is it possible to buy a share in a holiday home abroad?

armabelle

My family and I would like to spend 50% of our year in Spain or some place with nice weather. We have saved up enough to buy something really mediocre or buy half of something really nice. We think it is silly buying a place that will be empty half the time so we thought we could share the place with someone and be 50% share in the place. Does anyone here do this and if so how does it work?

thanks for any suggestions in advance

Elemonator

I have seen time shares in the Canaries?

If you shop around, you will find something cheap. If you buy in real Spanish towns it is always cheaper.

armabelle

Elemonator wrote: »

I have seen time shares in the Canaries?

If you shop around, you will find something cheap. If you buy in real Spanish towns it is always cheaper.

time share? not sure what you are talking about. Not what the OP is about at all

Elemonator

armabelle wrote: »

time share? not sure what you are talking about. Not what the OP is about at all

It's similar to what the OP has in mind, and could be a more luxury option. Time shares as I understand it, you can buy a property with others and you can use it for a set amount of time during the year. Or you may pay a smaller rate and have it a certain amount of the year for a set number of years.

CJmasgrande

Prices so cheap why bother with timeshare? I know southern Spain property well and I saw on TV last night an English lady looking to spend £20k in Almeria and she viewed 5 stunning properties all for under £21k some were £16 to £18k and some came with land. There was a lovely 2 bed apartment ready to live in for £18k. You can view the programme on channel 4s catchup

L1011

CJmasgrande wrote: »

Prices so cheap why bother with timeshare? I know southern Spain property well and I saw on TV last night an English lady looking to spend £20k in Almeria and she viewed 5 stunning properties all for under £21k some were £16 to £18k and some came with land. There was a lovely 2 bed apartment ready to live in for £18k. You can view the programme on channel 4s catchup

What was the original air date? There is basically one non-refurb in that price range that I can find and its tiny.

Michael D Not Higgins

L1011 wrote: »

What was the original air date? There is basically one non-refurb in that price range that I can find and its tiny.

Haven't watched it but here http://www.channel4.com/programmes/a-place-in-the-sun-2016-2017, originally aired yesterday. I'm sure there's better deals locally than what can be found on sites aimed at foreign tourists.

beertons

What will happen if the time you want to go over, overlaps with the other person you buy with? What you'll have to do is book it in advance with the other person in either 2 or 4 week blocks. Providing they agree.

Try buy it on your own. Look at somewhere a little further from the airport, with few holiday makers. That'll soften the price.

troyzer

Most people who buy holiday homes don't expect to be in them permanently. Why don't you just own it outright and rent it out the rest of the year through an agency? Or even better, AirBnB.

armabelle

beertons wrote: »

What will happen if the time you want to go over, overlaps with the other person you buy with? What you'll have to do is book it in advance with the other person in either 2 or 4 week blocks. Providing they agree.

Try buy it on your own. Look at somewhere a little further from the airport, with few holiday makers. That'll soften the price.

well, yes there are a lot of things to keep in mind but certain months can be allocated to the other owner. So 6 months each divided equally at time of purchase. I suppose then months could be swapped if neccesary. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

armabelle

troyzer wrote: »

Most people who buy holiday homes don't expect to be in them permanently. Why don't you just own it outright and rent it out the rest of the year through an agency? Or even better, AirBnB.

Because we only have so much money.

Senecio

I can see many reasons why it wouldn't work.

* Both people wanting access to the property at the same time.
* An expense occurs and argument over who is responsible to fix/replace things.
* One person lets their 21yr old son take the place with his mates and it gets trashed.

I just wouldn't go there.

the_syco

armabelle wrote: »

My family and I would like to spend 50% of our year in Spain or some place with nice weather.

armabelle wrote: »

Because we only have so much money.

