all. It was a very tough time. Parents did not help at all. But she did move to another country got a job and now married, took a few years after intervention but it happened.

All I can advise is, get a job, anything at all, save up a deposit for a month or two, set a date and move out, for your own sanity. Be there for your parents of course, but get on with your own life, your parents won't change the way they treat him. Maybe your brother will eventually see what you're doing and follow suit. Maybe.

It's a very tough situation to be in at the end of the day, I wish you the best!

DukeOfTheSharp

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Best thing you'll ever do.

It might seem unfair but how your parents deal with your brother is not your business. If you can afford to move out, do. You're an adult. And just because your brother is lazing around being a drain and a burden to your parents, doesn't mean you're entitled to be too. I know that's not what you're saying but, you both should be paying your way at home. Your parents might know it's not worth the fight with your brother. Maybe they're even afraid of him a bit? And they know you are more reasonable and more likely to act like an adult and contribute to the household.

If you can, move out. It's the next logical step in your adult life. Leave your parents to deal with your brother. Don't go down the route of never speaking to them again though. From my reading of it your parents haven't done anything to warrant you cutting them out of your life.

It does kind of feel like my business when I'm in danger of being physically assaulted by him, and their inaction seems to be only compounding the issue. Unfortunately the amount I'm making at the moment gives me little to no options, and while some friends are contemplating moving to an apartment, they've already been bouncing around from apartments to home, and house-shares seem increasingly rare and/or a massive risk, so options are incredibly limited.

Cutting them out is my therapists idea, as this is not the first time they've done something like this, and the last time it put my sister 10k in debt. That's the feeling I get when it comes to this situation; eventually I'll be the fool with the (very minor) cash reserve they guilt into bankrolling some ridiculous endeavor and I'll get it in the neck later when it goes wrong.

DukeOfTheSharp

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I too think you should move out for all the reasons BBOC has outlined. Where I disagree with your plan is where you speak of cutting contact with them. That's coming more like an amped up version of teenager flouncing out of the room slamming some doors. While you definitely need to have your own space so that you can distance yourself from this, I feel it's important you stay in touch with your parents.

They're in a horrible situation here. They're stuck living with a volatile individual who they're struggling to handle. They're probably hoping that if you go, it'll calm him down. Emotions get complicated when it's your own child who's the headcase. They will have very conflicted feelings about him and that'll never change. The story of your parents and this older brother is far from over. Nobody knows what twists and turns lie in store. Your parents might yet need you for advice or help. For that alone I'd keep the channels of communication open.

I've actually posted this in reply to another user, but this is a therapist's idea. This is the second time they've enabled someone in our family, and the last time it detrimentally effected my older sister in a huge way. The main issue is that they seem totally unable to put two-and-two together and see that in enabling this mentality, they're making things worse for us. I get what you're saying, but this situation isn't isolated, and will only end badly for me if I stick around or keep in contact with them. The biggest problem I face is that even if I did keep contact and they did, eventually, ask for my help, how would that even work? Or would the help be purely financial and put me in the same position as my sister? There's a danger that they'll simply guilt me into 'helping', which cripples me moving forward.

freshpopcorn

I won't go into to much detail here.
Your parents see that you are proactive and will be fine in life once you get a job and a place to live and that you'll be happier being away from home.
They also know that your brother is basically with them for good and that he'll always have these difficulties that he has now. They probably blame themselves in a way.
So my advice is try and pick up work in some shape or forum and move into a house share or friends. Don't limit yourself to staying in the one area either!

Bambi985

hi OP. Sorry for what you're going through.

It can be hard to be the "well" sibling. The one that doesn't cause any trouble or give any cause for concern. your brother is currently draining your parents' energy and causing them a lot of grief, and they're responding by forgiving him for his behaviour and letting him away with blue murder to all intents and purposes. so you feel as though it's one standard for him and another for you.

i too grew up with an unwell sibling, and another sibling who was very demanding, who took and took from my parents and used my mother as a crutch. I was the middle child, the one who could always sort herself out and never caused trouble or worry or ever asked for anything.

partly because that was my personality but also because i had to be. i couldn't be another problem for my already-burdened parents.as a result i moved out, created my own life and never looked for support financial or otherwise.

that's the only option i see for you here. Take responsibility for yourself and try to turn a blind eye to your brother and how your parents are enabling him. it will never change - trust me i know from experience.

you might always feel a bit "hard done by" by virtue of the fact that you're a functioning responsible adult who is doing things by the book (honestly, i still do sometimes) but at least you'll have your own shot at happiness and independence regardless of what's going on in your family.

