Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Motor tax question

  • 04-02-2017 12:57PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭


    A friend of mine bought a car end of august last year for a new job that was about an hours drive from home, changed log book into his name but in the meantime his work situation changed and he was going to be kept on in his old job..( they won a new contract) .However he never taxed the car and now if he taxes it he will have to pay arrears to last august. I told him to just register the car in his wife's name so she can tax it then from the 1st of this month..I know it'll add another owner to the car but its not a very new car to begin with. He wouldn't be breaking the law if he done this..Would he? Thanks in advance.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    Luckydog69 wrote: »
    A friend of mine bought a car end of august last year for a new job that was about an hours drive from home, changed log book into his name but in the meantime his work situation changed and he was going to be kept on in his old job..( they won a new contract) .However he never taxed the car and now if he taxes it he will have to pay arrears to last august. I told him to just register the car in his wife's name so she can tax it then from the 1st of this month..I know it'll add another owner to the car but its not a very new car to begin with. He wouldn't be breaking the law if he done this..Would he? Thanks in advance.

    Nope, no laws being broken. I've done it myself.

    Only a matter of time before that loophole is closed though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,316 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    There isn't a practical way to close it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    There isn't a practical way to close it.

    It involves politicians and money, they'll find a way somehow


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭.G.


    Can you not declare it off the road from the period from August to end of January?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,253 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    There isn't a practical way to close it.

    Yes there is...Look at the UK. Continuous taxation....The government are looking closely at it.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,253 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    superg wrote: »
    Can you not declare it off the road from the period from August to end of January?

    No! You have 21 days from date of sale to declare it off the road. This includes the date of sale as day 1.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,316 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Yes there is...Look at the UK. Continuous taxation....The government are looking closely at it.

    So you're saying if someone buys a car in the uk that hasn't been SORNd that the new owner is liable for the previous owners arrears?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭grogi


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    There isn't a practical way to close it.

    There is no loophole anymore, the previous owner still owes that tax. There is no enforcement. But that is fixable too - the moment you want to register a new car, the arrears could be transferred... Or the Revenue could actively chase the evaders


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭honda boi


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    So you're saying if someone buys a car in the uk that hasn't been SORNd that the new owner is liable for the previous owners arrears?

    If they were to do it I'd say they,d put the arrears on the current owner?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,253 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    So you're saying if someone buys a car in the uk that hasn't been SORNd that the new owner is liable for the previous owners arrears?

    I never said that!
    The new owner is never liable for tax owed by someone else. They pay from month of purchase.

    UK has continuous taxation of the vehicle. A new owner can't drive off without taxing it first.
    The Irish gov are looking to see if they can implement it.
    Personally, I hope they do. This joke of having arrears and just transferring ownership to evade them is stupid


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,316 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Uk also has continuous SORN and insurance which we don't have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,041 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    grogi wrote: »
    There is no loophole anymore, the previous owner still owes that tax. There is no enforcement.

    That's actually not true.
    Person who lets the tax lapse, and doesn't tax it, is not committing any offence.
    There is no law in Ireland, stipulating that tax on vehicle should be paid (not unless it's used on public places).
    So by not taxing a car, you are not committing any offence provided car is not used in public place.
    If it's not taxed for a year, that doesn't mean you owe that year in arrears. You don't.

    You only become liable for arrears, when you go to tax the car.
    But if instead of taxing you decide to scrap the car, sell it or do whatever else with it, then you don't owe anything and no enforcement could possibly ask you to pay the arrears.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭Isambard


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    So you're saying if someone buys a car in the uk that hasn't been SORNd that the new owner is liable for the previous owners arrears?

    no I think the old owner is responsible in the UK and will likely get a fine in the post


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭grogi


    CiniO wrote: »
    That's actually not true.

    Thanks, I see the difference now. So that's what needs to change - no arrears, but 'continuous taxation' unless the vehicle is declared of the road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,316 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Just because another country does things a certain way doesn't mean we need to copy them. Uk tax is far less than ours, plus they have enforcement and ANPR that works.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Not alone that UK tax is cheaper the owner of the car gets an instant refund of any tax remaining when the car is sold.
    I can't see the tax authorities being too keen on handing back a grand or more if the owner sold a high tax vehicle.
    They also don't refund unused tax here if you take a car off the road (SORN) in the UK they do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭grogi


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Just because another country does things a certain way doesn't mean we need to copy them. Uk tax is far less than ours, plus they have enforcement and ANPR that works.

    Of course not.

    But if a system here is broken, one can reasonably easy evade the tax while honest people can't get refunds - it needs to be changed.

