50 Sq metre concrete floor

dar_cool

Hi All,

Have an old shed I need a concrete floor put down, want 150mm down as im putting a 2 post lift in. Small bit of prep work needed including a new layer of hardcore. Quotes I have been getting have shocked me, Concrete cost on its own is around 550/600 euro. Anyone have a rough estimate on how much this should cost?

Thanks

Gumbo

dar_cool wrote: »

Hi All,

Have an old shed I need a concrete floor put down, want 150mm down as im putting a 2 post lift in. Small bit of prep work needed including a new layer of hardcore. Quotes I have been getting have shocked me, Concrete cost on its own is around 550/600 euro. Anyone have a rough estimate on how much this should cost?

Thanks

The car lift adds 2 very distinct point loads onto the slab. Have you thought about it's thickness in this location and reinforcement?

Sam Kade

dar_cool wrote: »

Hi All,

Have an old shed I need a concrete floor put down, want 150mm down as im putting a 2 post lift in. Small bit of prep work needed including a new layer of hardcore. Quotes I have been getting have shocked me, Concrete cost on its own is around 550/600 euro. Anyone have a rough estimate on how much this should cost?

Thanks

How do you mean a new layer of hardcore? If there is hardcore there already why not pour the concrete on that if not you'd probably want 10-15 tonne of hardcore costing roughly 2-300. Are you putting down the floor yourself?

dar_cool

Thanks for the replies guys,
Specs from the manufacturer of the lift just specifies a minimum of 4" of concrete for the posts to be anchor bolted into place.
i wont be doing this myself, I wouldnt even know where to start to be honest. There was never a full concrete floor in place, small bit at the entrance that will need to be broken up and removed.

Idbatterim

I did this with the bro a few months back, in fairness, I dont know what kind of quotes you are getting, but I would have yourself and one other person (maybe someone who has done it before) can no doubt find them on donedeal or gumtree. Maybe put down re-bar where the pressure points will be...

Do you mind me asking what kind of quotes you are getting on labour?

How big is the area? Id be doing all the prep work myself at the very least!

how do you mean a new layer of hardcore?

in the area where the pressure points will be, simply dig a slightly deeper hole, also re-bar might be a good idea...

dar_cool

Area is 9metres long by 5.4 metres width so big enough,

Ive got 2 quotes 1 was for 2700 and the other was 2400.

Idbatterim

op, see pm...

Sam Kade

dar_cool wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys,
Specs from the manufacturer of the lift just specifies a minimum of 4" of concrete for the posts to be anchor bolted into place.
i wont be doing this myself, I wouldnt even know where to start to be honest. There was never a full concrete floor in place, small bit at the entrance that will need to be broken up and removed.

Not impossible but that's easy for me to say as I've experience building, it's tough work, you'd want as least 2 good men that aren't afraid of hard work.

jiminho

I'd try and tackle that myself with one or two friends tbh. 50m2 at 100mm (4" is plenty unless you'll be lifting a van with a bunch of stuff in it) is half a truck load so not that much. One days work prepping, just make sure that hardcore is compacted well and one days work for two, preferably three of you to work the concrete. Have any trade friends?

macadam

I doubt 100mm of RMC is enough of depth. If it was my shed and I was putting in a post lift I would definitely strengthen the post areas with extra concrete and a rsj insitu. I would also put steel mesh and use 35 neuton RMC with ex ex sand in the floor. €2700 should cover all this..

jiminho

macadam wrote: »

I doubt 100mm of RMC is enough of depth. If it was my shed and I was putting in a post lift I would definitely strengthen the post areas with extra concrete and a rsj insitu. I would also put steel mesh and use 35 neuton RMC with ex ex sand in the floor. €2700 should cover all this..

That's overkill. Call the manufacturer of the lift and they will tell you what's required, simple. 4" slab, 30N w/o reinforcement, provided hardcore is compacted well and there is proper drainage beneath slab. If you want reinforcement for peace of mind, then go with fibre mesh.

Now if you're lifting a tank, that's different.

Boaty

jiminho wrote: »

That's overkill. Call the manufacturer of the lift and they will tell you what's required, simple. 4" slab, 30N w/o reinforcement, provided hardcore is compacted well and there is proper drainage beneath slab. If you want reinforcement for peace of mind, then go with fibre mesh.

Now if you're lifting a tank, that's different.

The lift is most likely a cheap Chinese brand, do you really think that they have extensively tested the ability of the lift to stay upright in 4 inch's of concrete.

Better to have overkill on something that could kill you.

macadam

jiminho wrote: »

That's overkill. Call the manufacturer of the lift and they will tell you what's required, simple. 4" slab, 30N w/o reinforcement, provided hardcore is compacted well and there is proper drainage beneath slab. If you want reinforcement for peace of mind, then go with fibre mesh.

Now if you're lifting a tank, that's different.

