Vulture funds offer to slash your mortgage by 40pc

conormc1984

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/vulture-funds-offer-to-slash-your-mortgage-by-40pc-35419888.html

Samuel T. Cogley

Holy fonts Batman.

There is a suggestion that the reason Tanager is doing this is because they don't have proper security over the loans. It would be worth speaking to a solicitor and investigating the matter to see if one has any additional leverage.

Barely Hedged

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Holy fonts Batman.

There is a suggestion that the reason Tanager is doing this is because they don't have proper security over the loans. It would be worth speaking to a solicitor and investigating the matter to see if one has any additional leverage.

Or maybe they're just freeing up their capital to invest in higher earning assets.

It is their business purpose

Samuel T. Cogley

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Or maybe they're just freeing up their capital to invest in higher earning assets.

It is their business purpose

Possibly, but that's not what the legal proceedings seem to indicate.

Discussion currently locked in LD, hopefully reopened next week.

listermint

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Or maybe they're just freeing up their capital to invest in higher earning assets.

It is their business purpose

Specifically which higher earning assets.?

Slim investment pickings presently. Unless of course trump's lunacy with Dodd Frank comes to pass and sure then wall Street will be back selling all sorts of bogey investments

Barely Hedged

listermint wrote: »

Specifically which higher earning assets.?

Slim investment pickings presently. Unless of course trump's lunacy with Dodd Frank comes to pass and sure then wall Street will be back selling all sorts of bogey investments

Do you consider Irish property to be the highest and potentially highest yielding asset in the world over the next three years?

Barely Hedged

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Possibly, but that's not what the legal proceedings seem to indicate.

Discussion currently locked in LD, hopefully reopened next week.

I'd say it's 99% for the reason I state.

They're a high yielding fund. Yield achieved to date in Irish property. Release their capital and move onto the next high yielding asset. Its their business after all

Samuel T. Cogley

Barely Hedged wrote: »

I'd say it's 99% for the reason I state.

They're a high yielding fund. Yield achieved to date in Irish property. Release their capital and move onto the next high yielding asset. Its their business after all

Well, we'll wait and see. Not a big believer in coincidences.

Barely Hedged

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Well, we'll wait and see. Not a big believer in coincidences.

I've read it and Soros funds attempts.

Hail Mary punts if nothing. Never bet on a hail Mary

Samuel T. Cogley

Barely Hedged wrote: »

I've read it and Soros funds attempts.

Hail Mary punts if nothing. Never bet on a hail Mary

Not really betting but cheers.

newacc2015

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Or maybe they're just freeing up their capital to invest in higher earning assets.

It is their business purpose

Nah, they have brought these mortgages for cents on the euro and they are profitable. There is also the fact they are structured in a very 'tax efficient' manner. It is well known that BOSI made a mess of their contracts and some are unenforceable.

Tanger have literally just brought this loan book. There is no reason why they changed their business stragety ad hoc.

Barely Hedged

newacc2015 wrote: »

Nah, they have brought these mortgages for cents on the euro and they are profitable. There is also the fact they are structured in a very 'tax efficient' manner. It is well known that BOSI made a mess of their contracts and some are unenforceable.

Tanger have literally just brought this loan book. There is no reason why they changed their business stragety ad hoc.

They bought them at a 50% haircut, hardly a few cents in the Euro.

Tax efficient loophole has been closed.

They transferred thousands, yet made a mess of title deeds on some. I'd say that news made its way to the board level of Apollo?

They bought them mid 2013. That's 3.5 years ago. Hardly literally just buying them. That time frame is more appropriate to a distressed debt fund cashing out and moving on.

Take it away Owen Callaghan who's job it is to study these funds and says more will follow, because guess what, it's their business and they've done it time and time again and will do in the future

http://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/more-vulture-funds-likely-to-offer-writeoffs-to-families-35422811.html

newacc2015

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Tax efficient loophole has been closed.

Very questionable. The department of finance is expecting a mere €40m from the tens of billions of assets owned by vulture funds from the 'closure' of these loopholes. Some of these companies are based in the Netherlands were with some creative account and finance billions of euro in profit can become thousands of euro of profit.

Barely Hedged wrote: »

They transferred thousands, yet made a mess of title deeds on some. I'd say that news made its way to the board level of Apollo?

It is genuinely hard to keep track of the issues on BOSI mortgages. Between the bank issuing mortgages, when it wasn't a bank anymore. When it was supposed to be issuing mortgages under seal and it didn't. There is a new case recently where someone is challenging whether a vulture fund is the owner of their mortgage and vulture fund can't prove it without compromising its finances.

They bought them mid 2013. That's 3.5 years ago. Hardly literally just buying them. That time frame is more appropriate to a distressed debt fund cashing out and moving on.

