Heating Control Upgrade??

Interesting101

Hi Guys, Looking for some advice.

Im thinking about getting the grant for the heating control upgrades.

My current layout is a follows.
Have a gas boiler which heats the rads and water.
Have an immersion fitted to cylinder to heat water only if required.
Think this means i have one zone but not sure??


I was thinking of updating to TRV values and getting a new wireless boilder switch that i can control via an android app.
There a few rooms in the house that get minimal usage.

Would people recommend this?

And do people think i would be better to buy equipment myself and getting someone to do the work or is the grant option a good way to go for this work.

What ya think??

john_doe.

i have a similair situation and wish to put in a shower.
have you considered a combo boiler?

what kind of wireless switch were you thinking of?

i have been looking around at the choice of combi condenser boiler, nest, hive, tado
the tado trv's are about £60 each on amazon.

the combo boiler seems quite impressive with on demand hot water, but i don't know whats involved in replacing my existing boiler with this, how much it would cost and if they are recommended by people in Ireland.
Failing that i will get a wireless control to control the gas and the hot water immersion.
the nest 3 has independent control of boiler and immersion from what i can see.

Interesting101

Ive electric showers and not looking to change boiler at the moment.

I was looking at getting regular TRV's and just using the a wifi switch for turning on / off the heating remotely.

I was looking at Netatmo (think they got good reviews here before)

Shefwedfan

Can you turn on the boiler just to heat the water? or does it heat the water & house at same time?

If it only heats water/house at same time it is single zone

If you just want to turn on/off the system using laptop/mobile why not look at Climote? they are Irish company, I have one which I got free with deal from Airtricity. I have a dual zone and it will support up to 3 zones. You can connect it up to wireless thermostat which means you can put the thermostat into the room you want to make sure hits the desired temp...you will probably find your current thermostat is in the hall which is probably the coldest part of the house so you are heating the rest of the house above the temp you want.

I have Climote a couple of years and love it, moved house and brought it with me. Just got electrician to install it and then rang the guys and they connected everything back up to main system, very helpful. I had it in box for 12 months while moving

Really TRV's I don't think add much to your house, there is argument(online) if they are worth installing or not. Depends on how much they will cost to install I guess.

You can use TRV seemingly to control the heat in room but I have them installed and dont see any great benefit, I find it better having the wireless thermostat in the kids bedroom, once that room gets to right temp then I am happy, I find rest of house is ok then as well.

Shefwedfan

Climote Offers below

https://www.sseairtricity.com/ie/home/products/electricity-climote/

Airtricity offer

https://www.electricireland.ie/switch/new-customer/price-plans/climote?priceType=C&pricePlanId=0

Electric Ireland offer

My offer was free Climote with 20% off Electric and 10% off Gas. I got it off Bonkers for Airtricity. When I went to move to another provider the next year they gave me the same offer and another Climote. I kept that one in box as I knew I was moving house :-)

Now on oil so dont get those offers anymore

Shefwedfan

Dont get ripped off with TRV's. I redid the plumbing in my old house and didn't even realise I had TRV installed but when I priced on adverts to get them installed I think I got priced 200-400 for them. It was 4 bedroom house. It was after that I actually figured out I already had them installed.

I don't know if there is much difference between models but pricing attached below for some options(scroll down page and you can see more expensive ones). I bought a load of painting equipment off this company last week, really good service and free shipping if you use ParcelMotel or something like that.
If plumbing if fitting as well just check how much they are charging for fitting and for the TRV.....

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p12821?searchstr=trv

listermint

have you considered the TRVs had all the rooms set up for you and without them you would have had a poorer experience....

Shefwedfan

listermint wrote: »

have you considered the TRVs had all the rooms set up for you and without them you would have had a poorer experience....

Not sure if that is directed to me?

If so I am not sure, I read a good few articles online and there is arguments for and against them. I didn't see OP said he wasn't using some of the rooms so in this case they might be ideal as he can set them to only come on if freezing etc.

Just to careful with plumbers as they are rip off merchants when installing....

Interesting101

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Can you turn on the boiler just to heat the water? or does it heat the water & house at same time?

If it only heats water/house at same time it is single zone



Really TRV's I don't think add much to your house, there is argument(online) if they are worth installing or not. Depends on how much they will cost to install I guess.

You can use TRV seemingly to control the heat in room but I have them .

Sounds like i only have 1 zone.
I guess if i turned off all the rads the water would heat on its own but i cant choose.

As for cost of TRVs yeah i have seen a big difference in price and also have read articles about pros and cons.

Would be interested to know if anyone did the job via the grant option versus just finding your own plumber and comparing the overall costs.

Shefwedfan

Interesting101 wrote: »

Sounds like i only have 1 zone.
I guess if i turned off all the rads the water would heat on its own but i cant choose.

As for cost of TRVs yeah i have seen a big difference in price and also have read articles about pros and cons.

Would be interested to know if anyone did the job via the grant option versus just finding your own plumber and comparing the overall costs.

You should have a tap in hot press which you can turn on/off. This will change the amount of hot water coming from boiler to heat the water in immersion tank. You should be able to turn it all the way on and just heat water. Most houses have this setup. Also you can turn off so you dont heat water at all

The grant option I have found is a pure scam. Most of the time it ends up costing you more than paying cash. I have done up 2 houses( in process of doing up one now), both times I wanted to do all the grants etc but after all the pricing I have found it costs way too much to use the grant scheme.

Sign up for deal with free controls upgrade and then just price around for TRV's. Ask them to break out cost of TRV and installation. Then buy the TRV's yourself and get them to install. You will find the plumbers are adding on premium for picking up the TRV's

john_doe.

seem to be coming across the same when reviewing TRV's the smart ones with wireless control are very expensive like tado.

the climote seems interesting, does it come with independent control for water heater and gas , the nest 3 and hive seem to have this.

the only concern i have is how long independent companies like climote will stick around with Nest gaining in popularity.

what kind of heating systems do people recommend with these, combi- boilers seem to have rave reviews online however i don't know how much work is involved in replacing a traditional system , i have a gas boiler "Potterton Suprima 50L D rated ". i wondering would i see a big benefit in replacing this with a combi boiler and nest control

Shefwedfan

john_doe. wrote: »

seem to be coming across the same when reviewing TRV's the smart ones with wireless control are very expensive like tado.

the climote seems interesting, does it come with independent control for water heater and gas , the nest 3 and hive seem to have this.

the only concern i have is how long independent companies like climote will stick around with Nest gaining in popularity.

what kind of heating systems do people recommend with these, combi- boilers seem to have rave reviews online however i don't know how much work is involved in replacing a traditional system , i have a gas boiler "Potterton Suprima 50L D rated ". i wondering would i see a big benefit in replacing this with a combi boiler and nest control

Climote is Irish company and has got a lot of backing locally, with the likes of Electric Ireland and Airtricity but also investment from UK. I would hope they continue to improve

Dont know much about combi boiler. I looked at one in last house and plumber told me to stay a million miles away. They are just used in flats and there life span is shocking.

He said better to let the boiler heat the house, work out how to set the tap in immersion tank to heat water off boiler and then use immersion for everything else. Also make sure to replace immersion tank with high efficiency one.

No idea if correct or not but I took his advice and never had any issues...

After a quick google I seen a few mentions of life span been a lot shorter of combi boilers

Interesting101

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The grant option I have found is a pure scam. Most of the time it ends up costing you more than paying cash. I have done up 2 houses( in process of doing up one now), both times I wanted to do all the grants etc but after all the pricing I have found it costs way too much to use the grant scheme.

Sign up for deal with free controls upgrade and then just price around for TRV's. Ask them to break out cost of TRV and installation. Then buy the TRV's yourself and get them to install. You will find the plumbers are adding on premium for picking up the TRV's

Thanks for that...Thats the impression i got aswell.
Will get a few quotes and see how it pans out.

