What are we going to do to the HSE?

One More Toy

In my very recent experience, its a shambles.

Poor nurses worked off their feet, especially student ones. do away with td expenses and add a few more beds

Its a f**** disgrace, if the 1916 leaders could see what happened to our health service today they would have sat their holes in a pub for easter.

Disgrace.

judeboy101

Get rid of nursing degree, bring back the religious and matrons to run the hospitals. Have no more than 2layers of management between the man who empties the bins and the minister of health.

judeboy101 wrote: »

Get rid of nursing degree, bring back the religious and matrons to run the hospitals. Have no more than 2layers of management between the man who empties the bins and the minister of health.

Cause nothing bad ever happened when the church was in charge of health care

judeboy101

Lylah Purple Shampoo wrote: »

Cause nothing bad ever happened when the church was in charge of health care

Never said the church,I said the religious. Big difference.

5uspect

It seems to be the endless layers of bureaucracy and unnecessary managers that eat up significant amounts of budget and space.

Go into Temple St or Holles St and your are send around to the side door and into cramped and decaying facilities and over-worked staff. On your way you'll pass loads of empty offices all located out the front for **** know what purpose.

I've recently heard one of these office dwelling so called health care professionals refer to new doctors as 'pups' that needed to be kicked into line and laugh about abusing waiting lists for fun. Lovely person.

It seems painfully obvious that much of this bureaucracy could be replaced by simple automation and electronic storage using off the shelf affordable IT systems. There should be no need for these parasites to further infect our health care system.

Victor

judeboy101 wrote: »

Get rid of nursing degree, bring back the religious and matrons to run the hospitals. Have no more than 2layers of management between the man who empties the bins and the minister of health.

That would be:

1 Minister
46 Senior managers
2,155 Junior managers
100,000 Workers

Do you know anywhere where there is only one manager for 46 staff? Can you imagine one manager running 8 Spar shops, by themselves?


This is what you get when religion runs care institutions: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/special-investigation-bessborough-mother-and-baby-home-its-time-these-womens-voices-are-finally-heard-334069.html

Just last year, this newspaper uncovered that an official investigation carried out by the Cork County medical officer, on foot of inquiries from an inspector with the Department of Local Government, confirmed an infant mortality rate of 68% at Bessborough in 1943. The government briefly stopped sending women there as a result.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0825/639320-commission-of-investigation/

The call comes following the revelation that mortality rates in one mother-and-baby home was as high as 68% in 1943.

Files at Cork City Archives show the infant mortality rate at Bessborough mother-and-baby home was as high as 47% in 1939.

According to the Irish Examiner this figure rose to 61% in 1943 and rose again to 68% in a subsequent report.

slavetothegrind

It is a civil service management structure issue.
Until that is sorted the HSE is never going to improve.
We need it to be more of a meritocracy than a "time served i deserve" driven system.
I know changes are in progress but the pace is glacial.

One More Toy wrote: »

In my very recent experience, its a shambles.

Poor nurses worked off their feet, especially student ones. do away with td expenses and add a few more beds

Its a f**** disgrace, if the 1916 leaders could see what happened to our health service today they would have sat their holes in a pub for easter.

Disgrace.

To believe the entire Easter rising could have been thwarted by such knowledge is quite naive to think. I don't think Éamonn Ceannt, and fellows, would have decided any differently.

judeboy101 wrote: »

Get rid of nursing degree, bring back the religious and matrons to run the hospitals. Have no more than 2layers of management between the man who empties the bins and the minister of health.

How exactly do you expect that to work out? Have you detailed plans or are you just talking rubbish?

judeboy101 wrote: »

Never said the church,I said the religious. Big difference.

The last place religion should have a place is health care.

Lemming

slavetothegrind wrote: »

It is a civil service management structure issue.

This ^^.

From my professional experience dealing with the HSE* - or to be specific - the section involved regards pharmacies claiming re-embursement for medical card subsidies per month, the stucture was management heavy and absolutely nobody wanted to make a decision, nor was there urgency in making decisions, even when it was the HSE that was pushing to change their processes to save them a sizeable chunk of money every month. They wanted us to change stuff to suit them yet trying to get answers out of them was excruciating and akin to pulling teeth. Such that even after I left the company I was with, a year later, they [the company] were still trying to get answers out of the HSE.

Too many chiefs, not enough indians.


*Note, when I refer to the 'HSE' I am referring to the precusor of the HSE and what was quite simply a rebranding exercise

ednwireland

add another layer of management probably

noodler

About 1500 extra nurses hired in the last three years.

Seems like a lot.

On the other hand, a small proportion of the overall additional numbers hired in recent years in the health sector.

Consonata

Sometimes I think the institution just needs to be dissolved in favor of a smaller, more streamlined, cost effective system.


But the thought of the pensions to be paid out for people who manage the people who manage the plumbing, makes me feel ill.
Probably something like a 6 figure pension to them all that would need to be paid out due to contracts.

L1011

One More Toy wrote: »

Its a f**** disgrace, if the 1916 leaders could see what happened to our health service today they would have sat their holes in a pub for easter.

You do realise that prior to the 1960s, effectively all healthcare in Ireland was either paid for (handsomely) or reliant on charity, right? Even the minimal amount provided for the extremely poor was granted in a humiliating manner - having to get a ticket off the council and going to the back door of the GPs house, for one.

The system we have would utterly astound the 1916 leaders in what it manages to provide (by 1916 - or even 1966 - standards).

judeboy101 wrote: »

Never said the church,I said the religious. Big difference.

There are virtually no nuns or other religious sisters anymore.

The idea that things were better when religious orders were incharge is insanity particularly when you remember that for much of Dublin *they still are*

Mater is a Catholic order. Vincents is a Catholic order. Temple Street and Crumlin are Catholic Church run. Tallaght is an assortment of Protestant orders. Beaumont and Blanchardstown are the only properly state run of the lot.

The idea that things were run better back in the old days comes from - less people being able to get in (the paying bit), perceptions of cleanliness from impractical clothes like starched uniforms (starched in the Magdelene or Bethany home associated with the order...) and smellier disinfectants, the fact that people who may now be in hospital immunocomprimised by chemotherapy etc just died instead, and antibiotic resistant bacteria which were not resistant at the time. Nothing "the religious" did, bar the laundry.

Fr Tod Umptious

I've an idea.

Why don't we make the guy who setup the whole thing the next Taoiseach.

red ears

More doctors and consultant for a start and money following the patient. The more patients they see the more money the hospital gets. Not the current way where a block of money is given to the hospital and they try to live within that budget.

Brian?

The HSE was only ever a new layer of management on top of the old health board system. I'm not sure it can be saved.

The health service itself needs investment and modernisation. But I wouldn't trust the current HSE to spend the money wisely.

In other words, I don't know. It's a mess.

If only there was a fully functioning, publicly owned health service we could copy. One on a national scale......

judeboy101

Victor wrote: »

That would be:

1 Minister
46 Senior managers
2,155 Junior managers
100,000 Workers

Do you know anywhere where there is only one manager for 46 staff? Can you imagine one manager running 8 Spar shops, by themselves?


This is what you get when religion runs care institutions: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/special-investigation-bessborough-mother-and-baby-home-its-time-these-womens-voices-are-finally-heard-334069.html


https://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0825/639320-commission-of-investigation/

Didn't know that was a hospital with nurses doctors and consultants. Oh wait, it wasn't!!