Using Electric immersion element with oil central heating?

Andy From Sligo

Oil central heating.

secondary heating coil inside Immersion tank taken off radiator circuit.

Dual (sink/bath) Electric Immersion element in immersion tank. - Single Dual bath sink element in top of tank.

Want to try and save oil/kerosene - If I turned on Electric immersion in morning and turned it off at night would this help me save any oil? if so would it be substantial savings or tiny? - presently heating up domestic hot water by oil only.

- and if i were to put on Immersion along with oil CH would I select bath or sink (as if i selected sink the immersion turns off when top half of immersion tank is hot, so it wouldnt come on at all if oil CH is heating up immersion tank will it?

I know in turn that could make the electricity bill dear because I will be using the electric immersion heater as well as oil CH to heat up DHW but is it likely to save on oil because the oil boiler will only have to concentrate on heating the rads in the house rather than heating up the water in the immersion tank as well as heating the radiators

I am also thinking with a combination of using oil/kerosene CH boiler and Electric immersion it will heat up that Immersion cylinder quicker than just heating it up by oil central heating alone? yes?

Sleeper12

Andy From Sligo wrote:

Want to try and save oil/kerosene - If I turned on Electric immersion in morning and turned it off at night would this help me save any oil? if so would it be substantial savings or tiny? - presently heating up domestic hot water by oil only.

You should use less oil but it will cost more in the long run as it will cost more money to heat up the hot water cylinder. Electricity is more expensive than oil

Andy From Sligo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You should use less oil but it will cost more in the long run as it will cost more money to heat up the hot water cylinder. Electricity is more expensive than oil

wouldnt the combinations of heating up the water with Electric and oil boiler at the same time heat up the water in faster time meaning that boiler and electric immersion stat, cut out quicker therefore saving economy?

Sleeper12

Andy From Sligo wrote:

wouldnt the combinations of heating up the water with Electric and oil boiler at the same time heat up the water in faster time meaning that boiler and electric immersion stat, cut out quicker therefore saving economy?

The electricity used is still more expensive than the oil. It's cheaper to just use oil even if it takes longer.
I have gas but use mostly electric to heat up the water because I can do this with the timer and without having the heating on so I'm not against using the element but electric is the most expensive way to heat up water.

K.Flyer

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

wouldnt the combinations of heating up the water with Electric and oil boiler at the same time heat up the water in faster time meaning that boiler and electric immersion stat, cut out quicker therefore saving economy?

Yes, the cylinder will heat quicker, but unless you have a zone valve / cylinder thermostat set up on your cylinder, then that may be the only benefit.

Andy From Sligo

K.Flyer wrote: »

Yes, the cylinder will heat quicker, but unless you have a zone valve / cylinder thermostat set up on your cylinder, then that may be the only benefit.

Thanks.

If the water in the cylinder was cold, and hot water from the boiler passed through the coil would the cold water of the cylinder drop the degrees of the water in the coil and make it cooler to pass onto the radiator? - if the immersion cylinder was kept at constant temperature of 60c-65c then the water in the coil should theoretically pass through at 60-65c then (or whatever the boiler stat is set to) wouldnt that be right? - so the correct temp of water should go to rads?

No, the coil hasn't got a zone valve or cylinder stat.

Tom44

Andy,
I'm surprised you haven't tried nuclear yet.

Sleeper12

Tom44 wrote: »

Andy,
I'm surprised you haven't tried nuclear yet.

Steady on!!!
He can try rubbing 2 sticks together first. Not straight into nuclear. :):)

Andy From Sligo

Tom44 wrote: »

Andy,
I'm surprised you haven't tried nuclear yet.

cor - dont tempt me .. how do you do that then?

Currently using 40eur of oil in this weather and that could last 5-7 days only. Condenser outside boiler , rads have TRV's - room stat set between 18/19c and heating on from 10.30am to 11pm - does 40eur for 5-7day sound right? , sounds a bit excessive to me.

K.Flyer

Its probably about right if the house does not have much in the way of good insulation given current outside temperatures.
You also have additional heat loss given the outside boiler.
The cost of keeping your cylinder at a constant 65' will greatly depend on how well your cylinder is insulated.
Do you really need to have a full tank of hot water all day?
If not, its a huge waste of energy.

Sleeper12

Andy From Sligo wrote:

Currently using 40eur of oil in this weather and that could last 5-7 days only. Condenser outside boiler , rads have TRV's - room stat set between 18/19c and heating on from 10.30am to 11pm - does 40eur for 5-7day sound right? , sounds a bit excessive to me.

11 and a half hour per day? I'm not doubting you. My wife stays at home so our heat is on most of the day. I don't use oil so don't know the price but you have to expect high bills for 11 and half hours a day.
Days are getting longer. Won't be long before the heat is off all day. I hope.

Andy From Sligo

K.Flyer wrote: »

Its probably about right if the house does not have much in the way of good insulation given current outside temperatures.
You also have additional heat loss given the outside boiler.
The cost of keeping your cylinder at a constant 65' will greatly depend on how well your cylinder is insulated.
Do you really need to have a full tank of hot water all day?
If not, its a huge waste of energy.

the house has excellent insulation, couldn't ask for more really, even has cavity wall insulation pumped into it , and one of those immersion cylinders with green foam around it

K.Flyer

When was the boiler last serviced?

