Originality Above All Else

Frank O. Pinion

I've been thinking about making this thread recently. The paramount quality I look for in a film is originality. I don't care what genre it is, I just want something that doesn't seem like I've seen it before. Clichés, tropes, unoriginal dialogue are not for me, no matter how "good" the film overall is. Sequels, remakes, reboots, Star Wars, Marvel, etc. generally do nothing for me. Sure, I'll watch them, and be mildly entertained by some of them, but they're not likely to be some of my favourite films, or turn out to be the next Mulholland Dr., I've seen over 3,000 films, I want something that can't be easily compared to most of them.

The film that I watched last night that made me make this thread, was The Love Witch (2016), an amazing masterpiece by writer and director, Anna Biller.

One of the best films I've watched from 2016. Swiss Army Man (2016), The Greasy Strangler (2016), The Lobster (2015), Coherence (2013), Mr. Nobody (2009), films by Quentin Dupieux, are just some very different, original films that I loved from the past few years.

Do others place this great an importance on total originality? Maybe people can use this thread to suggest truly original films, unlike anything else they've seen.

Bacchus

Your post made me do a double take on the thread titles on the first page of this forum...

7 sequels (Trainspotting, GotG, John Wick, Fate of the Furious, Transformers, Logan, PotC), 1 90s TV show remake and a Lego Batman movie.

If it's an indicator to go by, originality doesn't have people talking as much.

Wedwood

I don't think movie originality is much better or worse than previous. Since the 1930's, every good idea has been copied or aped, often leading to the creation of 'genres'.

Perhaps the main difference these days are there are more studio 'focus groups' to tick the boxes as to what they think the audience wants.

Sad Professor

I’m not sure mainstream audiences want originality, now or ever. Even in the ‘30s and 40s a lot of films would have been based on well known books or plays or drawn influence from them. So even if they were original films they probably weren’t original stories. Audiences would have been familiar with them.

That said, originality can come in many forms. There’s no reason why a reboot or remake can’t be done in an original way.

WinnyThePoo

I like all the films in your list Frank. Haven't seen the greasy strangler and the love witch so I will get on those soon as possible.

I watched Timecrimes recently . I don't know if its original or not , but I really enjoyed it.

johnny_ultimate

There is no 'above all else' for me when it comes to film. While I would rarely begrudge or dismiss originality, the same would be true for material that does something exceptionally well within existing frames or ideas. Like Hirokazu Kore-eda is one of my favourite contemporary directors, but in many ways his films are undeniably derivative of classic Japanese cinema. I'd be hard pressed to call them original in form. And yet his films rarely fail to get under my skin, and offer some of the most thoughtful, compassionate and beautifully measured pieces of work around. From a slightly different angle, you have wonderful directors like Wes Anderson or Hang Song-soo whose work in becomes progressively less radical & new with each iteration, but who continue to hone and evolve their style and approach within that long-established framework to impressive effect.

I've certainly been guilty in the past of letting films away with murder just because they're 'different' too. Again, I welcome somebody being able to do something very different in a medium where an awful lot of things have been attempted over the years. But I don't think they should get a free pass just for doing that. Swiss Army Man is certainly unlike anything else I've seen and certainly nails a few landings, but it's also a bloody mess in many respects and doesn't come close to entirely working. Ditto Coherence, which I found a bland realisation of a cool idea and without the formal ingenuity you see in a Shane Carruth film, for example. Whereas La La Land I can walk out of thinking it's obviously and unapolgetically derivative of The Umbrellas of Cherbourg and several others and not really give a toss because it's so comfortable and confident within its own skin. And as Sad Professor noted, there are undoubtedly degrees of originality. Moonlight may not be as 'in-your-face' bold and new as, say, Lemonade, but it slowly but surely leaves its mark on what is on the surface reasonably familiar material.

Filmmakers should always stretch themselves however they can - endeavour to say something new and fresh and insightful, whether that's through the narrative or cinematic language they use to communicate it with. Most viewers I reckon will have a naturally positive and sympathetic response to material that tries that, and more so for those that achieve it. There's a real thrill to watch something that genuinely feels completely new - the sort of response I had on first encountering Under the Skin, Upstream Colour, It's Such a Beautiful Day, Goodbye to Language... Hollywood cinema is, for the most part, farcically unambitious and deserves much scorn. But great filmmaking communicates itself in many forms, and there can often be a great thrill in a broadly familiar tale told in an exceptionally good way.

buried

Loved 'The Lobster'. While I was watching it I kept thinking the dialogue interaction between the characters probably won't be far off how people will speak to each other after another 20-30 years of social media/social electronic saturation, so for me it was a very original horror film

Disposable1

There's already a thread like this.

