Insurance scam?

icrusader

Hi all , I'm stressing out over something that happened the couple of days ago , was sitting in long line of traffic waiting for a light , got distracted by one of the kids and took my foot off the brake thinking handbrake was on and car rolled slowly into car in front, small crack on top of bumper about 8 inches long . driver of the car has come back with a quote to fix of almost 2000 euros !  I can't see how it would cost that much . it was a 4 or 5 year old bmw.
Could it be a scam ? can i ask for a second quote ?

grogi

icrusader wrote: »

Hi all , I'm stressing out over something that happened the couple of days ago , was sitting in long line of traffic waiting for a light , got distracted by one of the kids and took my foot off the brake thinking handbrake was on and car rolled slowly into car in front, small crack on top of bumper about 8 inches long . driver of the car has come back with a quote to fix of almost 2000 euros !  I can't see how it would cost that much . it was a 4 or 5 year old bmw.
Could it be a scam ? can i ask for a second quote ?

The guy is in his right to ask whatever he wants. You have the right to tell him to contact your insurance.

What will cost you less?

CalamariFritti

Probably full bumper replacement, they're not cheap. You could argue a bumper that costs 2 grand defeats the purpose of a bumper but it is what it is.

bazz26

Sounds like the quote is by a main dealer for a replacement bumper sprayed and fitted. You also don't know what damage might have occurred behind the bumper. You can ask the other party to get another quote but unfortunately they are not under any obligation to do so or go with a cheaper quote, they are entitled to get the car repaired at the garage of their choice not yours. If your not happy with the price given then the alternative is for the other party claim off your insurance. Your insurance company will probably send out their assessor to inspect the damage before paying out.

Del2005

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Probably full bumper replacement, they're not cheap. You could argue a bumper that costs 2 grand defeats the purpose of a bumper but it is what it is.

Bumpers used to be to protect the vehicle from small dings, like the OP. Unfortunately they didn't work to well when you had a little ding with pedestrians so now they are made of soft plastic and usually have a collapsible section to protect the occupants from injury. Very easy to build up expensive repair bills on modern cars.

colm_mcm

€900 or whatever the unpainted cost is hilarious though for a mass produced piece of plastic that's designed to break.

icrusader

Hi , thanks for the replies , other party just sent the bill by email and it is for replaccement bumper and replacment parking sensor loom. i had a dashcam and it shows a small bump but my car is heavy . can't afford to pay 2000 and i have step back protection but what will happen to my yearly premium?

bazz26

Standard premium main dealer pricing I'd say. I got quoted €750 for 2 tyres by them last week when I can buy 4 online for about €100 more. I know a bricks and mortar business has higher overheads but that's a very healthy markup on them all the same.

icrusader

oh well , will have to be more careful in future. what do i do now ? should i phone my insurance company or just tell the other party to put in their claim?

colm_mcm

Tbh if they're the type to possibly inflate the claim (who knows, the loom might be damaged...) they could be the type to suddenly get a stiff neck. I'd put it through the insurance and be done with it.

icrusader

Thanks for the straight answer , will ring them tomorrow.

mickdw

you damaged a 12 or 13 reg bmw.
The owner is entitled to a full and proper repair.
If I'm in the market for such a car and see any kind of ripple in the finish that would indicate filler, I will be asking questions so they are entitled to have it back as new.
It is alot of money so you may want to put it through your Insurance.
The bmw owner is not bound to actually spend this cash on the car. They are well within their rights to have it touched up for 300 but they are entitled to the full cost of a proper repair.

human 19

I would tell them I cant afford that, so have to go through the insurance company. If they think an insurance assessor would would drastically reduce the cost, they may drop the cost. I would also google the price for the replacement for the damage and see what it comes to, before making a decision

Heisenberg1

OP let your insurance company deal phone them and give all relavent details and be done with it.

TallGlass

Hard situation to be in OP...

2K is a lot of money, it's this type of thing we hope to never use but have insurance for. Sadly in this country, we just cannot use it as its designed.

You've two/three options here.

1. Pay the bill yourself, but log it with insurance company (just in case of any messing around further down the line) but your premium may be effected.

2. Let the insurance company deal with it and your premium rises for next year.

3. Try reason with the person, explain you don't want to go via insurance but don't have 2000€, you've 1000€ and are willing to pay it to end this issue.

But they are entitled to get it fixed where they like or get the full amount.

grogi

TallGlass wrote: »

Hard situation to be in OP...

2K is a lot of money, it's this type of thing we hope to never use but have insurance for. Sadly in this country, we just cannot use it as its designed.

You've two/three options here.

1. Pay the bill yourself, but log it with insurance company (just in case of any messing around further down the line) but your premium may be effected.

2. Let the insurance company deal with it and your premium rises for next year.

3. Try reason with the person, explain you don't want to go via insurance but don't have 2000€, you've 1000€ and are willing to pay it to end this issue.

But they are entitled to get it fixed where they like or get the full amount.

Ad. 2: The premium will increase for five years...

I would go through insurance, they will make sure the claim is as small as possible. And then reimburse the insurer, which keeps the ncb, claim history and premium intact.

Del2005

human 19 wrote: »

I would tell them I cant afford that, so have to go through the insurance company. If they think an insurance assessor would would drastically reduce the cost, they may drop the cost. I would also google the price for the replacement for the damage and see what it comes to, before making a decision

I doubt that an assessor will reduce the quote as they use main dealers and new parts, it could even go up. There is zero point in the OP finding a price they either pay what's asked or put it through insurance.

insullation

OP don't forget to ask for the old bumper once the job is done....you might be surprised that the so called replaced bumper can't be located!!!

Cee-Jay-Cee

insullation wrote: »

OP don't forget to ask for the old bumper once the job is done....you might be surprised that the so called replaced bumper can't be located!!!

You can ask but they can tell you to f*** off and are perfectly within their rights.

ShadowHearth

human 19 wrote: »

I would tell them I cant afford that, so have to go through the insurance company. If they think an insurance assessor would would drastically reduce the cost, they may drop the cost. I would also google the price for the replacement for the damage and see what it comes to, before making a decision

With stuff going on lately, I think you are lucky, you got am option to pay yourself for damage to car. I am surprised he didn't walked out of his car rubbing his neck and complaining about back pain.
If he will go insurance company way, I would not be surprised that he will get a good advice from a friend who will tell him to go to doctor amd get a whiplash note.
You will save 2K now, but you will pay way more in premiums for very long time.
Though if I would settle with him, I would get him to sign some document at solicitor that he got compensated for damage and has no more claims. Last thing you want, is for him to take 2K off you and then claim your insurance on top of it.

cerastes

a scam? you hit them, be different if you said they reversed into you and tried to blame you, which Ive heard of. Its good to make good habits a routine, another thread of many posters refuting the benefits of the handbrake, tbh I sympathise, its easy to be distracted, with kids especially, so all the more reason to limit the risk of something happening. Its fair enough they have their car returned to the condition they had it in before the bump. If they get it done professionally they loose nothing on the sale, if they decide to get it done cheaper or not at all, then any money paid to them offsets the loss if they later sell it, as most buyers would look to knock the price down on cracks, dents, imperfections.
Whatever the cost, sounds like there could be no injuries and be glad there wasnt a pedestrian walking between the cars, could have been worse, small consolation when you have to pay out but thats why we need insurance, or some people might not be able to make good any damage they might cause.

grogi

ShadowHearth wrote: »

You will save 2K now, but you will pay way more in premiums for very long time.
.

Horrible times we live, when it is cheaper to pay yourself than use the insurance you pay for.

Del2005

insullation wrote: »

OP don't forget to ask for the old bumper once the job is done....you might be surprised that the so called replaced bumper can't be located!!!

There's no requirement for the other person to repair the car. You are compensating them for the damage you did, they could go on holiday if they want.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

mickdw

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't agree. they are not making money out of it.
The true cost of repair is assessed. they are paid this. If they don't bother repairing it, that is their business but car will be devalued by similar amount. If it can be repaired cheaper by filling bumper and repainting, that is a choice they are making but it's not the same as it was and they are entitled to the excess cash to put them back in same financial state as before the accident.
In this case, if he goes for a cheap repair, next time he is trading in, salesman may well see a repair and adjust his price accordingly immediately eating up any cash that was pocketed.

icrusader

Wow , thanks for all the replies guys , the reason why i asked if it was a scam is because directly afterwards my kids and i went to an antiques shop to look through some old coins and i mentioned it to the owner who knew the other party and had a claim against his wife from the same person last year .Then his partner said that this person puts in about 3 claims per year and that her husband owns a body repair shop. the name on the quote does not match her surname but who knows if anything is going on at all .

Marcusm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Probably full bumper replacement, they're not cheap. You could argue a bumper that costs 2 grand defeats the purpose of a bumper but it is what it is.

I'll never stop telling the story if a colleague whose bumper replacement cost in excess of £10k.

ohnonotgmail

icrusader wrote: »

Wow , thanks for all the replies guys , the reason why i asked if it was a scam is because directly afterwards my kids and i went to an antiques shop to look through some old coins and i mentioned it to the owner who knew the other party and had a claim against his wife from the same person last year .Then his partner said that this person puts in about 3 claims per year and that her husband owns a body repair shop. the name on the quote does not match her surname but who knows if anything is going on at all .

but you crashed into the back of them? They are entitled to be put back into the position they were in before you hit them. A new bumper including parking sensors is expensive. if you think the quote is too high go through your insurance.