It may be an idea to say how much you are willing to spend?

endacl

armabelle wrote: »

well, yes there are a lot of things to keep in mind but certain months can be allocated to the other owner. So 6 months each divided equally at time of purchase. I suppose then months could be swapped if neccesary. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Sure, all you need to do is find somebody equally naive to go in with. Good luck with that.

mugsymugsy

armabelle wrote: »

well, yes there are a lot of things to keep in mind but certain months can be allocated to the other owner. So 6 months each divided equally at time of purchase. I suppose then months could be swapped if neccesary. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I can see why it wouldn't work. Possible scenarios....Other person you buy with wants to sell. Other person wants to paint the walls purple. Other person leaves place a mess etc etc etc

Help!!!!

armabelle wrote: »

My family and I would like to spend 50% of our year in Spain or some place with nice weather. We have saved up enough to buy something really mediocre or buy half of something really nice. We think it is silly buying a place that will be empty half the time so we thought we could share the place with someone and be 50% share in the place. Does anyone here do this and if so how does it work?

thanks for any suggestions in advance

Why not but it outright & get a letting agency to rent it when your not there. Owning 50% with someone you dont know will only cause problems...what happens if you both want it the same time of the year?

quadrifoglio verde

How about buying somewhere with cheaper property but similar weather

Don't do it. Its a recipe for disaster.
The only circumstances I would consider would be if you already knew the other party really well (eg a sibling) and fully agree on how to split everything, but even then it has a high likelyhood of ending in tears.
Also applies to fractional ownership, time share and all similar concoctions.

HeidiHeidi

It's a reasonable assumption that the times that you'd like to live in the property would also be the times your partner would as well (summer months, or winter months if summer is screamingly hot, that sort of thing).

How would you propose to divide the occupancy between you?

Delphinium

If money is tight you need to do the sums carefully. Factor in taxes and charges on the property which are usually higher for holiday homes. Water bin and community charges as well as property tax soon mounts up. Inheritance laws may be a problem as well. Long stays in villa or hotel can be very cheap at times and no worry about maintenance and cleaning.

harr

Pain in the hole to be honest...I have two cousins who bought a house in Portugal between them during the boom, nothing but rows, both wanted to stay at same time of year ,fights over who broke what...one giving mates rates when renting it out leading to more fights..absolutely disaster.
It was repossessed in the end because one of them went bankrupt.

beertons

[Deleted User] wrote: »

(eg a sibling).

They'd be the last person I'd buy with.

Herself has an uncle that has a place in Portugal. Bought it in a scheme, kind of time share. Has it for 4 weeks of the year, 2 weeks start of May, and again in October. It's rented out for June to September. The rest of the slots are divided out by the others who bought into the scheme. If someone wants out of it, the other share holders get first option of buying said person out. They inherit that person's 4 weeks.

My folks bought an apartment in 2000. They head out to Malaga when ever they feel like it. I've been there twice, my sister a bit more.

beertons

beertons wrote: »

Herself has an uncle that has a place in Portugal. Bought it in a scheme, kind of time share. Has it for 4 weeks of the year, 2 weeks start of May, and again in October. It's rented out for June to September. The rest of the slots are divided out by the others who bought into the scheme. If someone wants out of it, the other share holders get first option of buying said person out. They inherit that person's 4 weeks.

Management fees in many such schemes can often cost the price of a holiday. It can be a poisoned chalice to inherit something like that.

beertons

Deleted User wrote: »

Management fees in many such schemes can often cost the price of a holiday. It can be a poisoned chalice to inherit something like that.

He bought in long before we got together. He's a clever lad, I'd say he has it well sorted. Management fee's, divided by 26(52/2), isn't a whole lot. No elevators, small pool, a paint every 5 years.

Mumha

There's a glut of property in Spain. If I were you, I'd rent. We sold ours last May, and will go back to the same place, but rent. Also beware of Spanish property issues where one of the owners dies....it's not straightforward. If you were to buy, and wanted to rent, do not rent on the year round market, you can get very unlucky with squatters, paying the first rent and then refusing to pay anymore. It can take 12 months to get them out, and, as happened to a friend of ours, they stripped the apartment when they had to leave. There wasn't a light fitting left. Depending where it is, the holiday market might be a possibility.

