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Cost of new Chidren's Hospital

  • 04-02-2017 6:49pm
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Last March, according to the IT, Gov predicted that the cost of the Hospital might rise to €650 m.
    The Government previously indicated that the new national children’s hospital, which is planned for the campus of St James’s Hospital in Dublin, could cost about €650 million. It is understood this figure does not include the cost of equipping the building.

    They have now awarded the contract for an eye-watering figure of €1 billion.

    Why do they allow this type of inflation?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,211 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    It's not clear if the two numbers are directly comparable, as we don't know how they treat future inflation - it will take several years to build and construction inflation is accelerating.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Victor wrote: »
    It's not clear if the two numbers are directly comparable, as we don't know how they treat future inflation - it will take several years to build and construction inflation is accelerating.

    True but in 9 months, a 50% increase?


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,211 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    The €650m may have been base cost only, with a hidden number set aside for inflation.

    The €1,000m may be base cost plus inflation from March 2016 to opening of hospital.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Victor wrote: »
    The €650m may have been base cost only, with a hidden number set aside for inflation.

    The €1,000m may be base cost plus inflation from March 2016 to opening of hospital.

    The €1bn is the contract price the Bam got the job on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭ stampydmonkey


    The €1bn is the contract price the Bam got the job on.

    I thought the 650m was construction only but 1 billion was construction and hospital equipment etc. Hospital equipment about €200 million.

    Edit. The 1 billion doesn't include hospital equipment apparently.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f


    The €1bn is the contract price the Bam got the job on.

    It should be noted that that figure does not include the cost of the IT systems and the medical equipment to fit out the hospital.

    It also doesn't include the cost of the work which has already been done on the metronorth project at the Mater Hospital, which was largely predicated on the Children's Hospital being built there.

    I don't, and didn't, think that the Mater was a good site, and I think we can have no doubt that it would have been a political decision (with the local lad, Bertie Ahern, pushing for it). Typical, shoddy, parish-pump politics, which we've seen too much of in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,921 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw


    The first building in the world to be over 1km tall will cost around the same. Madness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭ Damien360


    The problem with that figure is it is not fixed. At a whim it could be doubled. We have seen that many times in the past.

    Can we not do what happened to Sisk in Poland. Sisk win the contract for a price and did the Irish thing and looked for more money to which the Polish told them to go and jump. The price was the price. That story is not that straightforward but we have to finally start getting our infrastructure for the price quoted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,211 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    Damien360 wrote: »
    Can we not do what happened to Sisk in Poland. Sisk win the contract for a price and did the Irish thing and looked for more money to which the Polish told them to go and jump. The price was the price. That story is not that straightforward but we have to finally start getting our infrastructure for the price quoted.

    Then don't necessarily blame the contractor, blame the client and design team for under-designing the building.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ Spanish Eyes


    I say the contract should cover everything. If not, the contract was not watertight and is going to overrun as it usually does.

    A bonus of a percentage of the price should be paid back to the builder for building on time and on budget.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭ markpb


    I say the contract should cover everything. If not, the contract was not watertight and is going to overrun as it usually does.

    That's a very naive attitude. There are countess valid reasons why a project might go over budget. As Victor said already, a lot of responsibility rests on the design team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Bray Head


    I don't, and didn't, think that the Mater was a good site, and I think we can have no doubt that it would have been a political decision (with the local lad, Bertie Ahern, pushing for it). Typical, shoddy, parish-pump politics, which we've seen too much of in Ireland.

    That said, if it had gone ahead it would have been able to take advantage of a lot of spare capacity in the construction industry.

    Not so much anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,348 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu


    Buttonftw wrote: »
    The first building in the world to be over 1km tall will cost around the same. Madness.

    assuming that's in the middle east, it'll be built be workers who are effectively slaves. not a great comparison.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭ newacc2015


    4 companies tendered for it and BAM was the cheapest. The fact is most construction companies are flat out building offices that are letting for €650 sq m per year in Dublin. They have plenty of work on. This should have been built years ago when the money was sitting there and construction was cheap.

    The Apple tax money should be saved for when there is a recession, so the Government can build cheaper than now and prime pump the economy


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    And now we can't afford it .
    The head of the Health Service Executive (HSE) has said it cannot afford to build the €1 billion new national children’s hospital.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-cannot-afford-to-build-national-children-s-hospital-says-chief-1.2967260



    F**K SAKE !!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,348 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu



    that's the HSE rattling the poor box. If it's built the money will come from govt capital funding, not the HSE budget.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    loyatemu wrote: »
    that's the HSE rattling the poor box. If it's built the money will come from govt capital funding, not the HSE budget.

    They are claiming they can't afford to maintain it. No point building it and it falling into ruin. But I do agree its mainly the hse pleading an béal bocht


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,146 ✭✭✭ prunudo


    Was just thinking about the escalating costs on this. If it was any other infrastructure project the government would have pulled the plug and called for a redesign and alternative sites/options. Why are they so adamant about building it in St.James at any costs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭ newacc2015


    jvan wrote: »
    Was just thinking about the escalating costs on this. If it was any other infrastructure project the government would have pulled the plug and called for a redesign and alternative sites/options. Why are they so adamant about building it in St.James at any costs.

    I think it is fact the site from pulled from the Mater, now James. Redesign is expensive and not desired.

    James is a large decent hospital. People from outside of Dublin are happy with the Connolly as it's on the motorway. But anyone in Dublin knows it is not a great hospital. It is relatively small for a Dublin hospital. Dubliners take pride in decent healthcare. I know it sounds harsh, but I genuinely think a sizeable minority outside of Dublin would rather die of poor treatment at the local hospital then travel a little longer to an excellent hospital to receive superior healthcare.

    James does a lot of the lab testing for Dublin. It has a proper blood bank, good public transport. Where as Connolly is a nightmare for even Dubs to get to (the M50 at Blanch is a carpark day and night).


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭ markpb


    jvan wrote:
    Why are they so adamant about building it in St.James at any costs.

    No matter where they decide to build it, someone will be unhappy. The professionals tasked with suggesting locations said that Connolly is medically unsuitable. It's too small, the staff don't experience enough too make them suitable for a national hospital and a lot of the ancillary services are in James already.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Bray Head


    People in a high-income country demand high-quality public services and this does not come cheap.

    The major issue is that during the 2008-2010 downturn capital spend was cut drastically so that social spending could be maintained. Ireland's public capital spend is very low despite a population that is both growing and ageing very rapidly.

    These priorities need to be re-assessed now that the economy is growing again, and growing fast.

    Personally I would put in place structures so that health and transport infrastructure are shielded from the short-term whims of politicians, a bit like grid infrastructure is.


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