Milk repacer - recommendations and price/ltr

Base price

As most of ye know I rear a few dairy bull calves every year.
Never had a problem with the milk replacer that we used for many years until last season when we had a problem with calves bloating after been fed. I posted the problems we had at the time here on F&F.
TBH we spent more time administering doses of bread soda/Milk of Magnesia/ sticking needles in calves to relieve the gasses and several visits to the Vet.
I'm thinking of switching to a skim milk replacer. Sam K has been recommending skim for ever
Any recommendations on prices - per litre mixed/ton delivered - payment on the day.

tanko

There's a comparison of different milk replacers on page 55 of today's journal.

whelan2

pm sent

Base price

tanko wrote: »

There's a comparison of different milk replacers on page 55 of today's journal.

Haven't got the opportunity head into town and buy the Journal this week as I'm suffering from a cnut of a dose/cough.
Does the comparison include the % protein, fat and vit's contained and the source of milk protein - skim/whey and what percentage and what form does the vegetable top ups include?.

tanko

.

Sam Kade

Base price wrote: »

As most of ye know I rear a few dairy bull calves every year.
Never had a problem with the milk replacer that we used for many years until last season when we had a problem with calves bloating after been fed. I posted the problems we had at the time here on F&F.
TBH we spent more time administering doses of bread soda/Milk of Magnesia/ sticking needles in calves to relieve the gasses and several visits to the Vet.
I'm thinking of switching to a skim milk replacer. Sam K has been recommending skim for ever
Any recommendations on prices - per litre mixed/ton delivered - payment on the day.

Last time I bought skim replacer was 2013 it cost around €50/bag I'm sure. I read on a website a few years back where a farmer in NZ was rearing lambs on milk replacer and he had the same problem the lambs were getting bloat from it. He solved the problem when a vet told him to make yogurt out of the milk. http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwizj9WN4ODRAhUEK8AKHbpZCKwQFgg0MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ceresfarm.co.nz%2Fabomasalbloat.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHOUNP671_DZpgjxJXymDVUz0r6bA&bvm=bv.145063293,d.ZGg

Base price

tanko wrote: »

.

Thanks tanko. I will have a look at the figures tomorrow.

hedgebury

i have bought a pallet of volac blossom of star fuels clonmel for 39 euro a bag

alps

The quoted prices are RRP and can be beaten. Worth shopping around and paying "this year's price increase" is not necessary.

3 types of skim I would suggest looking at

Milkivit Professional from Trouw nuitrition
24%prote in
20%fat
0.03% fibre
25%skim

Vitalac Blue from Agritech Nenagh
24% protein
20% fat
0.1 %fibre
15% skim

Shine OAD from bonanza
20% protein
15% fat
0.02% fibre
Don't know skim inclusion

The Shine product is a well backed product by many here on boards, but unusually lower in constituents than the others.

The higher fiber rates are an indication of higher inclusion of vegetable proteins, which is a bad thing. From what I read fibre figures should be below 0.1%, especially for calves under 3 weeks of age. If there is to be a vegetable protein included, make sure it's wheat based and definitely not soya.

We've had bloat problems in the past, with a very high protein/low fat product fed at 150g/l mix rate. Moving this year to one of the above, so as to include skim, ano also to raise the fat content. We feel the environmental temperatures fluctuate too much for the amount of fat we are giving to the calves, and it seems nonsensical that the industry advise to counter these fluctuations is calf jackets....???

Give them a fat cover instead..

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

The quoted prices are RRP and can be beaten. Worth shopping around and paying "this year's price increase" is not necessary.

3 types of skim I would suggest looking at

Milkivit Professional from Trouw nuitrition
24%prote in
20%fat
0.03% fibre
25%skim

Vitalac Blue from Agritech Nenagh
24% protein
20% fat
0.1 %fibre
15% skim

Shine OAD from bonanza
20% protein
15% fat
0.02% fibre
Don't know skim inclusion

The Shine product is a well backed product by many here on boards, but unusually lower in constituents than the others.

The higher fiber rates are an indication of higher inclusion of vegetable proteins, which is a bad thing. From what I read fibre figures should be below 0.1%, especially for calves under 3 weeks of age. If there is to be a vegetable protein included, make sure it's wheat based and definitely not soya.

We've had bloat problems in the past, with a very high protein/low fat product fed at 150g/l mix rate. Moving this year to one of the above, so as to include skim, ano also to raise the fat content. We feel the environmental temperatures fluctuate too much for the amount of fat we are giving to the calves, and it seems nonsensical that the industry advise to counter these fluctuations is calf jackets....???

Give them a fat cover instead..

Good post, alps.

Just one thing, I was at a Dairymaster talk on Automatic calf feeders and one of the reps recommended using a lower protein/higher fat milk replacer for fattening calves to get fat covers up before sale and using a lower fat/higher protein milk replacer for dairy calves to grow their frame and lay down milk production tissues without an excess of fat in them.

So I reckon a lower protein/higher fat replacer would suit Base better?

alps

Just looking through FJ table of milk replacers. The Dairygold Prime Elite 25 is a new product, formulated to resemble the Heiferlac product, but the fibre content is incorrectly quoted in the table. Went through the product specifications on most of the above products and the Prime Elite 25 test pack we received has this product at 0.15%, which was well outside our tolerance for use.

