Remap (dyno vs software only remap)

ION08

Sorry about the title, but its the most accurate description I could think of.

Now I'm not new to remapping, having had a total of 3 cars remapped.

I know "proper" remaps are considered to be those done by the likes of Joe Power or Martin from Autoremap where the car is Dyno'd multiple times and various parameters are adjusted accordingly.

My first 2 cars were remapped by Joe and they were great, no issues there.

Now, my third car was an Audi TT 225 Quattro which I had remapped by Optidrive.

I was initially skeptical and rolled my eyes at what I would have considered a "generic" map simply done via OBD while the cars was parked up.

I went with it anyway as I received a promotional offer and in the end I was actually really surprised by this.

1. It's not actually a "generic" map. The cars current map is downloaded, sent to an experienced engineer in the UK (viezu technology iirc) and your cars parameters are all adjusted accordingly and the reuploaded so it is a "custom" apparently.

2. The car doesn't even have to go near a rolling road to be spanked and have its nuts revved off, the car doesn't even need to be turned on for the procedure which to me was a massive plus.

3. As the OBD remap doesn't involve a Dyno, it is significantly cheaper too


I now own a 3.0 V6 TDI Audi and am considering getting it remapped in the future and am having a hard time deciding whether I should go with a Dyno remap or Software remap.

I am leaning more towards returning to Optidrive and cannot really justify going to Joe or the likes.

I expect people to tell me to go with a "proper" remap by Joe power but not having noticed any tangible difference in Quality between the remaps i had done by Joe versus the one done by Optidrive, Id like to know what exactly a dyno remap can achieve that a software remap cant?

(Dare I even say that the TT remap seemed to be most noticeable in terms of how it felt before & after)

I'm just not sure whether the price difference between these two forms of remapping techniques is actually worth it alongside the half a day long spanking the car gets on the Dyno?

Interested to hear your thoughts..

pa990

Go with whatever you're happiest with.

My car is still under warranty, so I had the remap done by the manufacturer.

It's more costly, and did involve hardware changes

shietpilot

I'm running a software map in my Focus for a year. I read the old ECU map with my diagnostics kit and sent it to an experienced mapper I found on an international car mapping forum. Way more power and been reliable.

Dyno results are just numbers at the end of the day. I felt a huge difference after mapping and that was good enough for me.

tossy

I've owned 4 cars that have been mapped 2 were on a dyno and 2 were mapped while static.

The first car i ever got mapped was a 100pd golf done by Joe power years ago - i got it on a dyno soon after and it was a good linear map. It was a generic map for the car.

The second car i had mapped was my V6 Bora, this was done via e mail by SLS in Germany, it was a generic map to suit that engine with those mods, that was a great map that really brought the best of the engine especially when the second stage of the inlet manifold opened.

The third car i had mapped was my 8L S3 this was done on a dyno by Joe, i felt the dyno map was a real benefit here as the car was a high miler and these engines vary so much with age depending on the maintenance history. This was a great map, the best change was a more linear throttle pedal, the standard map tended to open a large percentage of throttle for a small amount of pedal Joe mapped it so the relationship between amount of pedal and amount of throttle was closer.

The 4th car - my current S3 was mapped by MTM in the UK, it's a generic map but again i find it a good map.

So (sorry for wandering) i would always favour a dyno mapped car but if the person doing the mapping is capable and the writer of the generic map is capable then there is no reason not to go generic map while the car is static.

As a matter of interest have you got a price from Joe? Is there a big difference , i am just wondering why you are shying away from the dyno option. Another option is Daltons who are now Revo dealers.

ION08

tossy wrote: »

I've owned 4 cars that have been mapped 2 were on a dyno and 2 were mapped while static.

The first car i ever got mapped was a 100pd golf done by Joe power years ago - i got it on a dyno soon after and it was a good linear map. It was a generic map for the car.

The second car i had mapped was my V6 Bora, this was done via e mail by SLS in Germany, it was a generic map to suit that engine with those mods, that was a great map that really brought the best of the engine especially when the second stage of the inlet manifold opened.

The third car i had mapped was my 8L S3 this was done on a dyno by Joe, i felt the dyno map was a real benefit here as the car was a high miler and these engines vary so much with age depending on the maintenance history. This was a great map, the best change was a more linear throttle pedal, the standard map tended to open a large percentage of throttle for a small amount of pedal Joe mapped it so the relationship between amount of pedal and amount of throttle was closer.

The 4th car - my current S3 was mapped by MTM in the UK, it's a generic map but again i find it a good map.

So (sorry for wandering) i would always favour a dyno mapped car but if the person doing the mapping is capable and the writer of the generic map is capable then there is no reason not to go generic map while the car is static.

As a matter of interest have you got a price from Joe? Is there a big difference , i am just wondering why you are shying away from the dyno option. Another option is Daltons who are now Revo dealers.

Thanks, very insightful. I was half expecting to be lynched for even considering a software only map to be honest.

I saw that Daltons now offer REVO software but it's too expensive imo.

