Radiator thermostats and zonal thermostats-not working properly!

Chimichangas

Hi,
I have a new house with radiators with thermostat radiator valves on them, and then an upstairs and downstairs zonal thermostats.
I dont think theyre working properly, the zonal and radiator thermostats.
I could set them all at 2 on the rads, and push up the zonal thermostats to the max, 30, and some come on, most dont.
Some were hot top and bottom, others were hot only at the very top, or maybe just a little warm.
Some will only come on from 3, and you can hear the water flowing, others have to be 4 or 5 before getting warm or properly hot, especially the bathroom,toilet ones...

There is also a bit of leakage from one or two rads, before the heating came on on one, and after it came on on the other. Not a whole lot of water but some.

Is there anything that would explain why the thermos and radiator thermos are not working in sync, as Id expect them to. Apart from the water leaking, does this not sound that they are all not working properly?


And besides the water leaking which i just noticed, the plumber says the rads and thermostats are working normally...though I did look at how theyre working a bit more since talking to him last.

UPDATE:
would I be right to say that the TRVs regulate themselves according to the setting, and the zonal thermostats regulate the overall heating system for downstairs and upstairs?
But I still think some of these rads dont come on at less than 3? I dont think the rooms are that warm though that they shouldnt come on. And one radiator started to leak within about 10 minutes when set to 1 without the heating being on? A few of the others have varying small volumes/drops of water inside the caps at the other end of the radiator from the TRVs

Wearb

When you say zone thermostats, do you mean room stats? Should be no rad stat in area subject to control by zone stat, or leave any rad stat in such an area fully open.

Chimichangas

Wearb wrote: »

When you say zone thermostats, do you mean room stats? Should be no rad stat in area subject to control by zone stat, or leave any rad stat in such an area fully open.

All the radiators have those Thermostatic Radiator Valves,with values 1 to 5. Then there are 2 thermostats upstairs and downstairs. I was told that the 2 zonal thermostats control the heating system upstairs and downstairs, and the radiators control themselves on how much heat they output depending on the TRV value.

I wouldnt mind getting info on how best to work the TRV and zonal thermostats. But overall I dont think the system is working properly, but would like confirmation or explanation if anyone has one.
Or just advice would be good!

OK I just looked up more info there on TRVs and will update my original post a little to reflect it: would I be right to say that the TRVs regulate themselves according to the setting, and the zonal thermostats regulate the overall heating system for downstairs and upstairs?
But I still think some of these rads dont come on at less than 3? I dont think the rooms are that warm though. And one radiator started to leak within about 10 minutes when set to 1 without the heating being on?

Wearb

When you say zone thermostats, do you mean room stats? Should be no rad stat in area subject to control by zone stat, or leave any rad stat in such an area fully open.

It would help if you answered my question and confirmed my last sentence.

Pete67

Chimichangas wrote: »

All the radiators have those Thermostatic Radiator Valves,with values 1 to 5. Then there are 2 thermostats upstairs and downstairs. I was told that the 2 zonal thermostats control the heating system upstairs and downstairs, and the radiators control themselves on how much heat they output depending on the TRV value.

I wouldnt mind getting info on how best to work the TRV and zonal thermostats. But overall I dont think the system is working properly, but would like confirmation or explanation if anyone has one.
Or just advice would be good!

OK I just looked up more info there on TRVs and will update my original post a little to reflect it: would I be right to say that the TRVs regulate themselves according to the setting, and the zonal thermostats regulate the overall heating system for downstairs and upstairs?
But I still think some of these rads dont come on at less than 3? I dont think the rooms are that warm though. And one radiator started to leak within about 10 minutes when set to 1 without the heating being on?

There should not be any leaks from the radiator valves, so that needs to be fixed before going much further. The TRVs sense room temperature, and control flow through the radiator based on two things - the setting on the scale (the TRV value) and the actual temperature of the room. So you could have two radiators in different rooms, both set at '3' and one radiator could be piping hot and the other cold, depending on the temperature of each room. This is normal and just how TRV's operate.

If you have two wall mounted thermostats, these most likely control a pair of motorised valves to allow heating of each zone at different times if required (if a suitable 2 or 3 channel controller (timeswitch) is fitted). As has already been said, the radiators in the rooms with wall stats should not have TRVs fitted. If they are fitted set them at 5 (or whatever the maximum value is) and leave them that way. Even better, just remove the TRV head from those two valves and they will stay fully open. Then for those two rooms only you can control the temperature of the rooms by adjusting the wall thermostats.

