New build house - Cabling

5starpool

Probably a stupid question, so apologies firstly for that, but I am moving into a new build house (part of an estate so not an individual build) in a few months and the house is at the stage where it is being wired, etc in the next couple of weeks.

Is there anything I can/should ask to be done in terms of cabling around the house? The house has a fibre cabinet near it and I've been assured it will be able to receive fibre from that, so presumably up to 100mb (depending on distance, etc, usual caveats), but it is beside a road with a blue line on the fibre rollout map so will hopefully be able to get FTTH in time.

This is probably the main part with the stupid questions, but if at the minute BB comes in via the phone line and into a router, is there a need for extra cabling to other parts of the house? Is there an advantage to this? I won't be doing anything fancy, just normal internet use, so is there anything I should be asking the builders/electricians to do to improve anything? Will the broadband be only at a single point of entry into the house typically, or if there was sufficient cabling could there be wired spots all over the house that you could plug directly into for access?

Any help/info appreciated.

ED E

Crazy not to wire the place up with ethernet now. Going back to snake it is a big job but while the cavities are open its easy and the cost of materials is very very low.


If you're on a blue route have your builder ensure there is a spare string in the duct up the drive and that it is clear. (also needs to comply with turn radius rules). Will make an FTTH install a lot faster.


Basic idea is to pick a point that suitable for a small comms box/cabinet and have Cat6 drawn from there to every room. Personally I'd do two runs per faceplate. Then it doesnt really matter who your provider is, once they intersect with one point and thus changing at need isnt a big hassle. Also be aware that some sparks have no idea about networking and can run cabling for phones in a way that is useless for anything else.

The Cush

Yes, I would agree, run at least 2 Ethernet cables to each room from a central location and 2 from the external box to this location also. My brother did this with his new build a few years ago. When it comes to cabling run all you need now, this includes co-ax for TV (terrestrial/sat/cable).

If required in future it's better to be looking at it than looking for it.

Next year SkyQ will be available without a dish, Saorview Connect is on the way, the future is IP and so handy to have the cabling ready to go.

Planning for FTTH, I believe the ONT will be placed as close to the house entry point as possible, power point ready and Ethernet cabling to the central router location might be advisable. Others here who have already got it installed might be able to advise.

The Cush

Some FTTH install pics

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97182310
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97793128#post97793128
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97842227#post97842227


ONT (Optical Network Terminal)
ODP (Optical Distribution Point)

murphaph

I recently built a house so had to consider all this stuff.

My guiding principal was to try to identify any devices that could run on Ethernet, even if they also support wifi. The idea is to relieve the wifi network for devices that are actually mobile and need it and let everything else use Ethernet.

I imagine in the future many devices that are currently isolated will be network ready, so I ran Ethernet to behind the kitchen appliances, for example. I do not even have sockets there, but I know the cable is there if I ever need it.

I also decided to minimise co-ax runs (I only have 2 TV points) and instead run Ethernet to likely media receivers. I believe TV will be all IP soon enough, indeed in our house we already only watch IPTV services. The co-ax is not even used.

However if I did nothing else I would run Ethernet to a central point on the ceiling on each floor (central to the house) to allow you to at the very least fit decent wifi access points (using PoE you don't need to run power to them by the way) so you will at the very least be assured of good quality wifi throughout the house.

Wifi repeaters are a sub-optimal solution that drastically reduce the bandwidth.

By the way consider running speaker cable to speaker locations in the ceiling if you are thinking about multi-room audio.

KeRbDoG

ED E wrote: »

Basic idea is to pick a point that suitable for a small comms box/cabinet and have Cat6 drawn from there to every room. Personally I'd do two runs per faceplate. Then it doesn't really matter who your provider is, once they intersect with one point and thus changing at need isn't a big hassle. Also be aware that some sparks have no idea about networking and can run cabling for phones in a way that is useless for anything else.

Ideally make sure you have;

• the duct from the side of the property which would normally be used for a telephone line, enter your house and ideally have a route then to the mentioned comms box/cabinet. Having a way of pulling a cable in the future along this path would be great, should you want to pull fiber from the drop point in your house all the way to your comms box/cab. Might be OTT for most folks setups but I'm happy I planned for it easy to do when a house isn't finished yet but a PITA when a house build is finished
• from that comms box/cab, two runs per living space should be the minimum - bedrooms/kitchen/sitting room etc.
• be happy with the idea that you will not get their locations in a room perfect - the use of a room always changes from what you expected from a house drawing/plan
• don't get bogged down in the CAT5e/CAT6 debate on what copper data cabling to use. Run whatever suits your budget and which you don't think is extortionate. CAT6 will be labeled as 'future proofing' but again, whatever your budget allows

Johnboy1951

Ethernet cable to two points in each room.
Pull two wires to each point for redundancy or breakage. The wire is cheap.
Bring all wires back to a central location ...... similar to a 'hot press' or cupboard.

