Driving other cars - that don't belong to you?

unkel

So like many other people my fully comprehensive insurance covers me to drive other cars. That don't belong to me. It doesn't say that the other car has to be insured already

Now I'm interested in the "does not belong to him". What does that mean?

Does it cover me when I buy a car, just to drive it home and / or to drive it for a while until the car is officially in my name and I have the registration certificate? Or does it mean that as soon as I hand over the money, the car belongs to me and I can't drive it on the "drive other cars" extension? Not even to get it home?

Another thing - I thought it wouldn't cover me if the car is owned by my wife. But someone in the motors forum recently said they have it in writing from their insurer that he would be covered in that case

And to be 100% clear here. I know one needs to be of "utmost good faith" when dealing with insurance companies or their agents and I want to 100% comply with this at all times.

Thoie

unkel wrote: »

So like many other people my fully comprehensive insurance covers me to drive other cars. That don't belong to me. It doesn't say that the other car has to be insured already

Now I'm interested in the "does not belong to him". What does that mean?

Does it cover me when I buy a car, just to drive it home and / or to drive it for a while until the car is officially in my name and I have the registration certificate? Or does it mean that as soon as I hand over the money, the car belongs to me and I can't drive it on the "drive other cars" extension? Not even to get it home?

Another thing - I thought it wouldn't cover me if the car is owned by my wife. But someone in the motors forum recently said they have it in writing from their insurer that he would be covered in that case

And to be 100% clear here. I know one needs to be of "utmost good faith" when dealing with insurance companies or their agents and I want to 100% comply with this at all times.

I've always taken it to be "not my car", so when buying a new car, for example, I ring the insurance company from the garage and transfer the insurance to the new reg before I drive off. In one situation I was going to be picking it up outside normal office hours, so I rang them earlier and said to transfer the insurance from 9pm and that was fine. Sometimes there's an admin fee for that.

Usually the driving other cars is on a temporary basis, when the other car is insured separately. Yours obviously doesn't say that, but usually it would be to stop you putting a "weekend" car in your wife's name, not insuring it, and then driving it every weekend. For example, I have my own car that I normally drive, but if I'm visiting my parents I might take one of their cars. The caveats are really designed to stop you insuring a 1L Ford Fiesta, but daily driving a 4L Maserati. If there was a big discrepancy between my car and my spouse's, I'd probably get something in writing from the insurance company too, so they couldn't try wiggle out of things in case of an incident.

Something else to check is that "driving other cars" is often only 3rd party cover. So if I borrow your car for an hour tonight, and damage it, the cost of repairs wouldn't be covered by my comprehensive insurance.

Marcusm

unkel wrote: »

So like many other people my fully comprehensive insurance covers me to drive other cars. That don't belong to me. It doesn't say that the other car has to be insured already

Now I'm interested in the "does not belong to him". What does that mean?

Does it cover me when I buy a car, just to drive it home and / or to drive it for a while until the car is officially in my name and I have the registration certificate? Or does it mean that as soon as I hand over the money, the car belongs to me and I can't drive it on the "drive other cars" extension? Not even to get it home?

Another thing - I thought it wouldn't cover me if the car is owned by my wife. But someone in the motors forum recently said they have it in writing from their insurer that he would be covered in that case

And to be 100% clear here. I know one needs to be of "utmost good faith" when dealing with insurance companies or their agents and I want to 100% comply with this at all times.

"Belong" is often conjoined with not hired to or leased by. I believe it would be interpreted broadly and certainly not restricted to circumstances where the VLC has not yet been issued in your name. My cert also excludes cars which belong to my spouse/partner. CiniO presumably had a very which did not have this exclusion. I have needed to look closely at the Cerys as I have frequently had to drive cars belonging to other family members and vice Verda.

Liam McPoyle

unkel wrote: »

So like many other people my fully comprehensive insurance covers me to drive other cars. That don't belong to me. It doesn't say that the other car has to be insured already

Now I'm interested in the "does not belong to him". What does that mean?

Does it cover me when I buy a car, just to drive it home and / or to drive it for a while until the car is officially in my name and I have the registration certificate? Or does it mean that as soon as I hand over the money, the car belongs to me and I can't drive it on the "drive other cars" extension? Not even to get it home?

Another thing - I thought it wouldn't cover me if the car is owned by my wife. But someone in the motors forum recently said they have it in writing from their insurer that he would be covered in that case

And to be 100% clear here. I know one needs to be of "utmost good faith" when dealing with insurance companies or their agents and I want to 100% comply with this at all times.

To break it down by the letter of the insurance law, once you take ownership of something then it becomes your property, therefore you own it.

So you are correct in the scenario you have mentioned above, as soon as money changes hands then the vehicle would be excluded from the DoC extension.

In terms of the spouse / partner side of it, I'd be of the opinion that if your spouse or partner buys another car then your DoC would not cover you to drive it. Id use the example of an insurance policy itself, ie you can insure a car in your name even if your spouse / partner is the registered owner and vice versa as you would both have a financial interest.

Of course that would depend on the company as for things like that its down to discretion as opposed to there being a hard and fast rule.