Spanish Eyes

Mumha wrote: »

There's a glut of property in Spain. If I were you, I'd rent. We sold ours last May, and will go back to the same place, but rent. Also beware of Spanish property issues where one of the owners dies....it's not straightforward. If you were to buy, and wanted to rent, do not rent on the year round market, you can get very unlucky with squatters, paying the first rent and then refusing to pay anymore. It can take 12 months to get them out, and, as happened to a friend of ours, they stripped the apartment when they had to leave. There wasn't a light fitting left. Depending where it is, the holiday market might be a possibility.

Agreed, I wouldn't buy abroad either, think of all the holliers you'd get for the price of an apartment in Spain!

OP would get a nice apartment in a good area for six months at a reduced rate compared to the price of short holiday lets.

Better to check a few places out by renting aswell. You may like the look of the apartment but in time might not like the area at all.

Factor in property taxes, community charge, maintenance, furnishings, appliances etc. if buying.

Renting is safer IMV.

armabelle

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Agreed, I wouldn't buy abroad either, think of all the holliers you'd get for the price of an apartment in Spain!

OP would get a nice apartment in a good area for six months at a reduced rate compared to the price of short holiday lets.

Better to check a few places out by renting aswell. You may like the look of the apartment but in time might not like the area at all.

Factor in property taxes, community charge, maintenance, furnishings, appliances etc. if buying.

Renting is safer IMV.

Thanks for the advice. Wouldn't owning a place be better than renting since it is yours and the monthly expenses on it are small? My father always taught us that rent was money down the drain. I guess maybe that is why I see it that way.

Like if we are planning on being there 6 months a year, we could rent here and own the place over there. Still think not a good idea?

also, what are holliers?

armabelle

Mumha wrote: »

There's a glut of property in Spain. If I were you, I'd rent. We sold ours last May, and will go back to the same place, but rent. Also beware of Spanish property issues where one of the owners dies....it's not straightforward. If you were to buy, and wanted to rent, do not rent on the year round market, you can get very unlucky with squatters, paying the first rent and then refusing to pay anymore. It can take 12 months to get them out, and, as happened to a friend of ours, they stripped the apartment when they had to leave. There wasn't a light fitting left. Depending where it is, the holiday market might be a possibility.

where did you have your own place?

Spanish Eyes

armabelle wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. Wouldn't owning a place be better than renting since it is yours and the monthly expenses on it are small? My father always taught us that rent was money down the drain. I guess maybe that is why I see it that way.

Like if we are planning on being there 6 months a year, we could rent here and own the place over there. Still think not a good idea?

also, what are holliers?

Sorry, holliers is an Irish way of saying Holidays (vacations)!

I do think renting abroad is the best way to go. Owning a property there can be full of costs, some of which can be quite high, as I said in my previous post....

Factor in property taxes, community charge, maintenance, furnishings, appliances etc. if buying.

And you will also have utility bills and insurance to pay aswell.

Do you own a property here? If you let it out for the six months you are away, you will have to register with PRTB and you could have problems getting tenants out at the end of the lease too.

If you cannot afford to buy outright I would forget about sharing ownership, it is too complicated and fraught with potential problems.

You can get a two bed apartment in Southern Spain on a long term lease (not a two week holiday let) sometimes for 500 euro a month, maybe a little higher.

Now that means each year it costs a little over 3,000 euro for six months. Let's say 4,000 euro. Cheap accommodation per night at that price, and you have no responsibilities, no risks.

The property market in Spain is not great, and it could get worse.

I'm just giving you my opinion. I would not buy abroad ever. Renting is the only way to go in my opinion.

But best of luck to you whatever choice you make.

the_syco

armabelle wrote: »

Like if we are planning on being there 6 months a year, we could rent here and own the place over there. Still think not a good idea?

You come back to an occupied house whose tenants have decided not to move, not to pay rent, and you'll take a year to get rid of them.

Not worth the stress. If you are in a high demand (touristy) area, maybe have an agency rent out your place for short lets on AirBnB.

