Just had a claim against me settled..

trixiebust

As the title says, letter arrived today. Other party awarded € 45 k ( a back injury !! ). The total amount paid so far is € 52 k, that's not including all legal bills. Which also included the High Court in Cork. This is ridiculous, but rant over.

Is this a massive claim, in terms of renewing my insurance next year ? Currently pay €850 fully comp. Should I start saving for next year's renewal already :eek:

trixiebust

Anyone ??

Stheno

trixiebust wrote: »

Anyone ??

Did you have protected no claims? If not then expect a big hike

trixiebust

No, step back. Was 6+ years, no down to three.

ScouseMouse

I am in the same boat. Claim in for when the wife was driving. However, I am under the impression a protected NCB is not worth a crap.

Yes, the NCB gives you a discount on the premium, but there is nothing stopping the insurance company tripling the premium !

I will be following this thread with interest.

trixiebust

Accident happened in 2011, only got notification of settlement yesterday.

45 k awarded for a whiplash injury & loss of earnings. Absolute joke. Speed more than 10kph, 1st gear on a roundabout.

Liam McPoyle

trixiebust wrote: »

Accident happened in 2011, only got notification of settlement yesterday.

45 k awarded for a whiplash injury & loss of earnings. Absolute joke. Speed more than 10kph, 1st gear on a roundabout.

That is the world we live in.

That is the main reason insurance has spiked.

People can blame the insurers all they want but at the end of the day personal accountability has to be taken.

Of course real injuries should rightly be compensated, thats why we buy insurance but I'd be very confident that the majority of the whiplash claims are either false or very much exaggerated.

I read an article during the week from a member of the GAA, they were talking about the spike in their own insurance premiums and the rise in public liability claims.

So that's motor insurance that has substantially increased, along with insurance for places that have a large footfall of the public such as football grounds, pubs and shops.

Has the nation suddenly become clumsier?

Or have people suddenly become unluckier that they as having more trips and falls?

Or is it a case that alot of people see anything to do with insurance as the opportunity to get a nice fat payout?

Now I'm not a scientician but I'd be fairly comfortable in betting the farm on number 3.

Still though, its the gouging fat cats in insurance HQ that are to blame.

listermint

Rod Munch wrote: »

That is the world we live in.

That is the main reason insurance has spiked.

People can blame the insurers all they want but at the end of the day personal accountability has to be taken.

Of course real injuries should rightly be compensated, thats why we buy insurance but I'd be very confident that the majority of the whiplash claims are either false or very much exaggerated.

I read an article during the week from a member of the GAA, they were talking about the spike in their own insurance premiums and the rise in public liability claims.

So that's motor insurance that has substantially increased, along with insurance for places that have a large footfall of the public such as football grounds, pubs and shops.

Has the nation suddenly become clumsier?

Or have people suddenly become unluckier that they as having more trips and falls?

Or is it a case that alot of people see anything to do with insurance as the opportunity to get a nice fat payout?

Now I'm not a scientician but I'd be fairly comfortable in betting the farm on number 3.

Still though, its the gouging fat cats in insurance HQ that are to blame.

2 people to blame here

1- The Insurance industry for happily facilitating payouts, setting bench marks of what they were happy to pay. i.e acceptable loses. And not pursuing down claimants more aggressively.

2- The Judiciary this people need to be given clearer guidelines on what is acceptable payout levels as presently they are picking figures out of the sky.

BlinkingLights

They really urgently need to get realistic about this as we will end up in a situation where driving will become something we won't be able to afford to do.

Back in 2008 the European Commission in particular was very critical of Ireland's legal costs, yet it was just completely ignored by the state, while they went after things like water charges which weren't even mentioned at all, and blamed those on the EU.

Kalimah

trixiebust wrote: »

Accident happened in 2011, only got notification of settlement yesterday.

45 k awarded for a whiplash injury & loss of earnings. Absolute joke. Speed more than 10kph, 1st gear on a roundabout.

And there was me thinking you must have nearly crippled them for that kind of payout! Reminds me of a post I read here recently where a poster bemoaned the seemingly genetic weakness of Irish necks.

Mind you that sort of rubbish has been going on for years. I have an acquaintance who got 10k about 25 years ago for much the same thing. Once the court award came through there wasn't a mention of the neck. I was rear ended myself about 20 years ago- the car was in bits - but I never claimed for myself as I wasn't injured. I've had the odd fall in a supermarket- once on a squashed mushroom! I picked myself up and hoped to God no one saw it!
Fed up with chancers

Barr

trixiebust wrote: »

Accident happened in 2011, only got notification of settlement yesterday.

45 k awarded for a whiplash injury & loss of earnings. Absolute joke. Speed more than 10kph, 1st gear on a roundabout.

