Is my training way off?

2 plans this year, lower times in IMRA runs and run a sub 40 10k.

At the moment running pretty hard, approx 4 times a week incl 1 hard night of hill repeats, 1 fast sub 45 10k and 1 lsr trail run...which usually turns out to be not that slow at all, like today when we did a 3 hr 20 min 30k over 1000m of mountain.

Main aim is to get into top 10 on IMRA national championship runs and finally get below 40 for a 10km. Have run a sub 19 5km so pretty sure if I get fit enough will get the sub 40, but wondering if the idea of changing run type regularly is good or bad, or should I focus on, say regular hilly 10kms.

Djoucer

I might change the fast sub 45 10km for mile intervals. Found those and hill repeats really beneficial for IMRA races. The intervals help during second half of IMRA races. To be able to run hard on tired legs and have a quick leg turnover for the downhill. Makes a big difference.

Marathon plans help. The midweek 10 miles at hm pace are great. Again, you're running hard on tired legs and builds up endurance. My 2 cents.

Micilin Muc

How steep are your hill repeats? Are they IMRA-standard, or road runner standard, if you know what I mean? Steep repeats are great for your IMRA goal, but probably not as beneficial for your 10k goal. Maybe a less steep hill repeat would be better for that?

ClashCityRocker

Djoucer wrote: »

I might change the fast sub 45 10km for mile intervals. Found those and hill repeats really beneficial for IMRA races. The intervals help during second half of IMRA races. To be able to run hard on tired legs and have a quick leg turnover for the downhill. Makes a big difference.

Marathon plans help. The midweek 10 miles at hm pace are great. Again, you're running hard on tired legs and builds up endurance. My 2 cents.

Seems like a hell of a session to run weekly?

Djoucer

ClashCityRocker wrote: »

Seems like a hell of a session to run weekly?

Should've said first half at mp, second at hm.

Micilin Muc

Micilin Muc wrote: »

How steep are your hill repeats? Are they IMRA-standard, or road runner standard, if you know what I mean? Steep repeats are great for your IMRA goal, but probably not as beneficial for your 10k goal.

Hill repeats would be 500m on a trail up the side of a mountain with about 50/60m ascent in that.

I think I might just be doing the wrong thing, maybe not training enough and going too hard when I do train. Thurs was a fast 10km, Fri hill repeats for 90 mins, Sat a Parkrun and Sun the lsr on mountains. Legs feeling a bit trashed today. On the other hand part of me thinks do the hard work now, the classic old "hard yards in Jan and Feb" thinking.

ger664

3-4 sessions like that week is tough going but on the bounce is only going to land you on the I am injured wagon

Djoucer

Everyone is different but four sessions isn't that heavy a workload. Timing might be your issue.

There's very little recovery in your plan.

A lot of clubs would do sessions on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturday and then a LSR.

Ceepo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hill repeats would be 500m on a trail up the side of a mountain with about 50/60m ascent in that.

I think I might just be doing the wrong thing, maybe not training enough and going too hard when I do train. Thurs was a fast 10km, Fri hill repeats for 90 mins, Sat a Parkrun and Sun the lsr on mountains. Legs feeling a bit trashed today. On the other hand part of me thinks do the hard work now, the classic old "hard yards in Jan and Feb" thinking.

Of course this is just my opinion.

But you are training going way to hard.
The key is to be consistent in training, they way you are training at the moment is not sustainable. You will end up fatigued or injured.
Adaptation comes from recovery and or rest and you are not giving yourself a chance to adapt to the sessions you are doing.
Where are your easy recovery runs .?
30k over trails is not a recovery running, and why do you been to do a 30k trail run anyway. Surly your race distance are only 10/12k max.
Slow some of your runs down a bit.

Ceepo

Ceepo wrote: »

Where are your easy recovery runs .?
30k over trails is not a recovery running, and why do you been to do a 30k trail run anyway. Surly your race distance are only 10/12k max.
Slow some of your runs down a bit.

Have been told I run too hard in training, maybe I should up the mileage but decrease the pace. Don't really have recovery runs, though that may come this week as a couple of friends starting off and want to go jogging/short slow runs.

The longer trail and mountain runs are for events like the Mournes Skyline, the Mournes 7 7s, maybe the Wicklow Way Ultra, Galty Crossing, South Leinster Challenge etc. Plan on going to the Stuc a Chroin 5000 in Scotland in May which is 20 something km. Plus I really like them, it's the one I don't really regard as training, more of a meet up with others, chance to take in the great scenery here in the SW etc.

pconn062

Deleted User wrote: »

Have been told I run too hard in training, maybe I should up the mileage but decrease the pace. Don't really have recovery runs, though that may come this week as a couple of friends starting off and want to go jogging/short slow runs.

The longer trail and mountain runs are for events like the Mournes Skyline, the Mournes 7 7s, maybe the Wicklow Way Ultra, Galty Crossing, South Leinster Challenge etc. Plan on going to the Stuc a Chroin 5000 in Scotland in May which is 20 something km. Plus I really like them, it's the one I don't really regard as training, more of a meet up with others, chance to take in the great scenery here in the SW etc.

Very hard to mix training to long mountain races/ultras and a sub 40 10k at the same time. Specific events require specific training. If the ultras are the priority then train specifically for them and then maybe race a 10k and see if you can sneak it. If not then once they are out of the way you can do a 10k specific block and aim for the sub 40, 8 weeks of specific training should be enough.

Your training in general looks pretty bad, too much quality and not enough easy runs to build the foundation. If you enjoy it and are happy tipping along then that's great but if you are serious about your training then you need structure and a plan going forward. I would try and build up to 5-6 days a week of mostly easy running. When you're there I would keep the hill reps, shorten the "fast" 10k to a more specific tempo session and scrap the parkrun (apart from running one every few weeks if you want to get a gauge on fitness, but better still, run a real race). Also, keep the long hilly runs but run them at a slow conversational pace.

I see a lot of guys who flog themselves every week training "hard" and getting absolutely nowhere, running the same race times year on year. There are of course times for hard training but the priority should be to train smart, not hard.

And, join a club if possible and get proper advice from a coach who knows what they are doing.