76544567

We are buying a holiday property this year. Have it narrowed down to parts of Spain or Portugal.
Nice cheap flights whenever you feel like going.
We'll rent it out via airbnb whenever we arent using it via an agent.
Definitely in July and August it will be rented. Peak prices for rent and besides its too hot that time of year anyway.
From the research we have done so far the rental income will be fairly substantial, especially in the summer.
We were renting over here but getting out of that now due to the outlook not being very good for investment property in Ireland anymore.
So would recommend not renting your place here but buying outright abroad yourself and renting it rather than sharing it.

uli84

What you mean by "outlook not being very good for investment property in Ireland anymore"

pauliebdub

Try somewhere like Murcia or the area around Almeria in the south east. A bit off the beaten track but you should find somewhere reasonably cheap, Ryanair fly there and you're less likely to encounter Brits abroad or crowds in general.

Das Reich

Don't really know why irish and english like Spain so much, been there and didn't really liked, althought is cheap is not really beautiful. Balearic islands instead are very expensive. In your place i would buy in Algarve, or then trying southern Italy (Salento or Calabria), Greece, Croatia or Albania. All those places are way better than Spain. Don't know if renting is good idea because if you want to rent during summer prices get very expensive.

76544567

uli84 wrote: »

What you mean by "outlook not being very good for investment property in Ireland anymore"

Loads of in thrads in the property forum about it if you go there.
Op the reason Spain not Portugal are good is that it's easy and cheap to get there.
Whatever you do don't buy in a place where the flight route to it suddenly disappears or you won't be using it yourself anymore.
Also be careful that you don't buy it and all.of your relatives start using it. Then you are paying for an asset for everyone else to use and will get no airbnb rent out of it when you aren't in it.
Amazing how many people are subsidising all their relatives holidays and only getting a pint and a thanks for it.
A friend of mine has 2 bed apartment in Portugal and he doesn't go in the summer because it's too hot for him.
But is sister goes for three weeks every jul.
He airbnb s it for the rest of the time at €65 a night in peak season.
So his sister is getting a nice free trip out of it and he is forgoing over €1000 out of his pocket.
But he feels happy and she is delighted too. But it's €1000. I asked him how would he feel if he just handed her the €1000 every year given that she is richer than him anyway.

Mumha

armabelle wrote: »

where did you have your own place?

Torrevieja, which we loved, but as Spanish Eyes mentioned property taxes, community charges etc do cost, and you'd need to be using it a lot to justify it. Our costs (without even being there), were €2000+.

There were lots of reasons we sold, some of them were

1 We have a 10 year old in school and won't be able to get over a lower cost for the next 8 years or so. Consequently, we won't get the use we would have liked.

2. Factor in the basic costs, plus flights/car rental etc and maintenance costs

3. Spanish wills/succession for property is not the (relatively) straightforward thing that is here. You would definitely need to look into all that first. I know a retired person who sold for exactly that reason.

4. A fair amount of crime is directed against foreigners specifically, whether it is pickpocketing in markets or breaking into property, even when people are sleeping in their beds.

5. Knowing what we know of the area, we would definitely go back, and rent right on the beach for a fraction of what our yearly charges would have been.

6. If we had lots of time to go over for a few months, we would also rent, and get a place which is of a great standard, without any of the maintenance headaches.

Mumha

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sorry, holliers is an Irish way of saying Holidays (vacations)!

I do think renting abroad is the best way to go. Owning a property there can be full of costs, some of which can be quite high, as I said in my previous post....

Factor in property taxes, community charge, maintenance, furnishings, appliances etc. if buying.

And you will also have utility bills and insurance to pay aswell.

Do you own a property here? If you let it out for the six months you are away, you will have to register with PRTB and you could have problems getting tenants out at the end of the lease too.

If you cannot afford to buy outright I would forget about sharing ownership, it is too complicated and fraught with potential problems.

You can get a two bed apartment in Southern Spain on a long term lease (not a two week holiday let) sometimes for 500 euro a month, maybe a little higher.

Now that means each year it costs a little over 3,000 euro for six months. Let's say 4,000 euro. Cheap accommodation per night at that price, and you have no responsibilities, no risks.

The property market in Spain is not great, and it could get worse.

I'm just giving you my opinion. I would not buy abroad ever. Renting is the only way to go in my opinion.

But best of luck to you whatever choice you make.

100% correct.

We all buy into the dream, but knowing what we know now, you can still have the dream while someone else has the worry !!!