Kimbot

icrusader wrote: »

Wow , thanks for all the replies guys , the reason why i asked if it was a scam is because directly afterwards my kids and i went to an antiques shop to look through some old coins and i mentioned it to the owner who knew the other party and had a claim against his wife from the same person last year .Then his partner said that this person puts in about 3 claims per year and that her husband owns a body repair shop. the name on the quote does not match her surname but who knows if anything is going on at all .

Well if you think itsa scam then let your insurance deal with it but tbh you wont get anywhere really with this other than paying out one way or the other.

vandriver

Marcusm wrote: »

I'll never stop telling the story if a colleague whose bumper replacement cost in excess of £10k.

Well you stopped today!
What car?

beechwood55

icrusader wrote: »

Wow , thanks for all the replies guys , the reason why i asked if it was a scam is because directly afterwards my kids and i went to an antiques shop to look through some old coins and i mentioned it to the owner who knew the other party and had a claim against his wife from the same person last year .Then his partner said that this person puts in about 3 claims per year and that her husband owns a body repair shop. the name on the quote does not match her surname but who knows if anything is going on at all .

How could it be a scam? Your own dash cam has proven that you - in your heavy car - hit the other person's car.

ironclaw

icrusader wrote: »

quote does not match her surname but who knows if anything is going on at all .

Tap the name into SoloCheck or CRO, it should list the director(s) of the business. It doesn't make any difference to your predicament however. Would however annoy me greatly if someone went to friends and family for a repair and charged my insurance full whack. I'd happily do a cash deal in such circumstances so at least everyone benefits and keeps the karma even.

CramCycle

Don't forget the cost of a rental while it is in getting the replacement. Does not look like they are charging you for that but they may add it on when it goes through the insurance.
Sounds tough but in reality, the car rolled while you were not paying attention and therefore not fully in control. He could well be exaggerating but I have seen cheaper cars with far more expensive rear ends to replace.
There is also risk doing this cash in hand, if you go that route.
Truthfully though, I think you are risking more trouble by not going through the insurance. Were the Gardai notified at the time?

Anjobe

vandriver wrote: »

Well you stopped today!
What car?

In the car park where I work I used to see an Overfinch Range Rover with a full body kit and matte grey paint finish. The last time I saw it a few months ago the front bumper was cracked and hanging off at one end, and the grille was cracked as well. I'm not sure about the bumper but the grille was carbon fibre. I did wonder how much that would have cost to fix, it could easily have been 10K.

Allinall

mickdw wrote: »

I don't agree. they are not making money out of it.
The true cost of repair is assessed. they are paid this. If they don't bother repairing it, that is their business but car will be devalued by similar amount. If it can be repaired cheaper by filling bumper and repainting, that is a choice they are making but it's not the same as it was and they are entitled to the excess cash to put them back in same financial state as before the accident.
In this case, if he goes for a cheap repair, next time he is trading in, salesman may well see a repair and adjust his price accordingly immediately eating up any cash that was pocketed.

By that logic he should only be entitled to a 3 or 4 year old bumper, in the same condition as his one was before the tip.

the_syco

icrusader wrote: »

was sitting in long line of traffic waiting for a light , got distracted by one of the kids and took my foot off the brake thinking handbrake was on and car rolled slowly into car in front, small crack on top of bumper about 8 inches long

Not sure how good your dashcam is, but could you see the crack before you hit the car?

If not, go through the insurance.

mickdw

Allinall wrote: »

By that logic he should only be entitled to a 3 or 4 year old bumper, in the same condition as his one was before the tip.

Yes if you can get an unmarked bumper with original paint that has not been repaired at any time and is a perfect paint match.
Having a new part fitted imo does not compensate for having to have paint work carried out on otherwise original car. A bumper is best case but I would be livid having to have a filled quarter panel or something like that regardless of cost to fix if I had an untouched car from new.
Fitting a used bumper that has to be resprayed from a different colour is far from original standard.

pcardin

ironclaw wrote: »

icrusader wrote: »

quote does not match her surname but who knows if anything is going on at all .

Would however annoy me greatly if someone went to friends and family for a repair and charged my insurance full whack. I'd happily do a cash deal in such circumstances so at least everyone benefits and keeps the karma even.