Cat5e does 1G unless you have a spread-out mansion with very long cable runs. Cat6 is also 1G but guaranteed over longer distances.
Cat6 can be a bit more difficult to manage when pulling through.

I have stripped almost all coax from my house .... some still waiting for me to tear it out as I renovate.
I ran two Cat5e cables to two points in all rooms.
All cables back to a central locations.

I thus have the capability to use a physically separate local network if I wish, for media distribution including stored media and LiveTV over the LAN.
At the moment I use only one of each pair of cables.

All devices that can attach to the LAN (phones, tablets, PCs, laptops, smart TVs, media client devices such as R-Pi, NUC etc etc can receive LiveTV and access stored content.
The LAN also includes wireless access so phones connect wirelessly while client devices are wired.

At present I have coax from media cupboard to LNB, but I have hopes in the future of using Sat>IP LNB/dish to get rid of that too.

For the future Fibre run (hopefully) I have a duct from the cupboard to the boundary, as well as a spare duct going to a box on the inside of the boundary wall.
Those are in addition to the Electricity and telephone ducts which also come to the same cupboard. The ESB consumer unit is on the other side of one wall of the cupboard.

Everything centralised - near enough.
There is sufficient space for routers, switches, servers, tuners etc.

I probably have not thought of everything, but hopefully most things are covered.

Presently the media & TV distribution is a joy to use.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

At present I have coax from media cupboard to LNB, but I have hopes in the future of using Sat>IP LNB/dish to get rid of that too.

As you know this isn't an option for most satellite users, particularly SkyQ subscribers. Sky has chosen to stay with co-ax for it new generation boxes.

The standard appears to be dying from lack of support, as you posted elsewhere. It also looks like Freesat may be going the wideband/dSCR route.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

For about a year now I have had in mind converting to Sat>IP for my FTA TV reception, and distribution throughout the home.

...

Strangely, neither of those products seem to be available anymore, and there seems to be no replacement products either!

...

This page provides information about Sat>IP devices, but seems to be out of date as the two LNBs I mentioned above are still listed
http://www.satip.info/products/sat%3Eip%20servers

...

Is the Sat>IP LNB dead before it really took off?
Are there any new products available?

Is the SelfSat system the only 'LNB' option now?
If so one might wonder how long that will remain available.

@5starpool
If you plan to subscribe to Sky at some point in the future run 2 co-ax cables from the attic or dish location to the main TV point.
If you plan to go with Freesat/FTA satellite/Saorview a min. of 3 cables to the main TV point and cabling to other TV points as required.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote:

The standard appears to be dying from lack of support, as you posted elsewhere. It also looks like Freesat may be going the wideband/dSCR route.

Yes, I posted in the hope that others might have noticed something I missed and post there. Unfortunately no responses

I do not know why this is fading ..... just means the functions go into a receiver/server box fed with multiple coax cables or equivalent.

The house distribution over LAN is the same.

Maybe we will see wideband receivers/servers come to market .....

.

9726_9726

Just to add, don't just tell your spark you want Cat5e/Cat6 to each room. They almost *always* run it in an idiotic loop between the face plates, in a useless ring configuration.

It must be a STAR from the central location with a dedicated run to every point.

Might sound obvious but almost always done wrong.

5starpool

Thanks all, very helpful as always. I'll be speaking to the electrician in a few days as it's nearly ready to get all the wiring done. Some very useful informative stuff here.

5starpool

I'm meeting the electrician in the morning to go through this stuff with him. I've decided that I will ask for Cat 6 (might as well even though 5e would be fine) throughout. In terms of a comms box through which everything will be routed, would this typically be something that they'd generally supply or fit if I supplied? I'm certainly not going to assume that he'll know what's what, so I don't want him buying something too cheap or way too expensive for my needs.

Is this essentially just something that all the connections in the house will need to plug into (which is located in the attic or whetever) and will have a single cable the other side connected to the Internet? A bit simplistic perhaps, but some examples of what would be needed here would be appreciated.

Also, on a side note, I'm guessing that a setup like this if done right will allow me to have a media server that I can access from any point in my house?