    I know it is an Irishman speaking through you, but the UK really have it the right way this time. Well, as long as motortax is concerned; I believe it should be abolished completely in favour of increased fuel levy...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,758 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Motor tax should be scrapped, so we can forget about all this nonsense and we no longer need an army of civil servants to work on it. Just add it to the excise duty on fuel and compliance will automatically be 100% :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,202 ✭✭✭blackbox


    unkel wrote: »
    Motor tax should be scrapped, so we can forget about all this nonsense and we no longer need an army of civil servants to work on it. Just add it to the excise duty on fuel and compliance will automatically be 100% :)

    A significant improvement but not quite 100%. Still some washed diesel and stretched petrol.


    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭grogi


    blackbox wrote: »
    A significant improvement but not quite 100%. Still some washed diesel and stretched petrol.

    With newish cars and complex engines it is above stupid to buy fuel at dodgy places. The practice will die out together with the cars that were using washed fuel.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,228 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    KC161 wrote: »
    Nope, no laws being broken. I've done it myself.

    Only a matter of time before that loophole is closed though.

    For about the 20th time, it's not a "loophole". It's the the way that Motor Tax has worked in Ireland since it's inception.
    It's the Law.
    Why is it now "only a matter of time before this 'loophole' is closed" when it's been this way for over a Century ?

    The 1st Motor Tax offices were created in 1903 according to many archives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,228 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    unkel wrote: »
    Motor tax should be scrapped, so we can forget about all this nonsense and we no longer need an army of civil servants to work on it. Just add it to the excise duty on fuel and compliance will automatically be 100% :)

    Apart from those who live within close enough proximity to N. Ireland. If the cost of fuel here is even slightly more than UK prices they will fill up in the North. If it is significantly higher that radius increases :).
    Apart from that the "Army" of Civil Servants would simply be redeployed. There would definitely be Zero wage saving there....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭grogi


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »
    Apart from those who live within close enough proximity to N. Ireland. If the cost of fuel here is even slightly more than UK prices they will fill up in the North. If it is significantly higher that radius increases :).
    Apart from that the "Army" of Civil Servants would simply be redeployed. There would definitely be Zero wage saving there....

    Sure, that is the risk. But people value their time as well... I don't have enough free time to waste half an hour a week to drive to NI...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,228 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    ....depends how much it's worth to you. Or anybody else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭JohnBoy26


    grogi wrote: »
    Of course not.

    But if a system here is broken, one can reasonably easy evade the tax while honest people can't get refunds - it needs to be changed.

    I know it is an Irishman speaking through you, but the UK really have it the right way this time. Well, as long as motortax is concerned; I believe it should be abolished completely in favour of increased fuel levy...

    There is nothing wrong with the system. It's in the enforcement is where things need to improve.

    The uk isn't as perfect as you might think either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭grogi


    JohnBoy26 wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong with the system. It's in the enforcement is where things need to improve.

    The uk isn't as perfect as you might think either.

    It is tax... It by definition is imperfect... ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,758 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »
    Apart from those who live within close enough proximity to N. Ireland. If the cost of fuel here is even slightly more than UK prices they will fill up in the North.

    Of course. That's a well used argument but only a tiny percentage of total Irish fuel sales (and thus taxes / excise duties) will actually go to the UK (NI) if our fuels become a lot more expensive than they are across the border.

    And I'm the first to say fair play to the people who do cross border shopping in their benefit :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,253 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    unkel wrote: »
    Motor tax should be scrapped, so we can forget about all this nonsense and we no longer need an army of civil servants to work on it. Just add it to the excise duty on fuel and compliance will automatically be 100% :)

    Its public servants..Not civil :)
    87% of motor tax is done online and automated.
    What we need is continuous taxation and a verification of insurance details when taxing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,316 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Remember when the SORD came in here? The blurb was that anyone that declared their car off the road and then drove it would face massive penalties vs just driving untaxed. This never happened.
    That's the whole point. The enforcement is minimal. Like the €1000 fine for holding a mobile phone. Empty threat.
    There would be nothing stopping someone doing a SORD and cancelling insurance and then driving. As long as they don't get caught.
    The continuous tax/insurance wouldn't stop those who routinely drive without tax/insurance/licence etc.

    These are the people that need to be targeted, not those who forget to do anSORD and then have to do 2 changes of ownership to avoid back tax.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭grogi


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »
    For about the 20th time, it's not a "loophole". It's the the way that Motor Tax has worked in Ireland since it's inception.
    It's the Law.
    Why is it now "only a matter of time before this 'loophole' is closed" when it's been this way for over a Century ?

    The 1st Motor Tax offices were created in 1903 according to many archives.

    Don't you think that over the century things have changed?

    9490_star-gordon-bennett-racer.jpg

    0.jpg

    Different cars, different usage, different problems... Simple fact that something worked in the past does not mean it is up to the task today....


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement