Crash liabilities question (as a witness)

Fozzie Bear

Quick question my fellow boarders.

My wife was driving out of town this morning and the car in front of her spun 360 on the greasey road and hit the ditch. Bit of damage done to the car but nothing major and nobody else was hurt or involved.

However the lady driver was very upset, crying, shocked etc and asked another stopped motorist to ring the fire brigade as she thought there was a burning smell coming off her car.

It was raining and my wife told the shocked upset lady to sit into our car while they waited for the fire brigade and ambulance to arrive. In the end the fire brigade was not needed as the car was in no danger when they arrived and inspected it.

However here is the kicker. The officer in charge of the fire brigade took my wife aside and told her that what she did was a nice gesture, letting the shocked lady sit into our car out of the rain. However he told that if the ambulance had arrived by then he would have more than likely have had to take the roof off our car to extract the lady on a spinal board! And he has already had to do this several times previously! Luckily the lady had got out of our car by then to talk to someone else before the ambulance arrived.

SO my question is, who pays for our car in that situation? Does the crashed cars insurance cover it? Does our own insurance cover it? Or do we end up paying out of our own pocket for a replacement car? I'm guessing because my wife told her to get into our car this would negate our own insurance? So we would end up with a bill of tens of thousands because of a kind gesture to an upset fellow driver.

Also is the person who rang the fire brigade liable for any costs involved there? Or again does the crashed cars insurance cover this? Would the fact that the crashed cars driver asked them to ring pass the liability onto her own insurance?

ba_barabus

A very good question. Ive read yhat in the uk if this happens that your insurance or the injured partys will not cover your car. There was a case a year or 2 back where Vauxhal stepped in and replaced the persons car for one of similar value.

Damien360

That's a good one. I never thought about the injured driver now in your car and then needing to be cut out.

Not sure fire brigade charges work as they do when they are called to a house and everyone claims not to have called to avoid the charge. Pretty certain it is claimed against the insured party that caused the accident, hence why they are in most insurance policies.

Mycroft H

Gone are the days of putting people on spinal boards as a precaution, as full immobilisation carries it's own lot of risks. By the sounds of it would be extremely unlikely that injury has been sustained given she's already walking about. High risk factors in RTCs are ejections/rollovers/high speed/high speed shunts/car vs HGV. I would disagree with the fire officer (who aren't medically trained beyond basic first responders in rural ireland)

I'm unsure about the cost of insurance regarding an extraction in this situation but the Civil Law (Good Samaritan's) Act 2011 covers anything from the medical side once it's done in good faith.

(source, training as a paramedic in the UK)

Fozzie Bear

Ya its not something that I would have thought of either. Anyones normal compassionate reaction would be to tell that person to sit into their car and comfort them.

It would be some kick in the arse if that ended up with your car being cut to pieces and I'm sure you would be left with the cost of buying a replacement car. Your own insurance would find some way to weasel out of it. Your own fault for asking them into the car etc....

Fozzie Bear

Mycroft H wrote: »

Gone are the days of putting people on spinal boards as a precaution, as full immobilisation carries it's own lot of risks. By the sounds of it would be extremely unlikely that injury has been sustained given she's already walking about. High risk factors in RTCs are ejections/rollovers/high speed/high speed shunts/car vs HGV. I would disagree with the fire officer (who aren't medically trained beyond basic first responders in rural ireland)

I'm unsure about the cost of insurance regarding an extraction in this situation but the Civil Law (Good Samaritan's) Act 2011 covers anything from the medical side once it's done in good faith.

(source, training as a paramedic in the UK)

So there is a possibility of insurance covering it.

Mycroft H

Besides the fact that it was unlikely to occur here anyway.

Isambard

gone? just this morning I watched a UK documentary where two cars had a minor collision in a Tesco car park and they cut off the roof.

Mycroft H

Depends on the nature of the patient and how risk averse the clinician on scene is. May not have been a registered professional on scene either that would preclude immobilisation.