[/QUOTE]

Vulture funds are either short term or long term. Short term being they buy a loan book from a bank of distressed mortgages which arent heavily in arrears. They pretty much go to the courts immediately and start repoing the loan book as quickly as possible to make a quick buck.

Or they go for the long haul and keep the mortgages as a source of income. In 2013, when they brought these mortgages. The cost of finance would have been significantly more expensive now. I imagine most of this loan book is profitable.

I just don't see why Tanager is content with making less than 3% pa with their BOSI loan book. They haven't tried to make a quick buck or gone for long haul. I say they realised it is so difficult to repo mortgages and that there is issues with a lot of their mortgages

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-couple-vulture-fund-house-3009845-Oct2016/

Barely Hedged

newacc2015 wrote: »

Very questionable. The department of finance is expecting a mere €40m from the tens of billions of assets owned by vulture funds from the 'closure' of these loopholes. Some of these companies are based in the Netherlands were with some creative account and finance billions of euro in profit can become thousands of euro of profit.



It is genuinely hard to keep track of the issues on BOSI mortgages. Between the bank issuing mortgages, when it wasn't a bank anymore. When it was supposed to be issuing mortgages under seal and it didn't. There is a new case recently where someone is challenging whether a vulture fund is the owner of their mortgage and vulture fund can't prove it without compromising its finances.

They bought them mid 2013. That's 3.5 years ago. Hardly literally just buying them. That time frame is more appropriate to a distressed debt fund cashing out and moving on.



Vulture funds are either short term or long term. Short term being they buy a loan book from a bank of distressed mortgages which arent heavily in arrears. They pretty much go to the courts immediately and start repoing the loan book as quickly as possible to make a quick buck.

Or they go for the long haul and keep the mortgages as a source of income. In 2013, when they brought these mortgages. The cost of finance would have been significantly more expensive now. I imagine most of this loan book is profitable.

I just don't see why Tanager is content with making less than 3% pa with their BOSI loan book. They haven't tried to make a quick buck or gone for long haul. I say they realised it is so difficult to repo mortgages and that there is issues with a lot of their mortgages

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-couple-vulture-fund-house-3009845-Oct2016/

Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. It's full of contradictory statements and vague commentary on the previous state of a banks mortgage book

newacc2015

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. It's full of contradictory statements and vague commentary on the previous state of a banks mortgage book

What part makes no sense? The fact the 'closing' of the tax loopholes is only to raise a tiny amount of money which seems to suggest there is still huge amounts of tax avoidance even with it 'closed'.

Vulture funds owns tens of billions of property and mortgages, yet are only going to pay €50m per year in tax.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/laffoy-comments-may-affect-bosi-distressed-mortgages-1.2157618

If BOSI messed up on their mortgage documents, you can't repossess the houses. Vulture funds have brought assets, that they might not be able to enforce. How is that vague?

Barely Hedged

newacc2015 wrote: »

What part makes no sense? The fact the 'closing' of the tax loopholes is only to raise a tiny amount of money which seems to suggest there is still huge amounts of tax avoidance even with it 'closed'.

Vulture funds owns tens of billions of property and mortgages, yet are only going to pay €50m per year in tax.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/laffoy-comments-may-affect-bosi-distressed-mortgages-1.2157618

If BOSI messed up on their mortgage documents, you can't repossess the houses. Vulture funds have brought assets, that they might not be able to enforce. How is that vague?

If you dont know, in the context of your reply to me, then I'm not going to waste my time pointing it out.

I gave stats to your vague assertions/assumptions and you're back again loading up on them

Forbearance

.

ReddySteady

I read your post before it became deleted, very informative. Can I send you a private message.

Forbearance

Yes, no problem

ReddySteady

Just wondering, has anyone accepted Tanagers discount offer and if so, what lender did you refinance with?

kilns

I just had an offer to settle my mortgage with a 25% reduction with another "vulture fund". I am thinking of negotiating for a more reduced figure then selling the house. Has anyone first hand experience in this matter and succesfully settled with a fund previoisly?

76544567

When the new rental rules came in at Christmas i wanted out of the rental business, so i approached my lender, not a vulture fund, a regular lender, but will remain nameless for now until it's all done and dusted, it's so close now.
I had actually approached them a while ago too asking to settle the mortgage for a discount but was told no way then.
This time though they took a few weeks to come back to me with an offer of 25%.
After a bit more toing and froing we are now agreed on a discount of 35% for clearing the mortgage. I was hoping for 40 but 35% is good enough.
Heaps of paperwork though. So I'm going to pay off the mortgage less 35% to clear it.
Should be happening in the next month or so, but it's a slow process.
It's a 6 figure sum. Don't know if you would get better or worse deals with less or more to clear.