Big Bag of Chips

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

It does kind of feel like my business when I'm in danger of being physically assaulted by him, and their inaction seems to be only compounding the issue.

But you're all adults. So you should be sorting out your own issues. Just because he's your brother doesn't mean it's up to your parents to resolve your arguments. You are in a situation where you feel you are in danger of being assaulted by another adult. Take the fact that he is your brojther out of it. What is the best course of action for you? To remove yourself from the situation or stay and continue to live with the risk of being assaulted.

As two grown adults, it is not really down to your parents to sort it out. I'm guessing they are intimidated by your brother. It's an awful situation, but it is one they, as adults, will deal with themselves in the way they deem most appropriate. Being an adult is one thing, but being a parent brings it's own complications. Even though you know what should be done, it's not always so easy to just do it.

You don't have that link and loyalty to your brother, so you don't need to feel responsible for him. I understand that right now moving out isn't an option. But now is the time where you start putting things in place so that you can move out, sooner rather than later. Applying for better jobs etc. Your home situation is unlikely to change, no matter how unfair you think it is. There are too many other people and too many variables involved to make this a simple case of your parents sorting out your older brother.

All you can do is look out for yourself. You can't loan money you don't have, so just say 'no' if asked. You might feel guilty, you might be made to feel guilty, but if you stick to your guns then there's not much can be done about it.

Taking your brother out of the situation for a moment, now is the age where you should be starting to branch out on your own anyway. So start putting your plans in place. I don't know if cutting off contact with your parents is necessary, maybe it is, but a bit of distance can make a huge difference, for everyone involved.

Wesser

I don't understand at all why you think that your biggest problem is your parents reaction. Or that you would consider not talking to them ever again
. What on earth have they done wrong. Your thinking is very twisted.

Very clearly your brother not your parents, is the problem. Your parents are victims. Not the problem. How they choose to react to your brother is not your problem.

Suggest that you get a job and move out If you want to walk yourself into debt then do so. But it is not your parents fault if you do. Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions. draw up a monthly budget if you want to avoid debt. .

DukeOfTheSharp

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

But you're all adults. So you should be sorting out your own issues. Just because he's your brother doesn't mean it's up to your parents to resolve your arguments. You are in a situation where you feel you are in danger of being assaulted by another adult. Take the fact that he is your brojther out of it. What is the best course of action for you? To remove yourself from the situation or stay and continue to live with the risk of being assaulted.

As two grown adults, it is not really down to your parents to sort it out. I'm guessing they are intimidated by your brother. It's an awful situation, but it is one they, as adults, will deal with themselves in the way they deem most appropriate. Being an adult is one thing, but being a parent brings it's own complications. Even though you know what should be done, it's not always so easy to just do it.

You don't have that link and loyalty to your brother, so you don't need to feel responsible for him. I understand that right now moving out isn't an option. But now is the time where you start putting things in place so that you can move out, sooner rather than later. Applying for better jobs etc. Your home situation is unlikely to change, no matter how unfair you think it is. There are too many other people and too many variables involved to make this a simple case of your parents sorting out your older brother.

All you can do is look out for yourself. You can't loan money you don't have, so just say 'no' if asked. You might feel guilty, you might be made to feel guilty, but if you stick to your guns then there's not much can be done about it.

Taking your brother out of the situation for a moment, now is the age where you should be starting to branch out on your own anyway. So start putting your plans in place. I don't know if cutting off contact with your parents is necessary, maybe it is, but a bit of distance can make a huge difference, for everyone involved.

So to break this down by importance: I'm not asking anyone to 'settle things', I'm simply asking that they take his aggression seriously, instead of ignoring it. They play this off like no big deal - which they've been known to do - until it builds to critical mass and someone ends up getting hurt. If I were to call the gardai, even if they witnessed an aggressive event, I'm sure they'd work against me and undermine my concerns. This isn't a situation of being 'unfair' either, simply confusing and wrong-headed.
Trying to put things in place is also difficult because any time I do - as I've said - the goalposts continue to change (15 jobs I'm seemingly qualified for added arbitrary bumps in necessary experience/qualifications only a day or so after they've been advertised, after I had applied) so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

freshpopcorn

OP, you've being told by the majority of people in this thread of what you need to do to change your situation and that's all the advice people can really give you.
You can change yourself but not your parents/brother!