Voodoomelon

Partners and spouses aside, whats the deal with siblings, brothers and sisters?

Say I buy a second car, put it on my brothers name. Can I drive that car under my main cars third party extension? (which does not require the car itself to be insured).

How could anyone prove you owned or didn't own the car, other than looking at the logbook?

Liam McPoyle

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Partners and spouses aside, whats the deal with siblings, brothers and sisters?

Say I buy a second car, put it on my brothers name. Can I drive that car under my main cars third party extension? (which does not require the car itself to be insured).

How could anyone prove you owned or didn't own the car, other than looking at the logbook?

You could technically do it alright but you would most likely be covered for third party only and in the event of a claim then I'd expect some difficult questions. There is also the chance that if you were pulled once driving a car that isn't insured that the guards would take a keen interest in your driving habits. They in turn would likely report it to you own insurer or at a minimum check with them about your own insurance.

That's all aside from the fact that if you did this you are technically defrauding your insurer and are violating the concept of utmost good faith.

unkel

Rod Munch wrote: »

You could technically do it alright but you would most likely be covered for third party only

Other car extensions is always third party only.

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Say I buy a second car, put it on my brothers name. Can I drive that car under my main cars third party extension?

Yes, but only occasionally. If you drive it all the time, it's fronting, which is not allowed. Would they ever find out? Probably not, but if you have a big enough claim, you'd be surprised what they will come up with :cool:

unkel

Thoie wrote: »

it would be to stop you putting a "weekend" car in your wife's name, not insuring it, and then driving it every weekend.

Exactly, that's fronting too.

Like yourself, I usually ring up before I pick up the car (or straight after I have bought the car) to change over the insurance (temporarily or permanently), this usually costs me nothing

In my case it's even handier as I have classic insurance and I can add any classic car for €100 for the year, fully comp. So if it's 6 months to renewal it costs me just €50 and should I take it off 3 months later I get a €25 refund

The one thing that would make a difference for me though is if I buy a car after hours, say on a Friday night, can I drive it home on my third party extension or do I have to wait until Monday morning to ring my insurance company?

Cows Go µ

unkel wrote: »

The one thing that would make a difference for me though is if I buy a car after hours, say on a Friday night, can I drive it home on my third party extension or do I have to wait until Monday morning to ring my insurance company?

If you know what time you are picking it up, you call the company on Friday afternoon and tell them the time you are picking it up and they will change it over from that time. If you aren't sure if you are going to take the car, they sometimes will take an email instruction but that would have to be preapproved. But not all companies will do that.

I prefer to do it a few days in advance (if I'm really sure I'm getting the car) that way I can have the disc before I pick it up so I drive home with a valid disc in the window. It's not strictly necessary or possible but it's nice when it can be done. Last time I bought a car I called them on the Thursday morning to tell them I was getting it Saturday so they had the disc in the post that day and I got it on the Friday in time for getting the car

unkel

Cows Go µ wrote: »

they sometimes will take an email instruction but that would have to be preapproved.

Never thought of that. I will give that a try see what they say.

Cows Go µ

unkel wrote: »

Never thought of that. I will give that a try see what they say.

Not everyone does it and it might take some convincing but there's no harm in trying. Try and give them no reason to say no to it. If you're emailing you have to say something along the lines of "with immediate effect" or the change over time would have to be after the time you send the email. Basically, you can't email on Saturday morning to make a change for Friday night. Check with them the exact wording they want to avoid confusion

Liam McPoyle

unkel wrote: »

Other car extensions is always third party only.

Nope, some providers offer comp for DoC, I've heard a few ads the radio recently that the AA offer it.

Iirc one of the big players offered it too a few years ago, possibly Allianz.

Cows Go µ

Aviva offer the comp driving of other cars (with about 20 restrictions of course )

unkel

Rod Munch wrote: »

Nope, some providers offer comp for DoC, I've heard a few ads the radio recently that the AA offer it.

Iirc one of the big players offered it too a few years ago, possibly Allianz.

Interesting to hear, but I've never seen it on any of my policies and I change regularly. AA is not an insurer BTW, just a broker. They can't set any conditions for the policy

And from Allianz website where driving other cars is an optional extra: "Enjoy Third Party cover while driving other private cars, giving you the freedom and flexibility you need.

Your legal liability to third parties is covered "

Unless someone can specifically quote that fully comp is covered on the driving other cars extension, I think we should stick with the "third party only is covered" hypothesis

unkel

Cows Go µ wrote: »

Aviva offer the comp driving of other cars (with about 20 restrictions of course )

With Aviva driving other cars is standard (not an optional extra), but the cover is also third party only:

"We will provide you, the policyholder, with Third Party cover when you drive a car someone else owns"

Cows Go µ

unkel wrote: »

With Aviva driving other cars is standard (not an optional extra), but the cover is also third party only:

"We will provide you, the policyholder, with Third Party cover when you drive a car someone else owns"

They definitely do it, it's mentioned on the policy schedule only, not the booklet. I think it's endorsement PC88 and the restrictions are on the second page of the schedule (they take up a whole page and everything)

My dad is insured with them so I could probably dig out the schedule to confirm it

unkel

Please do! That said, a lot of current insurance policies have legacy features, no longer available to new customers. Like my own classic car policy where I can add classic cars to it that are 15 years or older. Any new policies are strictly confined to 20 year old cars and older

mik_da_man

unkel wrote: »

Other car extensions is always third party only.