Ive seen so many 100mm footpaths cracked on corners with just a few small family cars crossing them. 100mm slab is the minimum depth for a floor slab in a house so what your saying is it should suffice to hold a car lift !!!
Drainage ?? This is a new one for me whats the drainage for? As for fiber mesh you will not get a decent smooth finish with fibermesh great stuff in foundations or pillars but on a finished floor !!!

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

That's overkill. Call the manufacturer of the lift and they will tell you what's required, simple. 4" slab, 30N w/o reinforcement, provided hardcore is compacted well and there is proper drainage beneath slab. If you want reinforcement for peace of mind, then go with fibre mesh.

Now if you're lifting a tank, that's different.

I think 100mm is too slim/slender for what's been done here.
The OP could have a punto on the lift today and a 2 ton Merc jeep tomorrow.

Would you be comfortable under them cars if it was erected using the minimum requirements?

At the very least here, thinking of the slab or some sort of reinforced pad with starter bars into the rest of the slab is required.

I also think 100mm of a slab in general is too thin for the proposed use the OP wants it for.

macadam

kceire wrote: »

I think 100mm is too slim/slender for what's been done here.

I also think 100mm of a slab in general is too thin for the proposed use the OP wants it for.

I totally agree 100mm is a minimum amount recommended for footpaths end off..

jiminho

macadam wrote: »

Ive seen so many 100mm footpaths cracked on corners with just a few small family cars crossing them. 100mm slab is the minimum depth for a floor slab in a house so what your saying is it should suffice to hold a car lift !!!
Drainage ?? This is a new one for me whats the drainage for? As for fiber mesh you will not get a decent smooth finish with fibermesh great stuff in foundations or pillars but on a finished floor !!!

Hi Macadam. The corner of a footpath is one of the weakest parts of the structure plus cars aren't just slowly rolling over it, they're hitting it at force and of all shapes and sizes not just fiat puntos.

I'm currently living in Canada where almost every single house built has a garage attached. They all have 4" slabs and a lot of the new ones don't even have reinforcement. I can tell you that the vehicles parking on those are substantially heavier than anything the OP will be putting on there.

Proper drainage underneath the slab mitigates pooling of water which could cause erosion of the slab itself, erosion of the hardcore, improper curing, frost heave could cause settlement cracks, and on and on.

I will admit a fibre mesh won't produce a beautiful work of art found on the floors of museums but this is a garage.....

jiminho

kceire wrote: »

I think 100mm is too slim/slender for what's been done here.
The OP could have a punto on the lift today and a 2 ton Merc jeep tomorrow.

Would you be comfortable under them cars if it was erected using the minimum requirements?

At the very least here, thinking of the slab or some sort of reinforced pad with starter bars into the rest of the slab is required.

I also think 100mm of a slab in general is too thin for the proposed use the OP wants it for.

I've provided my opinion and clearly opinions differ. As I recommend in one of my posts, he should contact the manufacturer and they should have the requirements for the attached slab.

OP, I wish you all the best.

Boaty

jiminho wrote: »

I'm currently living in Canada where almost every single house built has a garage attached. They all have 4" slabs and a lot of the new ones don't even have reinforcement. I can tell you that the vehicles parking on those are substantially heavier than anything the OP will be putting on there.

Concrete is perfect at compressive loads but a two post lift will be exerting other forces which would most likely rip the bolts out of 4 inch's of concrete.

macadam

jiminho wrote: »

Hi Macadam. The corner of a footpath is one of the weakest parts of the structure plus cars aren't just slowly rolling over it, they're hitting it at force and of all shapes and sizes not just fiat puntos.

I'm currently living in Canada where almost every single house built has a garage attached. They all have 4" slabs and a lot of the new ones don't even have reinforcement. I can tell you that the vehicles parking on those are substantially heavier than anything the OP will be putting on there.

Proper drainage underneath the slab mitigates pooling of water which could cause erosion of the slab itself, erosion of the hardcore, improper curing, frost heave could cause settlement cracks, and on and on.

I will admit a fibre mesh won't produce a beautiful work of art found on the floors of museums but this is a garage.....

Your kinda contradicting yourself there Re Force on the corner of a path!! The force on a 2 post lift would be greater than a a car just rolling or hitting a corner of path at force. Said corners should have steel mesh and extra depth also..

Even at 150mm if it was my floor I would still want a minimum A393 mesh with extra depth of concrete and steel on the landing pads..

150mm thick floor slab is "minimum thickness" in Building Regulations..

jiminho

macadam wrote: »

Your kinda contradicting yourself there Re Force on the corner of a path!! The force on a 2 post lift would be greater than a a car just rolling or hitting a corner of path at force. Said corners should have stell and extra depth also..

Even at 150mm if it was my floor I would still want a minimum A393 mesh with extra depth of concrete and steel on the landing pads..