Ursus Horribilis

Duke, you're going to have to accept that nothing you can say or do will make them change their way of dealing with your brother. You mentioned in your original post that you've tried to broach the subject with them. Clearly you got no hearing. They know exactly where you're coming from but they're not going to do anything. I wonder do they want you gone because you're judging them? Families are strange complicated things. In theory your parents would be within their rights to feck your brother out on his ear and stop enabling him. But he's their child and parental love works in weird ways. In short, nothing is going to change. The only person you can control is you.

It must be hell living in that house but you're going to have to put all your energies into finding a job. Have you had someone look at your CV? Have you tried doing interview training? Anything at all to get you out of that house and earning a wage.

DukeOfTheSharp

Wesser wrote: »

I don't understand at all why you think that your biggest problem is your parents reaction. Or that you would consider not talking to them ever again
. What on earth have they done wrong. Your thinking is very twisted.

Very clearly your brother not your parents, is the problem. Your parents are victims. Not the problem. How they choose to react to your brother is not your problem.

Suggest that you get a job and move out If you want to walk yourself into debt then do so. But it is not your parents fault if you do. Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions. draw up a monthly budget if you want to avoid debt. .

I've already explained my thinking on the matter, what you take away from it, however strange, is up to you.
I think that maybe this hit a little too close to home in terms of parental critique, but not every parent is a good one, not every parent handles these situations well, and given their history of placating individuals who take advantage of other family members, it does end up negatively impacting others. You also seem to ignore much of what I've written, so I think you need to take a step back and take a deep breath.

freshpopcorn

OP what exactly do you want your parents to do?

Big Bag of Chips

So what's your solution, OP? You came asking advice but have argued almost all points made to you. (Or did you just want a rant?) What would you like to happen? And realistically what do you think will happen? And leading on from that, what do you think you, as an adult, need to do to make your situation better for you?

Realistically? You can only control yourself. Wishful thinking isn't going to change your home situation. So, what, practical steps can you take to change your current situation?

LegacyUser

I know your in a bad place at the moment. Your living with your parents and a older brother who is very aggressive. You said this got worse when he joined a gym. Is he in to weight lifting as I as I know some men take storids to bulk up. One of the side effects are being aggressive.

I don't see why your parents have let him away with not doing anything with his life. Why have they not made him get a job or help out. My feeling is that he may always have had problems or been undignoised with some problem as a child.

I have seen parents ignore what people or teachers have told them about a child thinking their is nothing wrong with Mary/John. They don't want people to know their child needs help and they hope a child will grow out of what is wrong. Meanwhile life just gets harder for Mary/John and long term the parents can end up dealing with an adult with problems.

At this stage I would look at your income and outgoings. You need to save money and keep looking for work. See if you can get some volentry work. If your parents ask you for money I would just say you can't afford it or say I will give you money when your bother pays the same.

In a nice way they need to see that you not going to hang around helping out at home and paying towards the bills when your bother is acting like a bold, spoilt child. I would not cut them out of your life when you leave home but I think putting some distance between you all is the best thing you can do.

The reality is that your parents are not willing to listen to you, your bother is not going to change and life is not suddenly going to improve at home.

You need to make plans, save money and move on with your own life.

gline

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

There's a danger that they'll simply guilt me into 'helping', which cripples me moving forward.

Dont let them guilt you into anything. You need to start becoming independant now as you are an adult. If they want to ruin themselves for your brother, let them, once you move out it wont be your problem anymore. Priority no.1 is removing yourself from the situation because you cant and wont change it.

Big Bag of Chips

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

Unfortunately the amount I'm making at the moment gives me little to no options, and while some friends are contemplating moving to an apartment, they've already been bouncing around from apartments to home, and house-shares seem increasingly rare and/or a massive risk, so options are incredibly limited.

What are the massive risks? Obviously there are some risks involved in all aspects of life, but moving into a house share shouldn't be seen as a massive risk. Some will work great, others mightn't but if it doesn't, you'll have the option of moving on. You shouldn't talk yourself out of something that has the potential to greatly improve your quality of life. You won't know, until you try. Your friends obviously have the luxury of being able to come and go from home. Your home situation is different to theirs. You can make it work. If you need to make it work, then you can. Depending on your income you might not be able to live in a fancy, city centre apartment. But you will find something. If your job isn't great, and you don't have much hope of getting another one in your area, why not move away? I'm not sure where you are, but some of the regional towns around the country would have cheaper rents. It could be the making of you to branch out and become independent of your family

There are always options. It's just a case of looking for them and maybe thinking a little outside the box.

DukeOfTheSharp

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

he's becoming more and more aggressive as the months have gone on, which seem to correlate to his joining a gym

Sounds like he might be taking steroids.

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

the last time it put my sister 10k in debt. That's the feeling I get when it comes to this situation; eventually I'll be the fool with the (very minor) cash reserve they guilt into bankrolling some ridiculous endeavor and I'll get it in the neck later when it goes wrong.

Ironically, you and your sister are enabling your parents.

Your best bet is to extricate yourself from this situation and leave them to their own devices, the only winners here are the ones who don't participate.

freshpopcorn

To me you sound like a man/woman with a partner in a terrible relationship.
You come on here and you told basically to leave the relationship but it's like you want to fix the other person or something and you won't remove yourself from the situations.

Big Bag of Chips

abc 2020 wrote: »

If your parents ask you for money I would just say you can't afford it or say I will give you money when your bother pays the same.

In a nice way they need to see that you not going to hang around helping out at home and paying towards the bills when your bother is acting like a bold, spoilt child.

I agree with most of your post, except this bit!

Do you not see that by OP refusing to pay their way, when it is generally accepted and acknowledged that adults in the house should be contributing to the house they live in, that the OP is also behaving like a bold, spoilt child, like their brother? 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Just because one person in a house is behaving badly, doesn't mean others should take advantage and behave badly too!! That then just makes them part of the problem. If the OP thinks that as an adult, living in a house, you should contribute to the costs of the house then that is how they should live their life, regardless of what others do. If the OP is adamant that they won't help out at home, then they should move to their own place. Or at least stop giving out that their brother isn't contributing either! They're both causing the same problem!!

Honestly, the parents in this situation are in an awful position. Maybe they have asked the brother for a contribution and he's dragging his heels? But having 2 grown adults living at home acting like children wouldn't be my idea of a happy house after my child rearing days are behind me. And I'd hate to be one of the grown adults deliberately and consciously putting my parents under that stress.

LegacyUser

he biggest issue is how unwilling my parents are to deal with his way of living: he's in his 30s, never had a job longer than a few months, doesn't pay his way, has done three courses, only finished one and has given up on two others, and never bothered to continue the career that completed course was in.

What's so different about you?

How long was your longest job?
Do you realistically pay your way, or just what you feel you can afford?
How's you career in your completed course going?


You need to focus on your own life instead of making big drama about your siblings "minor medical issues"

Your parents relationship with your brother is none of your business.

From your parents point of view, 2 of their adult children are still living at home, umemloyed, need lifts everywhere (do you not drive?) and sibling rivalry is rife.

Focus on your own life. Stop the drama, because from your OP it seems you like to create some yourself.

Emme

OP it is not always easy to see how bad a situation is when you are in the middle of it. Living under the shadow of an unstable family member can be crippling - I have personal experience. I would advise you to get out of the family home as soon as you can. Once you find your feet your confidence will probably come on in leaps and bounds. It is up to you whether you want to keep in touch with your family but keep contact limited and make your own life your priority. You need to put your energy into helping yourself and not people who aren't willing to help themselves.

DukeOfTheSharp

Sorry I was away for so long, been working on finding some form of work or other, and while there have been leads, nothing solid is emerging as of yet.

Reading some of these posts has been...weird. Like out of context weird, but some of the last posts have clicked with me.

I'm aware that this is extremely similar to an abusive relationship (been there, done that, it's also one of the reasons I ended up in that situation to begin with) - and despite moving past that, I was once made aware that home life was a key component in how I ended up in such a state. Obviously I backslid somewhat, it's pretty goddamn clear now, but getting myself out of this is the goal, despite the mountain of work that needs doing. I've begun to price apartments (studio apartments are out of my price range, even with a job) but that's not gone well, so my only real option is the get a job abroad - perhaps China - to teach English, as the pay is immensely good and some bills are taken care of thanks to the contracts. It's a pretty big decision, not one I make lightly, but at the moment it's my only real option of escaping the cycle I'm in. Making life better for myself needs to be the main goal. So thanks for the advice, I've some major preparations to get to.