Dtp1979

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure if that is directed to me?

If so I am not sure, I read a good few articles online and there is arguments for and against them. I didn't see OP said he wasn't using some of the rooms so in this case they might be ideal as he can set them to only come on if freezing etc.

Just to careful with plumbers as they are rip off merchants when installing....

Ye that's right. Tar them all with the same brush. Same as hapless diyers chancing there arms are all useless gits who think they know more than trained professionals

listermint

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure if that is directed to me?

If so I am not sure, I read a good few articles online and there is arguments for and against them. I didn't see OP said he wasn't using some of the rooms so in this case they might be ideal as he can set them to only come on if freezing etc.

Just to careful with plumbers as they are rip off merchants when installing....

So basically the house you are in had them already and they were most likely setup correctly when you got there. So when you rocked up and added the Climote you then had the ideal setup.

Therefore your assumption is that TRVs are useless.


Hardly scientific now is it...

Dtp1979

Op go the grant route if you can. Yes it does work out a more expensive job but you'll get the work carried out to a better standard and the system is more efficient at the end of the day. The cheaper option is nearly always going to come back to bite you in the arse.

Shefwedfan

listermint wrote: »

So basically the house you are in had them already and they were most likely setup correctly when you got there. So when you rocked up and added the Climote you then had the ideal setup.

Therefore your assumption is that TRVs are useless.


Hardly scientific now is it...

Great advice to the question there.

Basically you are wrong, to explain, I bought a house with little insulation and old oil heating system. I stripped the house to the bare walls, re-wired, new boiler, interior walls insulated, new heating system, replaced all rad's, underfloor insulation etc etc etc

The plumber never mentioned when doing the job he was putting all TRV's onto the new rads and I never thought to ask. I was about to sell the house and seen for the BER that installing TRV's would increase the rating. Checked to see about getting installed and random pricing ranged from 200-400 to install them as I mentioned in previous post. It was only after getting the quote to send on pictures I realized I already had them.

So yes I had the ideal setup which I done myself

To answer the question the OP asked I did point out that there is different opinions on if there is any advantage of having TRV's installed. Quick google and you will find them yourself....

The way plumbers go on about them you would swear your life will change with them installed. Afraid to say it won't

Do you rate TRV's? If so why not post some information on why....would love to hear

Shefwedfan

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ye that's right. Tar them all with the same brush. Same as hapless diyers chancing there arms are all useless gits who think they know more than trained professionals

I don't tar them all with same brush.....just a friendly warning to OP if they are getting TRV's installed to price around

Dtp1979

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Great advice to the question there.

Basically you are wrong, to explain, I bought a house with little insulation and old oil heating system. I stripped the house to the bare walls, re-wired, new boiler, interior walls insulated, new heating system, replaced all rad's, underfloor insulation etc etc etc

The plumber never mentioned when doing the job he was putting all TRV's onto the new rads and I never thought to ask. I was about to sell the house and seen for the BER that installing TRV's would increase the rating. Checked to see about getting installed and random pricing ranged from 200-400 to install them as I mentioned in previous post. It was only after getting the quote to send on pictures I realized I already had them.

So yes I had the ideal setup which I done myself

To answer the question the OP asked I did point out that there is different opinions on if there is any advantage of having TRV's installed. Quick google and you will find them yourself....

The way plumbers go on about them you would swear your life will change with them installed. Afraid to say it won't

Do you rate TRV's? If so why not post some information on why....would love to hear

Yes I rate them.
No they won't change your life but they will make your system more efficient. I don't think it really needs explaining as their function is really simple. They will save you some money. So will a new Boiler. So will heating controls, a rated cylinders, a rated pumps and pipe lagging, weather comp. these are all small percentages but they don't be long adding up.

Dtp1979

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't tar them all with same brush.....just a friendly warning to OP if they are getting TRV's installed to price around

As long as the op gets prices for the exact same product then yes, price around

Shefwedfan

Dtp1979 wrote: »

As long as the op gets prices for the exact same product then yes, price around

Would you not post recommendation then? I did post options to the OP which had cheap and expensive options. I have no idea which is better/worse and I did say that to OP.....