Mumha

76544567 wrote: »

We are buying a holiday property this year. Have it narrowed down to parts of Spain or Portugal.
Nice cheap flights whenever you feel like going.
We'll rent it out via airbnb whenever we arent using it via an agent.
Definitely in July and August it will be rented. Peak prices for rent and besides its too hot that time of year anyway.
From the research we have done so far the rental income will be fairly substantial, especially in the summer.
We were renting over here but getting out of that now due to the outlook not being very good for investment property in Ireland anymore.
So would recommend not renting your place here but buying outright abroad yourself and renting it rather than sharing it.

You're talking about holiday rentals, which is doable if you are close to the beach (but that will mean your property is more expensive when you buy), and you are in a good rentable area, or somewhere with good views.

My brother had a place over there before us, but also sold theirs to rent over there initially, but has now moved on to Vietnam, Cambodia etc. Himself and his wife built a small chalet in their back garden (bedroom, Kitchen/Living area, toilet/shower), with a view to renting out their house through a management company, and spending 6 months abroad when they retire. However, their Spanish experience has taught them that they can rent anywhere, and can move on when they want.

76544567

Mumha wrote: »

You're talking about holiday rentals, which is doable if you are close to the beach (but that will mean your property is more expensive when you buy), and you are in a good rentable area, or somewhere with good views.

My brother had a place over there before us, but also sold theirs to rent over there initially, but has now moved on to Vietnam, Cambodia etc. Himself and his wife built a small chalet in their back garden (bedroom, Kitchen/Living area, toilet/shower), with a view to renting out their house through a management company, and spending 6 months abroad when they retire. However, their Spanish experience has taught them that they can rent anywhere, and can move on when they want.

I am indeed talking about in demand areas. I thought it was a given that the OP was talking about living in that kind of area than in the middle of nowhere where no-one else wants to live.
I guess it's up to the OP to decide what they would like best in the end. But just throwing options out there anyway for them.

volchitsa

armabelle wrote: »

well, yes there are a lot of things to keep in mind but certain months can be allocated to the other owner. So 6 months each divided equally at time of purchase. I suppose then months could be swapped if neccesary. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I guess if you're retired and wanting winter months only, that could work if you found a family with children who wanted the high season. They wouldn't be free for six months though.

So I'm not too sure if 2Xsix months would be feasible, because I'd imagine there'd generally be a degree of overlap in the times you all wanted to stay there : younger families would want school holidays, including winter, and older couples would tend to want cooler medium or winter season, which I imagine is what you're thinking of too.

And if grandchildren come along, even older couples are going to want school holiday times as well.

How about buying it outright and renting out the times you don't need/want it? That way you could adjust if it's too expensive, rent it out for longer if need be, instead of having a fixed contract.

ETA : or renting a furnished place for six months, as others have suggested. I've friends who rent abroad for a couple or three months every winter, in Madeira or southern Spain, and they get great value because they take a villa that is rented by the week during high season, and get a further reduction because it's a longish term rent.

armabelle

Das Reich wrote: »

Don't really know why irish and english like Spain so much, been there and didn't really liked, althought is cheap is not really beautiful. Balearic islands instead are very expensive. In your place i would buy in Algarve, or then trying southern Italy (Salento or Calabria), Greece, Croatia or Albania. All those places are way better than Spain. Don't know if renting is good idea because if you want to rent during summer prices get very expensive.

it is sunny like 300 days of the year

HeidiHeidi

armabelle wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. Wouldn't owning a place be better than renting since it is yours and the monthly expenses on it are small? My father always taught us that rent was money down the drain. I guess maybe that is why I see it that way.

Like if we are planning on being there 6 months a year, we could rent here and own the place over there. Still think not a good idea?

also, what are holliers?

Not sure if this has been addressed already in the thread, but good luck with coming back every six months to find a new rental property to suit you! Particularly if you're in an urban area, but really with the state of the rental market anywhere in Ireland that would be a seriously dodgy enterprise.

Of all the suggestions in the thread so far, negotiating a cheap long-term rental price on a property in a location that you like seems like the best idea by far to me.