COMMON SENSE PREVAILS - 50,000 apprenticeships on the way

moneymad

There's an interview with Richard Bruton in 5 minutes on newstalk.

Ireland to follow the German and Finish model by offering students who don't want
to get to college after the leaving cert to be given opportunities in areas such as finance, accounting etc. Delighted for the youth of Ireland.

jimgoose

About sodding time.

KungPao

They should make it into a TV show, having Burton shout "You're Fired!" or "Back to the dole queue!" to the people who just don't quite make the grade.

Fr_Dougal

#ApprenticeBridge

dundalkfc10

€188 a week plus €50 extra

Jobsbridge Mark 2

tonycascarino

So why should someone go to college and get a degree in Accounting or Finance, when people are going to get apprenticeships/employment just by doing the leaving cert?


*is this just a jobbridge 2 or what is the story???

BattleCorp

I can't see apprenticeships in accounting or finance. It'll probably be the building/mechanic trades like it was in the 80's and 90's.

Sleepy

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

€188 a week plus €50 extra

Jobsbridge Mark 2

I don't know about you but I'd have been delighted if the government had offered to pay me €238 a week when I was in college.

KungPao

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't see apprenticeships in accounting or finance. It'll probably be the building/mechanic trades like it was in the 80's and 90's.

Something like Apprentice General Operative in a bleak west Dublin warehouse is my bet. Sure that's great experience.

hytrogen

tonycascarino wrote:

So why should someone go to college and get a degree in Accounting or Finance, when people are going to get apprenticeships/employment just by doing the leaving cert?

Because full time third level edumacation :P isn't for everyone and we do have a severe lack of an unskilled labourforce crisis at the minute.

Red Kev

If it's done properly it will be a success, but they must learn from mistakes of the past and any abuses must be dealt with swifly and preferably with an iron fist. I know a couple of lads in apprenticeships, some are going very well, other employers are taking the mick by delaying their exams etc. This needs to be stopped.

Employers also need to make a contribution, certainly after the first year. The employer should also be certified to be capable of doing an apprenticeship and not some cowboy or backstreet chancer. The guild system needs to be looked at properly for this.

I lived in Germany for a good while and apprenticeships have their value there, but it's a well respected, and little abused path. It certainly beats "going to college" for the sake of it.

i hope it works, isn't abused and becomes an occupational path for many. But learn from history.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Might discourage people from taking on some of the no job prospect fluff degrees. Get them into the workforce earlier and help broaden our tax base.

dundalkfc10

Sleepy wrote: »

I don't know about you but I'd have been delighted if the government had offered to pay me €238 a week when I was in college.

I just got a job and earned double that, which anyone could! Call Centres/Shops etc... all pay alot more than 238 a week

moneymad

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't see apprenticeships in accounting or finance. It'll probably be the building/mechanic trades like it was in the 80's and 90's.

Yes there will be. On the job training accounts for most of the tasks you perform daily. I've seen this myself. New employee starts, staff sit with the new employee for a few weeks getting them trained up. Plenty of staff in finance get their certs while on the job.

Cina

Having 50,000 more people on the highest social welfare scheme in the world is a great idea.

benjamin d

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I just got a job and earned double that, which anyone could! Call Centres/Shops etc... all pay alot more than 238 a week

And how's that developing a career?
An apprenticeship isn't just free labour, you're learning a trade.

meeeeh

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

€188 a week plus €50 extra

Jobsbridge Mark 2

Rates get higher after first and second phase. We find apprenticeships great because you actually train them in but there is no point treating them like vegetables and taking them on to sweep the yard.

BattleCorp

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I just got a job and earned double that, which anyone could! Call Centres/Shops etc... all pay alot more than 238 a week

When I was younger lots of my mates were like you. They spurned the low wage apprenticeships in favour of call centres/shops etc.

The thing is though, four years later the apprentices were qualified and their wages skyrocketed. Their wages were two or even three times greater than those in shops and call centres.

titan18

Can't see this working, it'll be exploited by doing it for sh1te roles to get cheaper labour (ala Jobsbridge). I mean why would someone take someone for an accounting, IT role etc with no qualifications at all over someone with qualifications for the same position.

Guaranteed some of these "apprenticeships" will be with Dunnes Stores, Tesco, etc.

tonycascarino

titan18 wrote: »

Can't see this working, it'll be exploited by doing it for sh1te roles to get cheaper labour (ala Jobsbridge). I mean why would someone take someone for an accounting, IT role etc with no qualifications at all over someone with qualifications for the same position.