Dtp1979

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Would you not post recommendation then? I did post options to the OP which had cheap and expensive options. I have no idea which is better/worse and I did say that to OP.....

I did. I told op to go the grant route

Shefwedfan

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I did. I told op to go the grant route

The grant route just means the trades person over inflates the price of everything so the money you are supposed to save with the grant is just pocketed by trades person

Who wins? Government as it is on the books and the trades person because they over charge

Who loses? Well of course the customer...

The OP was for a new control system which if they play there cards right can get install for free as part of fuel/electric contract

Then the TRV which may be useful but they should be able to get reliable plumber to install fairly cheaply....100-200 euro hopefully

Grant route and it will be a couple of k and at the end of it any potential saving they might of had will be gobbled up in a big bill

Better off spending that few k on insulation

Dtp1979

Why would the plumber over inflate the cost? That's nonsense. The job will cost more because it's a higher spec of work but it is also a better job end of the day

Shefwedfan

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Why would the plumber over inflate the cost? That's nonsense. The job will cost more because it's a higher spec of work but it is also a better job end of the day

The higher spec of work is bulls**t.......

Anyway the thread is going off track. We can start a thread and discuss the disaster that is the "grant" scheme

The best route I see for what the OP wants is to get the free controls and then install TRV's....spend any extra cash on insulation, Insulation is King.....:D

Wearb

The grant scheme is the best way for a non plumbing savvy person to get it done.
Lots of people just ask for quotes for heating controls without any specifics and go with the cheapest quote. They then go around rubbishing the installer because they didn't get an singing and dancing system.
The grant way gaurantees a minimum standard and keeps the cash cowboy out of the loop. That way you get a better job done by someone who is contributing to the state and has proper qualifications.

rolion

I see this question popping up many times in the context here.
A controller by means of a thermostat is not a proper controller of the system !

I had the "mr controller" downstairs. It was nice and warm but upstairs was like a sauna.
I move it "mr controller" upstairs. It was much better in the bedrooms but wet and cold downstairs.

Did my homework and found these HERE.
No "Mr Controller" can separate the rooms in individual zones !

I can have warm d/stairs while sleeping upstairs or i can have nice d/stairs and close the heat upstairs day time.
I can have 5 time slots as my skin pleasures... warm upstairs,cool at wake-up and warm-up d/stairs in the morning !
PER ROOM not by whole house !

And,if i have to believe my last gas bill... it came €80 less !

There are tons of YouTube clips describing how they works,installation and so on.

For example,last night settings:

Interesting101

[quote="rolion;102453781

Did my homework and found these HERE.
No "Mr Controller" can separate the rooms in individual e]

Thanks for that ...any idea all in supply and fitted what it set you back ??

Also you mention last bill around 80....Approx how many hrs / days a week would you have heating on ???

cruiser202006

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The grant route just means the trades person over inflates the price of everything so the money you are supposed to save with the grant is just pocketed by trades person

Who wins? Government as it is on the books and the trades person because they over charge

Who loses? Well of course the customer...

The OP was for a new control system which if they play there cards right can get install for free as part of fuel/electric contract

Then the TRV which may be useful but they should be able to get reliable plumber to install fairly cheaply....100-200 euro hopefully

Grant route and it will be a couple of k and at the end of it any potential saving they might of had will be gobbled up in a big bill

Better off spending that few k on insulation

This is true with certain companies who have contracts with certain utility company's but generally doesn't cost more through the grant. Zoning controls cost the same wether through the grant or not. Only extra thing with the grant is electrical bonding which should be done anyway. If it's far cheaper not to go through the grant then it's prob not being done properly and the taxman isn't seeing his share. Trv's are worthwhile to keep rooms not controlled by the wall stats at a comfortable temperature. Plus I don't think your the right person to be giving advise on them if you didn't even know you had them