Civil Guard

pinkypinky

Following on from some help in the handwriting thread, I have someone identified as a sergeant in the civil guard in 1928. Is this the Gardaí?

This technically is more of a history/heritage question but since it began as a handwriting query, I'll leave it here for now.

L1011

Seeing as Civil Defence didn't exist yet, I'd assume its the Gardai and someone who either didn't want or couldn't spell it in Irish. Civil Guard is not a terrible translation.

P. Breathnach

I have heard and read the expression "Civic Guard" sufficiently often to consider that it was in somewhat common usage.

pedroeibar1

pinkypinky wrote: »

Following on from some help in the handwriting thread, I have someone identified as a sergeant in the civil guard in 1928. Is this the Gardaí?

This technically is more of a history/heritage question but since it began as a handwriting query, I'll leave it here for now.

Hi Pinky,
The term 'civic guard' was falling into obsolescence by 1928 and became an anachronism ....although used into recent times, its later use was somewhat facetious (Myles na gCopaleen used it). The RIC was disbanded in 1922 and replaced by the Civic Guard. It was merged with what was the DMP and became the Garda Síochána (1925?6?). I'd guess that anyone with the rank of sergeant in 1928 probably had prior service in either the RIC or DMP so those records would be worth a look into.

pinkypinky

Thanks Pedro. I had a quick search on FMP and turned up nothing that matched. I have his DOB/place of birth, etc. Will also try the Gardaí archive.

Hermy

The people on the RIC Facebook page are a helpful bunch and might have info.

Peregrinus

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Hi Pinky,
The term 'civic guard' was falling into obsolescence by 1928 and became an anachronism ....although used into recent times, its later use was somewhat facetious (Myles na gCopaleen used it). The RIC was disbanded in 1922 and replaced by the Civic Guard. It was merged with what was the DMP and became the Garda Síochána (1925?6?).

Strictly speaking, it was actually the "Civic Guard" only from February 1922 (when it was formed to replace both the RIC and the Irish Republican Police) and August 1923, when it was renamed the Garda Síochána. After August 1923 the two names were used by many as the English and Irish alternative names for the force, although in fact only "Garda Síochána" had any official standing. Many people who felt they didn't have the blas for "Garda Síochána" continued to refer to the force as the Civic Guard.

The merger with the DMP was, as you say, in 1925, and after that the term "Civic Guard" began to fall out of use, being replaced as the preferred English-language name with the simple "the Guards".

4ensic15

Civil Guard is an oxymoron. It was always Civic Guard.

Peregrinus

4ensic15 wrote: »

Civil Guard is an oxymoron. It was always Civic Guard.

"Civil Guard" isn't an oxymoron. It's perfectly possible to guard things in a civil fashion.

But, yeah, "Civic Guard" was name in use in 1922-23. "Civil guard" probably arose in error, under the influence of (a) the fact that "civil" is a word in much more common use than "civic", (b) "civil guard" is in fact the name of police forces in a number of countries, most notably Spain ("Guardia Civil") and (c) it suggests the civilian character of the force, in market distinction to the RIC which was popularly regarded as (and in fact was) a quasi-military force.
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tabbey

For English speakers, 97% of RoI population, it was commonly known as the civic guard into the 1960s and for some people later.

It was really the roof signs on Garda cars which changed most people's terminology.