Fine - what to do?

dayna2010

Basically, I left college hopped on a bus using my card, hopped off to get luas and forgot to tag on.

I had topped up this morning and use my card all the time, which is clear form the history. After reading Luas seem very harsh on their regular customers, but I thought the fines are their to encourage those who don't or wont pay, to actual pay. Not to punish human error,,,,,any advice on what to do? Should I bother making a statement of explanation or just pay.....

magentis

To be fair,everyone would be saying"I left my pass at home",where should they draw a line.Its akin to rocking up the gates at an event and saying"yes,I have a ticket at home,let me in please,I will prove it to you after the event".

Victor

dayna2010 wrote: »

Basically, I left college hopped on a bus using my card, hopped off to get luas and forgot to tag on.

This would be weak grounds to appeal on.

After reading Luas seem very harsh on their regular customers,

No, for most people, they pay their fare and they avail of the transport. Nothing harsh in that.

You are confusing this with the practicality that any system (public transport, shop, business) has difficulty in making some people pay.

I thought the fines are their to encourage those who don't or wont pay, to actual pay.

No, they are there to deal with people who haven't paid this time - it doesn't make a difference on how regularly you use the system.

dudara

Send another appeal showing your pattern of buying weekly tickets. This happened me years ago (very similar to you) and I sent in a copy of the valid ticket plus a bank statement showing loads of weekly ticket purchases. This was on the instruction of the ticket inspector who issued the ticket. Appeal was successful.

Langerous

It's not a legitimate appeal though , you hadn't got a valid ticket on your person

dayna2010

Thanks Dubdara thats what I was thinking. Any business should have consideration for their long term users. So I will give that a shot.

dayna2010

Langerous wrote: »

It's not a legitimate appeal though , you hadn't got a valid ticket on your person

Technically not but I had topped up that morning and used it 4 times before that particular journey,,,,,, It's clear it was human error....I think I will try an appeal. Thanks for your time. Have a good evening!

Victor

dayna2010 wrote: »

Technically not but I had topped up that morning and used it 4 times before that particular journey,,,,,, It's clear it was human error....I think I will try an appeal. Thanks for your time. Have a good evening!

If you have a registered Leap Card, log on and you can access your transactions and print them. Otherwise, when using the bus, ask the bus driver to print your last 5 transactions.

Atlantic Dawn

Have you a track history of using the Luas that day each week and tagging on and off correctly? If you do appeal it, if you don't pay the fine.

dayna2010

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Have you a track history of using the Luas that day each week and tagging on and off correctly? If you do appeal it, if you don't pay the fine.

Yes I do on my old student card and this one! Thanks

XPS_Zero

People are bs-ing you mate

Or don't know what they're talking about

Short of extraordinary circumstances, if you didn't tag on for that journey you don't have a valid ticket so they won't accept an appeal.
They get a dozen emails a day saying "i loike ALWAYS tag on TOTALLY but loike forgot this time" if they were known to accept these appeals word word would get around that excuse gets you off and they'd loose a lot of revenue

Of course people make genuine mistakes but we're all adults, the onus is on us to ensure we're following the rules not on them to cut us a break

magicbastarder

to echo some of the above, i'd be surprised if they accepted your appeal. it's like saying to a garda 'i know i was caught doing 130km/h in a 100km/h zone, but i don't usually speed'.

Mrs OBumble

> what to do?

You did the crime, so do the time. Or in your case, pay the fine.

goingnowhere

The Luas bye laws require a ticket at all times, even if all the ticket machines are out of order at a stop you still must have a valid ticket.

No ticket => fine, no discussion. Its binary no grey at all


Luas has it locked down and simple. Legally Irish Rail has to prove you had 'intent' to defraud which is much harder to prove.

uck51js9zml2yt

You are required to have a valid ticket. It's your responsibility.
I hear similar reasons in my office every day of the week.
The legislation is there. It's your responsibility.

Hilly Bill

dayna2010 wrote: »

Technically not but I had topped up that morning and used it 4 times before that particular journey,,,,,, It's clear it was human error....I think I will try an appeal. Thanks for your time. Have a good evening!

It's always a case of human error when fines are issued.

newacc2015

You have nothing to lose by appealing it. Mention you are a student with limited means if you are.

I would appeal it

Isambard

the point of carrying the card is that you could have lent it to someone else , having one elsewhere is no excuse for that reason.

GM228

goingnowhere wrote: »

Luas has it locked down and simple. Legally Irish Rail has to prove you had 'intent' to defraud which is much harder to prove.

Intent only comes into play for certain situations with IE such as forging tickets or failing to pay add-on fares or surprisingly pay a fare for someon else. Simply not having a ticket is an offence just like on the LUAS which does not require intent to be established.

goingnowhere

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/act/31/section/132/enacted/en/html

(3) A passenger who—

(a) travels or attempts to travel on a railway of a railway undertaking without having previously paid his or her fare, and with intent to avoid such payment,

(b) having paid his or her fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid such payment, or

(c) having failed to pay his or her fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer or employee of a railway undertaking a false or misleading name or address,

is guilty of an offence.

magicbastarder

from that link:

(2) A passenger who fails—
(a) to comply with a request under subsection (1) to deliver up a ticket,
(b) to pay the fare required under subsection (1)(a), or
(c) to give his or her name and address, if requested under subsection (1)(b),
is guilty of an offence.

looks to me like it's crucial whether an 'and' or 'or' is implied at the end of line a. given that it's 'or' at end of line b, i'd guess 'or' operates at the end of line a.

GM228

goingnowhere wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/act/31/section/132/enacted/en/html

The offence is brought under S132 (2)(b) - which is covered under S132 (1)(a)(i) and (ii) for failing to pay and does not require intent.