For the other rooms, adjust the TRVs to a comfortable level and forget about them for a few days. I would suggest setting them at 4 for living areas and 3 for bedrooms. 4 or 5 for bathrooms. Then adjust the settings in small amounts if required if any individual room is too hot or too cold.

Remember the TRV does not control the temperature of the radiator directly, it attempts to control the temperature of the room, so the actual radiator temperature (and hence heat output) will vary continuously in response to changes in room temperature.

One final thing to be aware of, if the room with the wall thermostat is warm enough to satisfy the wall stat, then no other room on that zone can be heated as the entire zone is switched off. This can be a problem for example when the main downstairs zone thermostat is fitting in the living room, and a stove or open fire is also heating the room to the point that the radiator is not required.

Hope this helps!

Chimichangas

Wearb wrote: »

When you say zone thermostats, do you mean room stats? Should be no rad stat in area subject to control by zone stat, or leave any rad stat in such an area fully open.

It would help if you answered my question and confirmed my last sentence.

Thanks I did try to give you clarification that I thought would answer your question and give you the info you needed, but let me be clear again: all the rads have TRVs, and, the thermostats are in a living and bedroom, and supposed to control the upstairs and downstairs zones, to the best of my understanding anyway!
So imo they are zonal, and/but maybe they are actually room thermostats too??

Chimichangas

Pete67 wrote: »

There should not be any leaks from the radiator valves, so that needs to be fixed before going much further. The TRVs sense room temperature, and control flow through the radiator based on two things - the setting on the scale (the TRV value) and the actual temperature of the room. So you could have two radiators in different rooms, both set at '3' and one radiator could be piping hot and the other cold, depending on the temperature of each room. This is normal and just how TRV's operate.

If you have two wall mounted thermostats, these most likely control a pair of motorised valves to allow heating of each zone at different times if required (if a suitable 2 or 3 channel controller (timeswitch) is fitted). As has already been said, the radiators in the rooms with wall stats should not have TRVs fitted. If they are fitted set them at 5 (or whatever the maximum value is) and leave them that way. Even better, just remove the TRV head from those two valves and they will stay fully open. Then for those two rooms only you can control the temperature of the rooms by adjusting the wall thermostats.

For the other rooms, adjust the TRVs to a comfortable level and forget about them for a few days. I would suggest setting them at 4 for living areas and 3 for bedrooms. 4 or 5 for bathrooms. Then adjust the settings in small amounts if required if any individual room is too hot or too cold.

Remember the TRV does not control the temperature of the radiator directly, it attempts to control the temperature of the room, so the actual radiator temperature (and hence heat output) will vary continuously in response to changes in room temperature.

One final thing to be aware of, if the room with the wall thermostat is warm enough to satisfy the wall stat, then no other room on that zone can be heated as the entire zone is switched off. This can be a problem for example when the main downstairs zone thermostat is fitting in the living room, and a stove or open fire is also heating the room to the point that the radiator is not required.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Pete67, it does help alright! Have to get the leaks done alright, just hope they are sorted then! One of them was supposed to be but it was still leaking ever so slightly to have rusted a little. Think its dry now though. The little caps help as they catch the water!
Thanks for explaining further the TRVs, not sure mine do fully comply with your explanation but it does help!

Pete67

Chimichangas wrote: »

all the rads have TRVs, and, the thermostats are in a living and bedroom, and supposed to control the upstairs and downstairs zones, to the best of my understanding anyway!
So imo they are zonal, and/but maybe they are actually room thermostats too??

They are room thermostats as they can only sense the temperature in the room they are installed in, however they switch on /off the heating in the entire zone. They should be installed in a location that is representative of the entire zone but this is not always the case. Although the heating for the zone may be switched on by the zonal (or room depending on what you call it) thermostat, the radiators in the other rooms on that zone may or may not be hot depending on the TRV setting and the individual temps in those rooms.

Wearb

Chimichangas wrote: »

Thanks I did try to give you clarification that I thought would answer your question and give you the info you needed, but let me be clear again: all the rads have TRVs, and, the thermostats are in a living and bedroom, and supposed to control the upstairs and downstairs zones, to the best of my understanding anyway!
So imo they are zonal, and/but maybe they are actually room thermostats too??

Didn't see where you confirmed that trv in room stat area was fully open.

Anyway Pete has covered what I was going to do in a "one step at a time" way.