ED E

Size depends on how much room you have and what you want. Switch and patch panel are mandatory. If you fit CCTV then a DVR is added to that, and a media server can fit there too.

Something like this is probably the smallest you'd go. If its for the attic then dust is a consideration.

5starpool

Size shouldn't be a problem. It may well be the attic, but I've no problem putting an extra cover or case around something to help with that if needs be. Also, I've seen various metal racks, but what is the thing that all the cables plug into called? Is that just the switch? Can I get 24 cable switches? I'd imagine that I'd need about 16-18 cables now and then a few extra if I convert the attic.

I doubt I'd need cctv, but good to have the capability anyhow in case.

Edit: Something like tis would be fine I assume?

http://www.cablemonkey.ie/d-link-smart-switches/2387-d-link-dgs-1210-24-network-switch-0790069332302.html

Johnboy1951

5starpool wrote: »

Size shouldn't be a problem. It may well be the attic, but I've no problem putting an extra cover or case around something to help with that if needs be. Also, I've seen various metal racks, but what is the thing that all the cables plug into called? Is that just the switch? Can I get 24 cable switches? I'd imagine that I'd need about 16-18 cables now and then a few extra if I convert the attic.

I doubt I'd need cctv, but good to have the capability anyhow in case.

Edit: Something like tis would be fine I assume?

http://www.cablemonkey.ie/d-link-smart-switches/2387-d-link-dgs-1210-24-network-switch-0790069332302.html

Patch Panel like this
http://www.icc.com/p/994/patch-panel-cat-6-24-port-1-rms

Different sizes etc are available
http://www.freetv.ie/networking/face-plates/patch-panels/

Switch suggestion
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Networking-Devices/TP-LINK-TL-SG1016DE-Gigabit-Switch-Simple-Network-Set-Up/B00CUG8ESM/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1484824485&sr=8-11&keywords=tp-link%2Bswitch&th=1

tsue921i8wljb3

Coincidentally I've just finished first fix on my brother's new build. What I went with was:

1) Two coaxial cables (WF100 or similar) to each room needing TV. These are fed back to a central location to be connected to a 5x12 multiswitch. This enables 6 rooms to have two satellite connections (for recording). Bear in mind that Sky Q will need a different configuration. My brother will not be using Q.

2) Two Cat6 cables fed to each TV point. One to be terminated and one left unterminated for potential future use. All Cat6 fed back to a central location to be terminated into a patch panel. Patch panel then connected to 24 port gigabit switch.

3) Put a network point beside your phone master socket if you'll be getting VDSL or ADSL. You can then connect your router to the network point distributing your internet connection to all the other points.

4) I ran pre-terminated Cat6 from the central point to the middle of the ground floor to enable connection of a Ubiquiti Uninfi access point. This may or may not be needed depending on wireless coverage. You could do similar for the first floor.

There are also methods of distributing all your video over Cat6 (HDBaseT). I looked into it but my brother could not justify the expense. Nice if money is no object though.

I've no idea what an electrician will charge, I would actually be interested to hear what you are quoted. Frankly it is a pain in the arse especially if you are dealing with a tiny attic and concrete first floor as I was.

If you've any questions just ask.

murphaph

Yeah I also installed Unifi access points. In our house they are essential as the foil backing on th insulation and water in the UFH pipework seems to block a lot of the signal. Our basement ceiling is reinforced concrete and with UFH as above literally nothing gets through to the ground floor from the basement, so we need 3 access points for decent wifi in the house.

Pulling the cables is super tedious and backbreaking sometimes. I did all low voltage stuff myself to save costs.

Johnboy1951

Zane Salmon Tray wrote: »

Coincidentally I've just finished first fix on my brother's new build. What I went with was:

1) Two coaxial cables (WF100 or similar) to each room needing TV. These are fed back to a central location to be connected to a 5x12 multiswitch. This enables 6 rooms to have two satellite connections (for recording). Bear in mind that Sky Q will need a different configuration. My brother will not be using Q.

Interesting to see coax still being installed in new builds while I am busy pulling all the coax out

scamalert

for OP if they are doing wiring id try to get cat5e-6 or whatever flies into every room you'll be using,main point to consider is to plan where you might use equipment in each room,wouldn't be very concerned to get panels on the walls properly wired since id imagine that would add extra cost,as opposed to just get wire from one point to another routed through the house.

that said thinking now id get couple weather proof cables for say second first floor,and one out the back,to hook up ip cams at some time.