Frank O. Pinion

Sad Professor wrote: »

That said, originality can come in many forms. There’s no reason why a reboot or remake can’t be done in an original way.

They can be done in original ways, tone, character changes, etc., but if I've seen the original I know the outcome and general ending, so I never get excited about reboots or remakes.

WinnyThePoo wrote:

I like all the films in your list Frank. Haven't seen the greasy strangler and the love witch so I will get on those soon as possible.

The Greasy Strangler is a disgusting and ugly film, so not for everyone, but I really liked it and found it quite funny. Most importantly, it was original.

johnny_ultimate wrote:

There is no 'above all else' for me when it comes to film. While I would rarely begrudge or dismiss originality, the same would be true for material that does something exceptionally well within existing frames or ideas.

Of course, a good film is a good film. All things being equal, though, an original film unlike anything else I've ever seen that I rank 7/10, I would appreciate and usually enjoy more than say, a crime drama, that I would also rank 7/10. Originality isn't everything, but it is very important for me.

johnny_ultimate wrote:

From a slightly different angle, you have wonderful directors like Wes Anderson or Hang Song-soo whose work in becomes progressively less radical & new with each iteration, but who continue to hone and evolve their style and approach within that long-established framework to impressive effect.

With writer/directors that I love, I'm okay with their work being similar to their own stuff, as generally their stuff is so different and original than others' stuff. Like David Lynch, the Coen brothers, or Woody Allen. In the past year, I've watched Allen's entire filmography...twice.

johnny_ultimate wrote:

I've certainly been guilty in the past of letting films away with murder just because they're 'different' too. Again, I welcome somebody being able to do something very different in a medium where an awful lot of things have been attempted over the years. But I don't think they should get a free pass just for doing that.

An extremely original film, can certainly be total crap too, or even just average.

buried wrote:

Loved 'The Lobster'. While I was watching it I kept thinking the dialogue interaction between the characters probably won't be far off how people will speak to each other after another 20-30 years of social media/social electronic saturation

I had the same thought too. I love when I find a very original film by a writer/director, and I haven't seen any of their work before. The Lobster made me check out Yorgos Lanthimos' Dogtooth, another original film. I look forward to The Killing of a Sacred Deer (2017), which will also star Colin Farrell.

Sad Professor

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

I had the same thought too. I love when I find a very original film by a writer/director, and I haven't seen any of their work before. The Lobster made me check out Yorgos Lanthimos' Dogtooth, another original film. I look forward to The Killing of a Sacred Deer (2017), which will also star Colin Farrell.

Check out Lucile Hadzihalilovic (Innocence, Evolution) if you haven’t. Not comic like Lanthimos but a similar strange and dystopian vibe. For the weird and the satirical respectively, see Holy Motors and Force Majeure. And if you liked The Love Witch I’d sad you’d love Peter Strickland (The Berberian Sound Studio, The Duke of Burgundy).

It’s not a well liked movie but i think Terry Gilliam’s Tideland is very weird and original, even for Gilliam.

TerrorFirmer

I liked The Greasy Strangler but I'm surprised to see it in anyone's list of 2016's best movies. I'd love to see a mainstream audience sitting through that one.

Noise Annoys

I do value originality in films, but it's not the most important thing for me. Having said that, before I read this thread, I had already booked tickets in the Dublin film festival to see The Love Witch. What little I know about it makes me think of Peter Strickland (Duke of Burgundy, Berberian Sound Studio).

Frank O. Pinion

Sad Professor wrote: »

And if you liked The Love Witch I’d say you’d love Peter Strickland (The Berberian Sound Studio, The Duke of Burgundy).

Thanks for the other suggestions. I actually meant to mention The Duke of Burgundy, in my opening post, as one of the best film of recent years. I really liked Berberian Sound Studio too, but I think The Duke of Burgundy is a masterpiece, a near perfect film.

TerrorFirmer wrote:

I liked The Greasy Strangler but I'm surprised to see it in anyone's list of 2016's best movies. I'd love to see a mainstream audience sitting through that one.

It probably won't by in my Top 10 for 2016, but Top 20 or so. I'm not saying it's an intellectual work of art, just a very funny, original film that I enjoyed way more than the usual Hollywood stuff. The phrases, "HOOTIE TOOTIE DISCO CUTIE", and "bullsh*t artist* are still stuck in my head.