Andy From Sligo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

11 and a half hour per day? I'm not doubting you. My wife stays at home so our heat is on most of the day. I don't use oil so don't know the price but you have to expect high bills for 11 and half hours a day.
Days are getting longer. Won't be long before the heat is off all day. I hope.

Yes 11.5 hours a day is a long time to have on isn't it.

Andy From Sligo

K.Flyer wrote: »

When was the boiler last serviced?

Brand new boiler , only put into service December last. It does smell a bit 'fumey'/ kerosene smell sometimes out if the flue as if its running too rich or not burning the fuel totally, am waiting for a engineer to come out and look at it. Maybe that's why its costing us a lot, but I would have thought it would have been all tuned up properly when it was commissioned, and also if it was running too rich it wouldn't start up

jca

How do you know you're using €40 a week? Are you buying oil in drums? That's a very expensive way to be buying oil.

Tom44

Andy,
You already know boiler is not running at it's full efficiency due to smell, we have covered that topic.
Bit like a car out of tune, it will still start & go, but you won't get the full MPG

As for running it all day, that's madness unless your rich.
Try staggering the times, on for 1.5 hours to get the heat up, then off for half an hour, then on for half an hour and so on for the rest of the day. That's a 5 hour saving.
You have a reasonably new modern house.
Lots of argument's for and against this theory, but I have seen it make a big difference for some people. Trial and error will tell.
You don't need the house roasting during the day as were more active then. Nice to have it warmer at night through.

Bulk buying of kero is a lot cheaper than buying it by the jerry can, if that's what you've doing?


After year's of research the EU Energy council have discovered that the most efficient setting on a heating boiler is OFF.

Buy a jumper.

Sleeper12

Tom44 wrote:

After year's of research the EU Energy council have discovered that the most efficient setting on a heating boiler is OFF.

Brilliant.

The high horse brigade

Get a smart thermostat like a Netatmo installed controlling your boiler then set your desired temps day, evening and night. It's much more efficient to control your heating by temperature rather than time schedules. This is what I have done and after a few weeks of the thermostat learning I'm now saving a few hours heating a day keeping the house at 19 during the day (weekends, nobody home day during week), 19.5 in the evening and 18 during the night. The heating cuts in and out for 5-10 mins every hour keeping the house at the desired temp.

Fyi, I'm married to the coldest woman in the world and this completely passes the missus test. When I started the smart thermostat was hitting 21-22 degrees in the evening, I've now found a happy balance without any complaints.



Netatmo Thermostat for Smartphone https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00GWKW8SY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_1SdOybHW2XBMJ

Andy From Sligo

Tom44 wrote: »

Andy,

.....Bit like a car out of tune, it will still start & go, but you won't get the full MPG

thanks, I just thought you know how the RDB2 has a Burner photocell that if it was running rich the boiler would keep cutting out and you would have to press that reset button with the red light on it, or some other sensor in the burner would detect its running too rich (or not burning kerosene fully) and cut out - but does it not work like that then?

Andy From Sligo

jca wrote: »

How do you know you're using €40 a week? Are you buying oil in drums? That's a very expensive way to be buying oil.

70c per litre barrel wise - , am doing it this way at moment until i know for certain how we are doing. - wouldnt fill up a whole tank anyway even if could afford it

Andy From Sligo

Tom44 wrote: »

Buy a jumper.

I have a jumper and a bodywarmer on in the house and still bleeding cold - mind you I was diagnosed by the docs a couple of years back as having Raynauds so that dont help ... and now I am blood pressure tablets and someone told me they can make you feel colder as well. - I need to move to warmer climate

Mind you we get our Irish Summer in March/April ... so not long now to wait - then the feckin heating is going off altogether!

jca

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

70c per litre barrel wise - , am doing it this way at moment until i know for certain how we are doing. - wouldnt fill up a whole tank anyway even if could afford it

You don't need to fill the tank but you can get better deals on 500 litres etc. The last deal I got was 660 litres for €400 60c per litre, those 10c's add up over the year. How do people get the kero into the tank using these drums? Stinking horrible stuff I hate being near it.

K.Flyer

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks, I just thought you know how the RDB2 has a Burner photocell that if it was running rich the boiler would keep cutting out and you would have to press that reset button with the red light on it, or some other sensor in the burner would detect its running too rich (or not burning kerosene fully) and cut out - but does it not work like that then?

Nope, if a new condensing boiler gets to the stage where its cutting out due to a dirty photocell, it means it has not been set up correctly and you have lost a lot of effeciency due to it being sooted up. Which in the long run is costing you more money on fuel.
Get someone in and have it checked out properly, using a smoke pump and a gas analyser, before it ends up costing a lot more money to have it cleaned and rectified.

Andy From Sligo

I was just looking at a local boiler repair man who has fixed rate boiler servicing at 70eur for a regular boiler and 90eur for a condensing boiler , why the extra for condenser boiler? is there more work involved apart from checking cleaning the condenser trap

K.Flyer

Yes, its more time consuming as all the turbulators need to be removed to be checked, cleaned if required, tubes brushed, and everything reassembled.
You don't have this on a standard efficiency domestic oil boiler.

Andy From Sligo

K.Flyer wrote: »

Yes, its more time consuming as all the turbulators need to be removed to be checked, cleaned if required, tubes brushed, and everything reassembled.
You don't have this on a standard efficiency domestic oil boiler.

Oh right - thank you , didnt realise