No it wouldn't!! An average car's weight distributed over two points is far less than that same car hitting a kerb at speed at one point. I could spend the next 5 mins typing out the calculations on my mobile but I'm not going to bother.

macadam

jiminho wrote: »

No it wouldn't!! An average car's weight distributed over two points is far less than that same car hitting a kerb at speed at one point. I could spend the next 5 mins typing out the calculations on my mobile but I'm not going to bother.

WOW this is getting interesting, "A cars weight over two points is far less than the same car hitting a kerb(path) at speed on one point"!! What about the other 3 points or wheels???

I would not like you around my house if you were driving at speed around the footpaths (not Kerb).. You really need to take stock of what your saying here, as its not making sense.
A wheel of a car you reckon will have greater force on a slab of concrete than a two post car lift.!!!
I will let the other posters on here decide on this one.. Please provide your calculations as they should make interesting reading.

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

I've provided my opinion and clearly opinions differ. As I recommend in one of my posts, he should contact the manufacturer and they should have the requirements for the attached slab.

OP, I wish you all the best.

I know you are planning on coming back to Ireland soon, and I know you are looking for engineering jobs so to forewarn you, I have never seen a 100mm floor slab been constructed in Ireland, especially for vehicle lifting purposes (similar to a garage, mechanics workshop).

What is the minimum depth that the anchor bolts from the lift post have to penetrate?
Can they be added later or will they have to be embedded beforehand?
The direct vertical load from the post with the car is one thing, but what about the shear/rotation forces, will the bolts chemically anchored into a 100mm slab be enough?

madmac187

A mate of mine has decided to put a shop into his farm yard for spares and what not. He buys and sells machinery but anyway. The state of what he did was woeful, didn't ask for any direction or anything. He did his farm yard before, asked what I thought told him and he laughed. 12 months later it was cracked and a mess couldn't even be walked on. 100mm thick with tractors and harvesters going over it. He redid it again and still not right. I did laugh to myself about meanness TBH.

But this is exactly like it lol. If 100mm concrete even without mesh well then fire away, but when it does crack and levels shift you will realise it was foolish for the sake of a couple of hundred it could have been right,

jiminho

Hi folks. Well I wasn't expecting my opinion to blow up into a full blown discussion but all good. Farm yards where tractors and equipment would weigh multiples of the heaviest of cars plus the corners of footpaths where again lorrys and hell tractors could roll over it is not the same as garage for a car. A moving car produces a lot more force on the concrete than a non-moving car. When it's moving you take account for it's static force AND dynamic force but I'm losing the battle on this one so I'm not going to bother. But if you are interested, look up rigid pavement design and you'll see why they make those roads so heavy duty. Plus, if the workmanship was bad on your mates farms slab then it wouldn't matter what the thickness was, it'll still crack. 
kceire says that 150mm is what everyone in Ireland does for floor slab so I can't argue with that. I don't live in Ireland so I don't know. But i'll leave you with one last thing and I'll call it a day. See below for two 2 post lift brochures. I'm sure they've done their QA on this and they've recommended a pad thickness of 90-100mm. 
http://www.atlasautoequipment.ca/content/docs/9ohsc_manual.pdf PDF page 5
http://www.garageequipment.co.uk/Garage-Lifts/2-Post-Lifts/E4G-209-Peak-2-Post-Baseplate-Lift-%E2%80%93-4-Ton-1ph-3ph

macadam

Fair enough Jiminho, I would still require the floor was installed with the local building regs in mind rather than a guide from a manufacturer, also I would not like my children or my self to stand under the said lift at any stage when it is loaded, regardles of the concrete slab.https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiwrO6j3I3SAhXiLMAKHRizBBQQtwIIGzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXLUjq6ijvVc&usg=AFQjCNGefcG-31objQWtawLkI1YIBYIaoQ&sig2=MkhxRHzKFrSCoDGBWtX9Bw

dar_cool

Thought id throw a picture up of how it looks since the floor was done, painted, electrics and 2 post lift installed

[IMG][/img]

macadam

Go on tell us about the spec of the concrete? I still wouldnt like to be standing under a lift like that I believe something thats support more than its own weight should be encased in the concrete not bolted to the concrete. But thats only me.
Nice set up all the same.

dar_cool

Its 6" of reinforced concrete, the lift is secured down with M19 concrete anchor bolts torqued up to 100nm. Lift is rated at 4 ton, volvo is probably the heaviest that will be on it at approx 1.5 tonnes and its very secure as long as you have the arms in the correct position. I was a bit nervous going under the car the first few times but as long as its lowered on the mechanical locks I dont think it will go anywhere*touch wood*!!

macadam

Is it Hydraulic?

dar_cool

macadam wrote: »

Is it Hydraulic?

Yes 2 big rams, has balancing cables and physical locks that you drop the arms onto whilst working underneath. When you presscrhe down button these locks disengage and it lowers down

macadam

dar_cool wrote: »

Yes 2 big rams, has balancing cables and physical locks that you drop the arms onto whilst working underneath. When you presscrhe down button these locks disengage and it lowers down

Good stuff was going to recommend locks etc, good luck with the work.