As it happened in 2011 , you probably have your bonus built back up already ,so there will not be any change to your renewal for this claim.

mbradso2003

53K claim against me for a 'bump' loading of 1,300 on top of my insurance.. feel your pain OP..

hullaballoo

Rod Munch wrote: »

That is the world we live in.

That is the main reason insurance has spiked.

People can blame the insurers all they want but at the end of the day personal accountability has to be taken.

Of course real injuries should rightly be compensated, thats why we buy insurance but I'd be very confident that the majority of the whiplash claims are either false or very much exaggerated.

I read an article during the week from a member of the GAA, they were talking about the spike in their own insurance premiums and the rise in public liability claims.

So that's motor insurance that has substantially increased, along with insurance for places that have a large footfall of the public such as football grounds, pubs and shops.

Has the nation suddenly become clumsier?

Or have people suddenly become unluckier that they as having more trips and falls?

Or is it a case that alot of people see anything to do with insurance as the opportunity to get a nice fat payout?

Now I'm not a scientician but I'd be fairly comfortable in betting the farm on number 3.

Still though, its the gouging fat cats in insurance HQ that are to blame.

:rolleyes:

This again.

It's not true. Claims are static. Costs are reducing.

Insurance companies fukkered themselves through mismanagement and now the customers are bailing them out.

Here is a pictorial representation of insurance companies operating within the EU in the past decade:

NUTLEY BOY

Remember insurance companies campaigning for the abolition of juries in most personal injuries cases ? 1980s ? They succeeded. What happened to damages after that ? They went up - very steeply. Who did that then ?

Ultimately, if all parties know that a case will secure € X in court well that is where the authority to demand high damages lies.

So, if the courts keep awarding high levels of damages that has to be funded from somewhere. Ireland is a small country with a limited size pool of risk.
High damages funded by a small risk pool = high premiums.

cruizer101

On of the other issues I see is that the money is paid out as a cash lump sum, fair enough loss of earning has to be paid that way but all medical expenses should be vouched. The money can be spent on medical care and nothing else.

This also touches of a bigger problem which is our two tier health case system. If we had a proper single tier system, you shouldn't need to pay out medical expenses. If someone is sick or injured they get taken of, regardless of circumstances.

NUTLEY BOY

cruizer101 wrote: »

On of the other issues I see is that the money is paid out as a cash lump sum, fair enough loss of earning has to be paid that way but all medical expenses should be vouched. The money can be spent on medical care and nothing else.

This also touches of a bigger problem which is our two tier health case system. If we had a proper single tier system, you shouldn't need to pay out medical expenses. If someone is sick or injured they get taken of, regardless of circumstances.

In most cases items of special damages have to be vouched if they are not being agreed between the parties.

Where some or all of the medical expenses have been paid by a health insurer there is usually a requirement to reimburse the health insurer's outlay from your damages - subrogation.

Otherwise, plaintiffs are virtually free to do what they like with their damages unless there are specific court orders directing that certain payments are made to certain parties.

trixiebust

Kalimah wrote:

And there was me thinking you must have nearly crippled them for that kind of payout! Reminds me of a post I read here recently where a poster bemoaned the seemingly genetic weakness of Irish necks.

mbradso2003 wrote:

53K claim against me for a 'bump' loading of 1,300 on top of my insurance.. feel your pain OP..

Sounds the same as me alright. Only damage done to her car, was the rear bumper. Small square cut out ( for towing I presume ).
This piece popped out, I pushed it back in. Zero car damage = 45 k. Someone's making these figures up.

trixiebust

This. I think if I walked in to a solicitor today, having being rear ended, he / she would know how much I could get.

If it's a small amount settle. If not, push for more, eventually taking a chance in court, for a bumper payday for everyone. Sickening.

hullaballoo

How much do you think a solicitor gets for a fully contested whiplash claim?

Liam McPoyle

trixiebust wrote: »

This. I think if I walked in to a solicitor today, having being rear ended, he / she would know how much I could get.

If it's a small amount settle. If not, push for more, eventually taking a chance in court, for a bumper payday for everyone. Sickening.

That's exactly it.

Claims farming (solicitors actively seeking out people that have been involved in accidents) is massive business in the UK and is creeping in over here. "No win no fee" firms are ten a penny.

I see claims reports on a near daily basis and some of the symptoms that people describe for their "injuries" are laughable.

It's gas, the ones that are genuine cases such as people with broken bones, that require surgery etc rarely suffer from nightmares or PTSD yet the ones that have no provable injuries ie soft tissue damages are terrified of driving or have nightmares due to the horrendous trauma they suffered after being tipped in bumper to bumper traffic.