Agreed, makes zero sense. No way an employer would ever choose someone who only did the leaving cert over someone who has a degree in that specific field ie. IT, Accounting etc.

posturingpat

Sleepy wrote: »

I don't know about you but I'd have been delighted if the government had offered to pay me €238 a week when I was in college.

Would've lived like a king

Galwayguy35

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I just got a job and earned double that, which anyone could! Call Centres/Shops etc... all pay alot more than 238 a week

Nobody ever earns big money as an apprentice, but at the end of the apprenticeship with a skill to their name they will be making a lot more than you.

meeeeh

tonycascarino wrote: »

Agreed, makes zero sense. No way an employer would ever choose someone who only did the leaving cert over someone who has a degree in that specific field ie. IT, Accounting etc.

Yeah that's why German manufacturing is ****e and their industry so small. Apprenticeship is not working for them at all.

bodhrandude

Is this the thread about trivial annoyances of the internet?

Liam McPoyle

The company I work for (insurance company) have 3 apprentices in, one in my department.

He is only a pup, will have a recognised qualification at the end of it, he's getting paid for it and getting real world on the job expenience.

Its bloody brilliant tbh.

Of course it will only be as good as the company that offer the jobs but once the piss isn't taken like the job bridge then there is no reason why it can't be a roaring success.

Shenshen

Well, if they do actually follow the German system, it'll be a dual-approach. Work 4 days a week at the company, and have classes 1 day a week. There'll be scheduled exams and a final full exam resulting an a recognised qualification.

Doing it without this framework would indeed leave it open to all sorts of abuse and be utterly pointless.

meeeeh

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, if they do actually follow the German system, it's be a dual-approach. Work 4 days a week at the company, and have classes 1 day a week. There'll be scheduled exams and a final full exam resulting an a recognised qualification.

Doing it without this framework would indeed leave it open to all sorts of abuse and be utterly pointless.

There already is framework for certain professions. Ours spend part of the year at work and then part of the year going to the college. We did take on an apprentice that lost his previous placement because the employer did not have the right work and equipment for him. We got couple of inspections to see everything is ok.

I think anyone who saw finish in houses on the continent, plastering, tiling, carpentry would know there is serious need for apprentice based education. Similarly for other trades. There is need for better mechanics and so on. Not everyone is suited to work in IT and it's time education system teaches the skills that are badly needed but don't require university education.

eeguy

meeeeh wrote: »

Not everyone is suited to work in IT and it's time education system teaches the skills that are badly needed but don't require university education.

Exactly! Too many people pushed into colleges when it's not for them and too many doing nothing because apprenticeships aren't available.

Tombi!

I think it would be good. Depends on the sectors. IT support would ideally get you your CompTIA stuff and on the job experience.
Accounts would be the same with their exams, etc.

It could work really well. Give them 200 quid a week, 3-4 days at work, a day in a college, a year or two and you've got experience and your education

L1011

Badly badly needed in IT, if they are sensible enough to offer it. "Computer Science" courses churn out mediocre programmers who then try get in to ops and get uppity when they're being paid the same or less as someone 4 years younger with a FETAC course or nothing who is actually better at the job than them.

Pretty sure there's other sectors out there where the drive for everyone to have a degree has had seriously negative effects. Would be much better for 16 year olds to get real practical training rather than be droned at about maths and Haskell when they had zero intention of being a computer scientist and then having to get it crammed in to them by some call centre trainer at 23 with their hopes and dreams squashed.

somefeen

Haven't we had apprenticeships for yonks?

There is only going to be 13 new apprenticeships added to what we have already in the "Financial services, polymer and life science areas"
It's all well and good having apprenticeships as long as they are actual proper trades that need to be learned over the course of a few years to do them effectively. One of the latest ones, "Insurance Practicioner" makes me think they're not really thinking this through.
Too many apprenticeships gives you what the UK has which is complete bollocks. You can do apprenticeship there to become a 'recruitment consultant' or 'fashion studio assistant' I think there's a few for "XYZ operative" as well.

I just feel it cheapens the qualification somewhat when Aircraft Engineer is an apprenticeship but so is Puppet Maker.

And they'll probably do what they did before and give an incentive to enter certain sectors. Back in the Celtic Tiger the first year apprentice rate for a building trade like, electrician or carpenter was 1.5 times for other sectors. I remember apprentice mechanics getting around 160 a week whereas their colleagues in the building trades were getting 210+.
Que a load of lads that were hopeless electricians but could have been decent mechanics failing their exams at the last hurdle (you got three shots and that was it) and giving up on a trade altogether because they went were the money was.