How can an employer looking for tuition fundiing back

galwaylad1976

I have been working for a company for about 7 years and in that time my employer has funded a 3 year degree which I completed last year.

One of the stipulations for funding was I agreed to stay with them for 3 years after the course finishes. However, even though it was suggested the company would move me into a role more suited to my new qualification and skills one I completed the course I am still working the same role as before.

I have been looking at new jobs elsewhere and have lined up 2 interviews. My question is - how can the company enforce the rule where I have to pay them back the tuition funding. I only have one months notice period so taking my final months salary would not cover it. Can they even withhold my salary legally?

Hollister11

Eh court??

3 years education is about 9K. No company is going to forgo that amount of money, especially for a employee that up and left.

Xterminator

HI OP

why would you even risk it? your employer has invested in you & you just ....

anyway, my understanding is they couldn't deduct from your salary without your consent, but could draft a solicitors letter and take you to court. plus you have been working with them for years, wouldn't you need to leave on decent terms for reference purposes?

i suspect you are thinking short term, not long term in this case.

Mitzy

They will take it from your final salary & bill you for the balance. It's standard that a company who funds education will look for the fees back if you leave the company.

davo10

galwaylad1976 wrote: »

I have been working for a company for about 7 years and in that time my employer has funded a 3 year degree which I completed last year.

One of the stipulations for funding was I agreed to stay with them for 3 years after the course finishes. However, even though it was suggested the company would move me into a role more suited to my new qualification and skills one I completed the course I am still working the same role as before.

I have been looking at new jobs elsewhere and have lined up 2 interviews. My question is - how can the company enforce the rule where I have to pay them back the tuition funding. I only have one months notice period so taking my final months salary would not cover it. Can they even withhold my salary legally?

I suppose the first consideration should be that you entered an agreement and benefited from it. They paid your college fees, allowed you the time to do the course and in return you agreed to stay with them for three years after completion. To not do so is extremely poor form and would be reflected in any future conversation with employers.

As to whether they can legally sue you for recovery of fees, that depends on what the agreement was between you and your employer. Considering the costs associated with these types of courses and the precedent it would set by allowing you to renege on your agreement, I'd say you can be certain that they will seek legal advice on this. They kept up their side of the bargain, you aren't keeping up yours.

Would be a shame that you could not get a good reference from a company that you spent 7 years working for.

galwaylad1976

Yeah absolutely, I understand the problems I could face by leaving but my concern is my attempts to move into a new field will go stale if I don't start working in a role related to my degree.

I can see myself in 3 years going for interview and being asked "ok so you qualified three years ago but are only looking to work in the area now... why is that?" Also, I will have forgot most of what I have learnt too.

what I am really hoping is by finding another job my current employer my be more inclined to change my role or at least they might be more understanding as to why I want to move.

Just to note, I wouldn't leave them without coming to a mutual agreement that suited both of us... I just could not afford to pay back, what is actually €12,000, in one go but I am just concerned in case they get awkward about it.

Do you really want to start a new job in debt to the tune of 12k

When did you get your degree?
It's probably more a case of them waiting for a position to become available, as opposed to creating a position

MarkR

You may need to buy yourself out then. I would talk to your employer first, letting them know that you are not happy with your current role, and find out from them what is required of you in regard to repayments for training.

Did you sign anything? Is there anything in your contract?

December2012

Then the first thing might be to have a talk with them about moving roles within the company itself

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

pilly

galwaylad1976 wrote: »

Yeah absolutely, I understand the problems I could face by leaving but my concern is my attempts to move into a new field will go stale if I don't start working in a role related to my degree.

I can see myself in 3 years going for interview and being asked "ok so you qualified three years ago but are only looking to work in the area now... why is that?" Also, I will have forgot most of what I have learnt too.

what I am really hoping is by finding another job my current employer my be more inclined to change my role or at least they might be more understanding as to why I want to move.

Just to note, I wouldn't leave them without coming to a mutual agreement that suited both of us... I just could not afford to pay back, what is actually €12,000, in one go but I am just concerned in case they get awkward about it.

You're playing with fire relying on a new job offer to bargain for what you want from a present employer.

If there is a role available there maybe they will give it to in time.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Sorry to hijack slightly , but im in a similar position . Currently doing a degree of my choosing paid for myself upfront . Applied for work to pay for some of the costs and so far they have refunded me 4k (2 years) . ave currently paid for yr 3 upfront and will apply for costs once exams are passed and hope to gte between 40-75 % of fees back .
I dont intend to be there in 2 years as there is no role in this company for me in the area im studying . What im wondering is , i havent signed anything or agreed to anything in relation to refunding fees if I leave and there is no policy in relation to this . Does this mean that I can walk away without a care or is there likely to be comeback sought ?

Thanks.

pilly

I'm genuinely shocked that people think it's okay to request employers to pay for their education and then walk away without repaying anything either in money or effort.