A read for those interested.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1460408614556441

ba_barabus

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/9786539/Good-Samaritan-horrified-as-car-destroyed-after-helping-crash-survivors.html

neris

would nearly seem that if you witness an accident youd be better off just driving on and pretending you saw nothing

Mycroft H

Car vs HGV and neurological symptoms. Other examples in the article point out dangerous mechanisms; high speed rollover. Immobilisation would have happened here regardless. People can be extracted safely without taking off the roof; it's a bit more time consuming and can be done without the fire service. Situation dependent, roof off is easier and sometimes quicker.

bear1

If you had comprehensive insurance could you not argue that seeing as your car was damaged due to a third party then they should pay out?
Probably better off in that sort of case to keep the person in your car and then when you see the emergency services ask them to get out.

Melodeon

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Also is the person who rang the fire brigade liable for any costs involved there? Or again does the crashed cars insurance cover this? Would the fact that the crashed cars driver asked them to ring pass the liability onto her own insurance?

Fire brigade charges are levied on the beneficial recipient of the service, no matter who actually called them out.

dev100

The fire brigade work closely with the emergency response team in my job .....

The fireman's advice was don't let anyone in an accident sit in your car after the accident as adrenaline and shock kicks in and they can move around but afterward a period of time, the body seizes up and if the injured person complains of pains . Their Sop is to cut the roof off .

He told of a case of an accident where the guards came along and let the person sit in their brand new car and the firemen ended up cutting up the car.

Sue Pa Key Pa

No 3rd party was negligent towards you, so their insurance would not compensate you. The damage to your car, caused by the fire brigade, is not 'accidental damage', so my opinion is that your own policy wouldn't cover it either

Fozzie Bear

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

No 3rd party was negligent towards you, so their insurance would not compensate you. The damage to your car, caused by the fire brigade, is not 'accidental damage', so my opinion is that your own policy wouldn't cover it either

Ya thats what I was thinking too. Plus the fact that the wife told her to get into our car. I'm sure our Insurance would argue that puts some sort of responsibility/liability on my wife and negate our cover. Something akin to leaving the keys in your car and its gets stolen. Its your own fault

Del2005

Mycroft H wrote: »

Car vs HGV and neurological symptoms. Other examples in the article point out dangerous mechanisms; high speed rollover. Immobilisation would have happened here regardless. People can be extracted safely without taking off the roof; it's a bit more time consuming and can be done without the fire service. Situation dependent, roof off is easier and sometimes quicker.

The UK is a different country with different procedures. In Ireland people sue and get huge payouts for minor issues. Once the person complains about neck or back injuries then the roof comes off.

CJhaughey

Best thing to keep in your car a couple of space blankets, cheap and keep people dry and warm.
Not to mention they may be useful for yourself in an emergency situation.
At the price they are its much cheaper than a DIY convertible!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Retain-Body-Heat-Emergency-Space-Rescue-Thermal-Mylar-Blankets-160cm-x-210cm-/152037343625?hash=item236621c189:g:zKwAAOSw9KpW~pgF

chinwag

Guy on Liveline today had the roof of his car removed by fire brigade recently after he comforted a crash victim in his car. He wasn't involved in the incident himself, he just stopped to offer assistance.

chinwag

chinwag wrote: »

Guy on Liveline today had the roof of his car removed by fire brigade recently after he comforted a crash victim in his car. He wasn't involved in the incident himself, he just stopped to offer assistance.

I just wouldn't allow it to happen to my car,
Im sure others would be pressured into it but I couldnt see myself letting them do it.

cbreeze

BrownFinger wrote: »

I just wouldn't allow it to happen to my car,
Im sure others would be pressured into it but I couldnt see myself letting them do it.

Worse for the man on Liveline, the other driver that the man stopped behind to help the injured passenger was not insured, he has to pay for a rented car as his insurer wont cover it and his new insurance will be loaded

punisher5112

BrownFinger wrote: »

I just wouldn't allow it to happen to my car,
Im sure others would be pressured into it but I couldnt see myself letting them do it.

Problem is the guy wasn't told first he knew was when they had generator set up and jaws out to cut.

They would be very quick to pull you away.

Other issue for him is the girl wasn't insured that he stopped to help. Her insurance won't cover and his insurance will only give buttons for car and now he will be left with a claim and lose no claims.

I believe he should be able to go through mibi though.

He really needs to get a specialized solicitor.