It's amazing the range of offering in powders this year. It really must be a phenomenonly lucrative market.

alps

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Good post, alps.

Just one thing, I was at a Dairymaster talk on Automatic calf feeders and one of the reps recommended using a lower protein/higher fat milk replacer for fattening calves to get fat covers up before sale and using a lower fat/higher protein milk replacer for dairy calves to grow their frame and lay down milk production tissues without an excess of fat in them.

So I reckon a lower protein/higher fat replacer would suit Base better?

Fully agree,

The whole area of formulations is very confusing. Each and every supplier has research studies to show that their offering has proven better than the opposition. So whatever decision you come to, there is research to back your decision. It gets further complicated when assumptions are made, and there are many if these intertwined in the research. The reasons given for low fat inclusion range from increasing concentrate intake to preventing lay down of fat in the udder. Be careful in your assessment of what is research and what is assumed.
The companies manufacturing CMR's must be able to make a profit from it. They must be able to buy in milk powders at market price, remove some of the value, restructure it, and sell it out at a profit because of the value that has been removed. So what has been removed? Is it the fat? The fat is already very low in wmp and smp. All CMRs use vegetable oils as fat. Where is their twist?

We then need to fool the calf's system into operating to full potential while feeding it a product nuitritionally quiet different to what nature would have intended. The farmers is for sure concerned about this difference but the sales pitch is that the resultant milking cow will be better having been fed the lower fat content powder.

But is the lower fat so as to increase performance, or to enable the manufacturer to make a profit?

yosemitesam1

alps wrote: »

Fully agree,

The whole area of formulations is very confusing. Each and every supplier has research studies to show that their offering has proven better than the opposition. So whatever decision you come to, there is research to back your decision. It gets further complicated when assumptions are made, and there are many if these intertwined in the research. The reasons given for low fat inclusion range from increasing concentrate intake to preventing lay down of fat in the udder. Be careful in your assessment of what is research and what is assumed.
The companies manufacturing CMR's must be able to make a profit from it. They must be able to buy in milk powders at market price, remove some of the value, restructure it, and sell it out at a profit because of the value that has been removed. So what has been removed? Is it the fat? The fat is already very low in wmp and smp. All CMRs use vegetable oils as fat. Where is their twist?

We then need to fool the calf's system into operating to full potential while feeding it a product nuitritionally quiet different to what nature would have intended. The farmers is for sure concerned about this difference but the sales pitch is that the resultant milking cow will be better having been fed the lower fat content powder.

But is the lower fat so as to increase performance, or to enable the manufacturer to make a profit?

I wonder would they be better off without the higher rate of the vegetable oil, they'd only have a fairly low amount of polyunsaturated fats in milk and even when mature only a small amount makes it out of the rumen.

Base price

The more I research about various milk replacers the more confused I get
I was talking to our supplier and am thinking of going with their skim based powder 22p, 15f with 30% skim powder included. I don't know what % of fibre or oil yet as I waiting to get the print out of the ingredients. Cost is 2.7c/l more than last years product (per ton delivered) but supplier is crunching the numbers and is to get back to me with a discounted figure.

Keepgrowing

Base price wrote: »

The more I research about various milk replacers the more confused I get
I was talking to our supplier and am thinking of going with their skim based powder 22p, 15f with 30% skim powder included. I don't know what % of fibre or oil yet as I waiting to get the print out of the ingredients. Cost is 2.7c/l more than last years product (per ton delivered) but supplier is crunching the numbers and is to get back to me with a discounted figure.

In order to compare price do we need to agree how many grams of powder per litre/calf.
We get up to 800 here with calves and start at 300.

Base price

Keepgrowing wrote: »

In order to compare price do we need to agree how many grams of powder per litre/calf.
We get up to 800 here with calves and start at 300.

KG remember I'm rearing FR bull calves, not replacement heifers so my requirements will differ (to an extent) to dairy farmers.
Start with 125g/l tad 1 to 1.5l per feed up to 18 days. Depending on the calf and how they are doing we pick off the weaker ones and move them into a separate batch. We then switch the stronger batches gradually to oad over about 5 days increasing the powder from 125g to 200g. Calf crunch, barley straw and hay are offered ad-lib from day one.
Edit: when the arrive here they get glucose, salt, breadsoda electrolytes for their first feed.

mahoney_j

Base price wrote: »

KG remember I'm rearing FR bull calves, not replacement heifers so my requirements will differ (to an extent) to dairy farmers.
Start with 125g/l tad 1 to 1.5l per feed up to 18 days. Depending on the calf and how they are doing we pick off the weaker ones and move them into a separate batch. We then switch the stronger batches gradually to oad over about 5 days increasing the powder from 125g to 200g. Calf crunch, barley straw and hay are offered ad-lib from day one.
Edit: when the arrive here they get glucose, salt, breadsoda electrolytes for their first feed.

No matter what type calf the cheapest and most efficient time to put weight on calves is first 10/12 weeks ,get that right and your well on road .feeding oad and at high rates is a no brainer .

Base price

mahoney_j wrote: »

No matter what type calf the cheapest and most efficient time to put weight on calves is first 10/12 weeks ,get that right and your well on road .feeding oad and at high rates is a no brainer .

TBH I doubt it. In my experience it doesn't pay to feed (bulls) higher rates of cmr unless your in mainland Europe and those calves are been fed for veal.