I agree. My wife had a tiny accident over 5 years ago, small scratch on other persons Getz. Driver of the Getz gives her details, Ten minutes later her solicitor arrived at the scene with same surname (later turns out to be her husband), Fifteen minutes later a single Garda member from Blackrock station arrives, same surname again.  Few week later got contacted by my insurance, 3 claims lodged against my insurance - car + 2 personal injury claims. Based on how accident happened and that both cars were almost standstill I was very loud and vocal that this stinks fraud, similar surnames of the all three even added to that stink. Personal injury claims got luckily dismissed and my insurance paid out a 1500 for getz (could by two similar ones for that money on DoneDeal at the time). Insurance was affected for next 5 years.

Marcusm

vandriver wrote: »

Well you stopped today!
What car?

Nissan GT-R in 2009; had it a week and reversed into an S-Max at children's school. Unpainted bumper was £8,300, 1 litre of paint was €1,311 and the balance was the work including transporting from London to Liverpool (specialist body shop) and back. He'd only had it a couple of months and was moving to the ZuS shortly afterwards so didn't mind the insurance hit. He described 9 different paint layers.

cerastes

Marcusm wrote: »

Nissan GT-R in 2009; had it a week and reversed into an S-Max at children's school. Unpainted bumper was £8,300, 1 litre of paint was €1,311 and the balance was the work including transporting from London to Liverpool (specialist body shop) and back. He'd only had it a couple of months and was moving to the ZuS shortly afterwards so didn't mind the insurance hit. He described 9 different paint layers.

The Zus? but, you hit someone elses car? driving your week old Nissan GT-R in reverse in a school carpark? I have read that more incidents occur proportionally when reversing, but him going off to Zus? wherever that is, why would he not mind the insurance hit? surely he had no insurance hit?

TheChizler

Someone rolled into me in traffic a year ago and I let them away with it as there was only an inch long crack in the bumper and they were so upset. Wish I'd got it replaced as the crack grows an inch every month and I'm going to have to eventually replace it out of my own pocket. Very understandable that they'd want a proper job done.

cerastes

I hope I dont jinx myself for the future, someone (kinda/it was nearly worse) hit me, I let them off/had to calm them down before I left. I saw the traffic come to a halt but I was still suprised at the suddeness of it, someone a few cars up was delaying and I think they were on their phone, realising traffic was moved on, tearing off then hammering the brakes, person behind me obviously didnt see this, I could see her moving fast in the mirror, knew she wasnt stopping, Im sure at one point I could see the horror in her face as she realised what was happening (maybe she hadnt been paying attention or on her phone?), thankfully she ploughed up the central concrete kerb, she hit my car but it didnt move, but there was an unmerciful twang, I was sure the bumper must have been damaged or hanging off, but it wasnt, could see a friction mark where she must have rubbed past the corner so the bumper must have flexed and returned.

Now had she done damage, Id have wanted her to make it good as it would cost me time and money to sort even though the car is older, it may have failed it on an NCT had damage occured, but I would have asked for her to pay out of her pocket rather than insurance. I was relieved and quietly grateful she drove her car up the kerb as my son was in his carseat in the back of the car and never woke.

OP In the event of material damage, I wouldnt quibble the damage, you may even just pi$$ the other person off, the person has a new enough car, just be grateful no one stepped between yours and their car or that you or they werent injured, that could drag out and add up to more than a repalcement bumper.

Delacent

Op has step back no claims in place.

If op has 5 years ncb, it will go back to 3 years.

So insurance co is probably best option.

As for 2k - bmw are horrendous for pricing repairs.

Marcusm

cerastes wrote: »

The Zus? but, you hit someone elses car? driving your week old Nissan GT-R in reverse in a school carpark? I have read that more incidents occur proportionally when reversing, but him going off to Zus? wherever that is, why would he not mind the insurance hit? surely he had no insurance hit?

It wasn't me; it was a colleague. By then he knew he was moving to the US! Meaning that he could abandon his no claims bonus. The cost of fixing the S Max was minor. The gold plated change of bumper (it looked as if someone had punched the corner of it) might not have been done if he was going to hear the cost of increased insurance premiums. Needless to say he was a laughing stock for weeks. Sure if you could hit a large car he could have moved down 3 or 4 kids.

icrusader

Thanks for all the replies , I have gone through the insurance and they are " still investigating" but i was at fault and i have decided to be much more careful and use the handbrake every single time i am stopped in traffic. other person did start rubbing their neck before she drove away so i was expecting an injury claim but the dashcam footage shows how small a bump it was so i expect to just get a damage claim. we'll see anyway

twin_beacon

I got rear ended around 2 years ago, I had a 5 year old Insignia. Bumper had to be replaced, the bar behind the bumper. His insurance company quoted 2k to fix my car. The car didn't have parking sensors, that would have driven the cost up even more if it did.
The guy that hit me was a teenager and didn't have a full license, his dad offered to pay for the work If I didn't put it through his kids insurance. The car was fixed at a body shop used by an opel garage for a €900.