CIARAN_BOYLE

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Sorry to hijack slightly , but im in a similar position . Currently doing a degree of my choosing paid for myself upfront . Applied for work to pay for some of the costs and so far they have refunded me 4k (2 years) . ave currently paid for yr 3 upfront and will apply for costs once exams are passed and hope to gte between 40-75 % of fees back .
I dont intend to be there in 2 years as there is no role in this company for me in the area im studying . What im wondering is , i havent signed anything or agreed to anything in relation to refunding fees if I leave and there is no policy in relation to this . Does this mean that I can walk away without a care or is there likely to be comeback sought ?

Thanks.

Are you sure its not covered in whatever form you used to apply for fees. Perhaps in the small print.

the_syco

galwaylad1976 wrote: »

One of the stipulations for funding was I agreed to stay with them for 3 years after the course finishes. However, even though it was suggested the company would move me into a role more suited to my new qualification and skills one I completed the course I am still working the same role as before.

Have you brought your new skills up with the manager of said other role? How good were your final grades? Very good, excellent, or just average?

C.O.Y.B.I.B

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Are you sure its not covered in whatever form you used to apply for fees. Perhaps in the small print.

There was no form , I emailed the HR person in charge of training with my grades and they refunded in my next pay check. They can very lax with regard to formalities sometimes which I'm hoping is in my favour this time

C.O.Y.B.I.B

pilly wrote: »

I'm genuinely shocked that people think it's okay to request employers to pay for their education and then walk away without repaying anything either in money or effort.

In my case , my employer would have benefited from some of the skills I've learnt over the almost 3 years I've been studying already. If they create a role which allows me to fully utilise the skills they've paid for , then I'll happily stay.
I was prepared pay for it myself , however if they are also happy to fund it , great especially if they haven't asked me to sign up to pay it back. This is a large organisation with 3.5k staff and as said they can be a bit lax in certain areas.

davo10

Ah here, claiming they are benefitting from the work you are being paid to do while they pay for you to go to college and using that to justify leaving once you have the degree they paid for is a bit simplistic. Why would any employer consider paying for college if that rationale stood?

Jawgap

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Sorry to hijack slightly , but im in a similar position . Currently doing a degree of my choosing paid for myself upfront . Applied for work to pay for some of the costs and so far they have refunded me 4k (2 years) . ave currently paid for yr 3 upfront and will apply for costs once exams are passed and hope to gte between 40-75 % of fees back .
I dont intend to be there in 2 years as there is no role in this company for me in the area im studying . What im wondering is , i havent signed anything or agreed to anything in relation to refunding fees if I leave and there is no policy in relation to this . Does this mean that I can walk away without a care or is there likely to be comeback sought ?

Thanks.

Probably depends on the size of the organisation and their policy.

I worked in the public service and the policy was that if you left within 2 years you had to pay back back a pro-rata amount of the tutition - in other words the sooner you left within that 2 year period the more you paid.

There's also the question of a reference - you're entitled to one and you'll get one, but it could say very little which in itself can make getting another job very difficult.

Personally, I think you do owe them - either your time or their money, given they were good enough to pay.

EDIT: Plus you'll probably wreck it for everyone else - if the employer feels they've been stung they'll likely be less willing to fund future courses for other people

vintagecosmos

You might want to check the employee handbook and policies. Sometimes there is a policy in there you might not be aware of.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

davo10 wrote: »

Ah here, claiming they are benefitting from the work you are being paid to do while they pay for you to go to college and using that to justify leaving once you have the degree they paid for is a bit simplistic. Why would any employer consider paying for college if that rationale stood?

Well , due to what ive learned while in college , im currently doing a higher level of work with more responsibility . Ive gained a 3rd level qualification and am on the way to a higher 3rd level qualification.
Incidentally , my take home pay is the same as it was in 2008 in the same organisation which is my primary motivation to leave.
My take on it is they have been getting a higher standard of work/worker in return for paying 2k per year for my fees which in my head makes us even , but maybe thats simplistic ?

Jawgap

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Well , due to what ive learned while in college , im currently doing a higher level of work with more responsibility . Ive gained a 3rd level qualification and am on the way to a higher 3rd level qualification.
Incidentally , my take home pay is the same as it was in 2008 in the same organisation which is my primary motivation to leave.
My take on it is they have been getting a higher standard of work/worker in return for paying 2k per year for my fees which in my head makes us even , but maybe thats simplistic ?

True, but they've also paid money over to save you paying fees which in effect is a benefit-in-kind, and one you don't have to pay tax on!

They've also helped you improve your own long term prospects.

So while, in my view, you don't owe them your soul you owe them something, be it a partial refund of the fees paid, or your loyalty for the next 18/24 months.