Nope - I have fully comp driving other cars on my Policy with Axa.
It was an optional extra, but they do it.

Cows Go µ

I've attached the section that notes the cover is comp and the restrictions for it.

I know it's still offered for new business as I'm actually working in a broker but perhaps it's specific to brokers or something like that.

Marcusm

unkel wrote: »

Please do! That said, a lot of current insurance policies have legacy features, no longer available to new customers. Like my own classic car policy where I can add classic cars to it that are 15 years or older. Any new policies are strictly confined to 20 year old cars and older

My brother's insurance has comp cover for driving other cars but only up to 3L. He thought he only had cover for cars up to 3L rather than 3P on all cars. '''Twas academic as I would only lend him the 1.6 not the 4.2 in any event!

cplwhisper

-If u pay for the car
-Ur partner pays or owns car
-Your employers owns it thus their company car
-You rent it ..enterprise etc

If You are financially involved then DOC excludes those cars

If u pay, stick in mums name, u crash and if major claim your mum may have to prove she bought the car(proof of transaction from bank has been sought before ) then u in the sh1t...

Marcusm

Just to support CiniO's experience, I have checked my most recent policies which are both Liberty. Neither excludes spouse/partner owned cars, unlike some of my previous policies. It's irrelevant to me but there it is. And just to be clear, the property of one person does not belong to another just because of marriage. There is equally no "regular use" exception but cover is excluded is I am otherwise covered under another insurance policy to drive the car (such as if I was a named driver or if the car was subject to an open drive policy).

zapata

unkel wrote: »

In my case it's even handier as I have classic insurance and I can add any classic car for €100 for the year, fully comp. So if it's 6 months to renewal it costs me just €50 and should I take it off 3 months later I get a €25 refund

The one thing that would make a difference for me though is if I buy a car after hours, say on a Friday night, can I drive it home on my third party extension or do I have to wait until Monday morning to ring my insurance company?

Hi unkel,
Do you know if the 3rd party extension on the classic policy covers temporary use on a car less than 15 years old?

unkel

There's no mention of any age, so yes.

zapata

I've heard that the companies are now saying the 3rd party cover is for 'use in an emergency only'. But I haven't seen it written anywhere. Could this rule out trip to the shops and test drive. Anyone else hear of this.

unkel

Never heard that. It certainly isn't in my classic policy. Not in my wife's policy on the family car.

grogi

unkel wrote: »

The one thing that would make a difference for me though is if I buy a car after hours, say on a Friday night, can I drive it home on my third party extension or do I have to wait until Monday morning to ring my insurance company?

No, you can't. Once the money changed hands, the ownership changed hands as well.

But... You might agree with the seller that you just put down the non-refundable deposit for the car and you are taking it for an extended test drive. That way you did not acquired that car yet. Technicality, but covers you from perjury, if it gets to that.

unkel wrote: »

Interesting to hear, but I've never seen it on any of my policies and I change regularly. AA is not an insurer BTW, just a broker. They can't set any conditions for the policy

They sell enough policies to be able to negotiate with the underwriters the terms and pricing of the policies they sell.

unkel wrote: »

Unless someone can specifically quote that fully comp is covered on the driving other cars extension, I think we should stick with the "third party only is covered" hypothesis

I can. At the end, SUBSECTION 8 - AA Member driving other cars...

http://www.theaa.ie/~/media/Files/AA-Ireland/Motor/MotorPolicyBooklet-July16-v02.ashx?la=en

zapata wrote: »

I've heard that the companies are now saying the 3rd party cover is for 'use in an emergency only'. But I haven't seen it written anywhere. Could this rule out trip to the shops and test drive. Anyone else hear of this.

That is their way to discourage people from using it. It's pure bull****.

grogi

Marcusm wrote: »

Just to support CiniO's experience, I have checked my most recent policies which are both Liberty. Neither excludes spouse/partner owned cars, unlike some of my previous policies. It's irrelevant to me but there it is. And just to be clear, the property of one person does not belong to another just because of marriage. There is equally no "regular use" exception but cover is excluded is I am otherwise covered under another insurance policy to drive the car (such as if I was a named driver or if the car was subject to an open drive policy).

I wonder what happens if you are covered with two policies, both allow driving other cars and both exclude the cover if any other policy covers it...

Marcusm

grogi wrote: »

I wonder what happens if you are covered with two policies, both allow driving other cars and both exclude the cover if any other policy covers it...

Ask Joseph Heller, that's a classic catch 22. I think it would end up 50/50 as neither of them could legitimately walk away.

Special Circumstances

zapata wrote: »

I've heard that the companies are now saying the 3rd party cover is for 'use in an emergency only'. But I haven't seen it written anywhere. Could this rule out trip to the shops and test drive. Anyone else hear of this.

Hahaha "emergency use only" is up there with "non standard audio equipment". They should not be allowed write this vague bvllsh1tty conditions into things.