As regards a quote from Joe, no I haven't rang him yet but will definitely give him a shout when the time comes. (Along with Autoremap and Sportchip)

..That being said, based on the quotes I was getting when I remapped my TT I dont think they will even come close pricewise seeing as Optidrive are already offering me a €220 "returning customer" deal.
Also, seeing as the car is Quattro permanent 4wd I would expect almost twice that for a Dyno remap.

As for why I'm shying away from the Dyno option... I guess it comes down to the 3 things: price, convenience, and the fact that my car wont spend half a day being ragged on a Dyno.

Now Im still not ruling the Dyno option out but based on the above 3 points, I really want to be able to justify it to myself and understand what the extra benefit is.. if any??

tossy

A dyno map never cost me more than 350 to 400 euro, which for a proper bespoke map by someone i trust isn't bad value IMO.

As for a day, it will take no more than an hour. The 'ragged' comment is probably a little harsh, it's no harder on a car than a hard pull down a motorway, the car gets plenty of air. (although i do remember seeing pics of one dyno in Ireland using a carpet drier as a fan lol) It's also a great chance to get a health check on a car. Joe was able to tell me my 8L S3 had been running a little lean - which i later found out if a known problem with that 1.8T lump.

Trust is a big issue for me with maps, there are alot of people buying maps and a cable from the UK or even worse a lot of people just buying a cable and turning parameters up to 11.

George Dalton

The whole argument is academic anyway because I don't think any of the mappers mentioned are in a position to do a rolling road map on a quattro.

ION08

George Dalton wrote: »

The whole argument is academic anyway because I don't think any of the mappers mentioned are in a position to do a rolling road map on a quattro.

Interesting!

So how much exactly for a Revo software remap??

George Dalton

George Dalton wrote: »

The whole argument is academic anyway because I don't think any of the mappers mentioned are in a position to do a rolling road map on a quattro.

George,
Do you guys use a dyno?
Looking at getting a revo map/intake on my own gti this year:cool:

Wossack

you need to be comparing like with like - as in, software remap on the TT, with a dyno remap on the TT

comparing different remap experiences on different cars seems like an apples and oranges situation to me

George Dalton

BrownFinger wrote: »

George,
Do you guys use a dyno?
Looking at getting a revo map/intake on my own gti this year:cool:

No we don't have a dyno. What kind of GTI do you have?

George Dalton

ION08 wrote: »

Interesting!

So how much exactly for a Revo software remap??

REVO Stage 1 on a 3.0TDI works out at €540 including VAT.

easygoing39

There is a 3rd option,my car was done on the M1 near Derby.Live-mapped by the tuner in the passenger seat while I drove.

George Dalton

George Dalton wrote: »

No we don't have a dyno. What kind of GTI do you have?

mk5

would she make 250bhp?

ION08

George Dalton wrote: »

REVO Stage 1 on a 3.0TDI works out at €540 including VAT.

Interesting, and what sort of power would that produce?

I don't mean to be facetious but does REVO offer anything more than what other software mappers can provide or is it that you are paying more for the name so to speak?

George Dalton

BrownFinger wrote: »

mk5

would she make 250bhp?

Probably not altogether 250 on Irish petrol.

George Dalton

ION08 wrote: »

Interesting, and what sort of power would that produce?

I don't mean to be facetious but does REVO offer anything more than what other software mappers can provide or is it that you are paying more for the name so to speak?

Figures depend on which exact version of the 3.0 engine you have.

REVO are a big organisation, with over 400 dealers in 40 plus countries and with access to hundreds of development vehicles. That means when you pay for REVO you know exactly what you are getting. That is not always the case with other tuners. I know from experience that there are some very good tuners out there (EG Joe Power) but there are also a lot of chancers.

ION08

Hi guys,

So the time has come to remap my 3.0 TDI Quattro..

I was initially gonna go with Optidrive, however, I'm just off the phone to Joe Power and also Greg at 'SportChip'.

They both said they would be happy to remap my car albeit not on a Dyno. (so a static bespoke software remap)

Joe quoted me 350 Euro (which seems a bit steep?)

Greg said he could do it for 200 Euro , which is actually cheaper than the "returning customer offer" of 220 I was quoted from Optidrive.

I think I will go with Greg Sportchip because of the surprisingly good quote and also because he seems quite reputable?

(I once drove an e46 320d remapped by him many years ago and it pulled like a train)

Does anyone have any further experiences of SportChip before I go ahead and pull the trigger??

Thanks for all of the informative responses so far..

Neilw

€200 sounds very cheap, I've never heard of that guy before either.
Joe knows his stuff.
Have you contacted George Dalton about Revo? He has done some 3 litre tdi' s and the owners were delighted. I was only talking to him the other day about them.

ION08

Neilw wrote: »

€200 sounds very cheap, I've never heard of that guy before either.
Joe knows his stuff.
Have you contacted George Dalton about Revo? He has done some 3 litre tdi' s and the owners were delighted. I was only talking to him the other day about them.

Was only talking to George myself at the weekend.

I'm just after spending €800 on the car (Full service and more) so can't really justify another €570 for a REVO remap.

I thought Greg from SportChip was one of the more "popular" Remappers. I think he races in the ITCC (which he won) and maps his own car.

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