I think the wise option here is to tread carefully - no point in putting in all that hard work to get a good qualification and then find your prospects are compromised by a neutral employer reference when you go to move on.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Jawgap wrote: »

True, but they've also paid money over to save you paying fees which in effect is a benefit-in-kind, and one you don't have to pay tax on!

They've also helped you improve your own long term prospects.

So while, in my view, you don't owe them your soul you owe them something, be it a partial refund of the fees paid, or your loyalty for the next 18/24 months.

I think the wise option here is to tread carefully - no point in putting in all that hard work to get a good qualification and then find your prospects are compromised by a neutral employer reference when you go to move on.

Sounds like good advice !
When the time comes will have a chat and see what their stance is . At the moment theyve paid for 2 years and ive paid for 1 . Maybe they'll decide to hang on to their investment , though they are generally quite short sighted

pilly

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Sounds like good advice !
When the time comes will have a chat and see what their stance is . At the moment theyve paid for 2 years and ive paid for 1 . Maybe they'll decide to hang on to their investment , though they are generally quite short sighted

How much did the 2 years cost?

Jawgap

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Sounds like good advice !
When the time comes will have a chat and see what their stance is . At the moment theyve paid for 2 years and ive paid for 1 . Maybe they'll decide to hang on to their investment , though they are generally quite short sighted

Definitely have a chat - point out their investment in you and see how they want to use it. I wouldn't engage in explicit or veiled threats to leave, but if its clear they don't have a plan that suits, then, after a reasonable period leave with a clear conscience (and hopefully with a decent reference and no debt owing!!).

The_Pretender

I think the OP is being reasonable here. It's not some slap in the face to the employer to leave; he/she is the one being slapped in the face by being encouraged through a course that was supposed to further their career progression in the Company. With there being 3.5k employees it's unlikely they couldn't move the OP to the relevant department if they really wanted to.

In the industry I'm in (finance) it's very much the norm for employers to pay for your education, however it's based on the promise of moving into a related role during and upon completion of the course.

OP I think you're taking the right attitude. You're being fair in looking to come to a mutual agreement and if necessary only leaving the Company on the best of terms. There's a reason employment law very much favours the employee - the employer is seen to have more power and resources. If the OP leaves the Company will move on. If the OP stays another 3 years they'll be setting their career back at least 3 years, possibly more due to having several years in an unrelated role before looking for something more suitable.

pilly

The_Pretender wrote: »

I think the OP is being reasonable here. It's not some slap in the face to the employer to leave; he/she is the one being slapped in the face by being encouraged through a course that was supposed to further their career progression in the Company. With there being 3.5k employees it's unlikely they couldn't move the OP to the relevant department if they really wanted to.

In the industry I'm in (finance) it's very much the norm for employers to pay for your education, however it's based on the promise of moving into a related role during and upon completion of the course.

OP I think you're taking the right attitude. You're being fair in looking to come to a mutual agreement and if necessary only leaving the Company on the best of terms. There's a reason employment law very much favours the employee - the employer is seen to have more power and resources. If the OP leaves the Company will move on. If the OP stays another 3 years they'll be setting their career back at least 3 years, possibly more due to having several years in an unrelated role before looking for something more suitable.

I think you're mixing up the OP with COYBIG, two different people.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

pilly wrote: »

How much did the 2 years cost?

4k fully refunded and I've paid 3k myself for my 3rd year and intend to do the same next yr , however I will.apply for a refund of both yr 3 and 4 if I'm still there. Chances are ill get between 40 and 70 ℅ depending. On the mood of the HR person on the day

pilly

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

4k fully refunded and I've paid 3k myself for my 3rd year and intend to do the same next yr , however I will.apply for a refund of both yr 3 and 4 if I'm still there. Chances are ill get between 40 and 70 ℅ depending. On the mood of the HR person on the day

Okay so it's not quite as much as the 12-13k previously mentioned here. And you're still on the same salary as 2008 so I think you've more justification for moving on.

KeithTS

Have you had a chat with your employer OP?

If not, it seems mad to even consider looking elsewhere before sitting down and discussing your perspective in a clear and concise way, with the understanding that whether you believe it or not, they have done you a solid by paying for you to up skill already. This is not an entitlement offered by many employers and a little appreciation or acknowledgement should be given for it.

Approach them, be humble and acknowledge the fact that they have helped you out. Ask about advancement or a lateral move to a more apt role which will better suit you and maximise their reward for investing in your education. If this is not possible due to roles not being available or due to them not seeing you as the right candidate then have the discussion about repayment if you decide to leave, this way at least you the upper hand in terms of them not meeting their obligations of providing you with more suitable work and they may be open to letting you walk away free.

If you're unable to have a grown up, professional discussion with your employer about these things perhaps they are right in not moving you into a more senior role to match your new skills.

The_Pretender

pilly wrote: »

I think you're mixing up the OP with COYBIG, two different people.

I think you're right, or rather I've mashed a bit of both of them both together with my response