I absolutely guarantee that if soft tissue damages that cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt were capped at a max of €5000, and if the legal fees were capped at a max of €500 per case then there would be a significant downturn in makey uppy claims.

As it stands if someone gets €15000 for whiplash you can add on another 30% to 40% solicitors fees on top of that.

€4000 to €5000 fee for a low impact claim, money for old rope tbh.

Between punitive damages, loss of earnings, medical expenses and legal fees a €15k payment ends up nearer a €30k cost to an insurer.

Pablo_

Can I ask the OP did he have same insurance since 2011.

I have recevived a small payout for my stolen and crashed car. But 7 people who quite clearly were in a staged crash so they can all claim are claiming from my insurance.

But I have to keep paying my premium, until case closes. Basically if this stays open the insurance company will make back their tiny payout to me by summer time.

I was told I CANNOT stop paying premium, as then it will be recorded as walking away from contract.

Seems wierd no? I am losing on all fronts basically. I was the victim of the crime after all.

trixiebust

Pablo_ wrote:

Can I ask the OP did he have same insurance since 2011.

Pablo_ wrote:

Can I ask the OP did he have same insurance since 2011.

Yes, with 123 before & after the accident. My insurance never rose dramatically since then though.

Just presuming now it's closed, I'll end up paying for it for the next few years. Not something I can afford, if I'm honest.

trixiebust

Rod Munch wrote:

Between punitive damages, loss of earnings, medical expenses and legal fees a €15k payment ends up nearer a €30k cost to an insurer.

Mines currently standing at 52k. That's not including the day at the High Court.

How does a soft tissue injury make it's way all the way to the High Court anyway?!!

readytosnap

OSI wrote: »

My brother got knocked off his bike last year and fractured his arm. Fracture wasn't even bad enough to require a cast and he didn't miss work as he's a student. He agreed with the driver to just pay for the repair of his bike, but she went incognito and ignored it, so the Gards got involved and it went to her insurer. Insurance instantly offered 25k. His solicitor urged him to push for more. F*****g ridiculous.

He would of been chancing his arm then?

I couldn't resist sorry.

I had ful ncb and stepback, small (compared to others in thread) claim from me for new engine (bogey fuel) they paid out 7k for new engine (old engine had less than 10k km) did not affect my premium. Don't know if that was because no persons were injured or what.

trixiebust

I got a copy of the injuries board report, which I still have. Love to post with the name redacted.

Some of the lines are laughable, it basically states a soft tissue injury, stress, anxiety, 3 to 6 months of recovery time. This is from a medical examiner, let's all ride the gravy train.

CarrickMcJoe

trixiebust wrote: »

Accident happened in 2011, only got notification of settlement yesterday.

45 k awarded for a whiplash injury & loss of earnings. Absolute joke. Speed more than 10kph, 1st gear on a roundabout.

Unfortunately some people find this way easier than trying to pick 6 numbers in the lotto!

pilly

Was this not listed as a claim when it happened though? Surely it would have been?

I had a small tip a while ago and it came up on my renewal even though it hadn't been settled.

Sleeper12

A friend of mine flipped a hi ace van about 30 years ago with 13 people inside. He was only covered for the 3 front seats. As the driver he was the only one that did not get to claim. All 13 claims that they were in the front.
Insurance paid out over quarter of a million punts. Biggest Irish claim at the time.
He's still driving today. It all balances out over time

ravima

I have recevived a small payout for my stolen and crashed car. But 7 people who quite clearly were in a staged crash so they can all claim are claiming from my insurance.

But I have to keep paying my premium, until case closes. Basically if this stays open the insurance company will make back their tiny payout to me by summer time.

I was told I CANNOT stop paying premium, as then it will be recorded as walking away from contract.

Seems wierd no? I am losing on all fronts basically. I was the victim of the crime after all.[/QUOTE]



Some questions arise here.

When was the accident?

If it was PRIOR to last renewal, then there is no truth to the allegation that you are'walking away' form the contract. If it was in the current year, then usually BEFORE your insurer would pay YOU, they would insist on the balance of the premium being paid if you are paying in installments.

trixiebust

pilly wrote: »

Was this not listed as a claim when it happened though? Surely it would have been?

I had a small tip a while ago and it came up on my renewal even though it hadn't been settled.

Never asked tbh. Insurance rose about € 100 from last year. Now € 850 ish fully comp. That's what's worrying me, it never went up. Now it's settled, am I fooked ??

Atlantic Dawn

I suppose at least it went to court, the majority of cases are settled without any proper questioning in a court of law.

Liam McPoyle

OSI wrote: »

My brother got knocked off his bike last year and fractured his arm. Fracture wasn't even bad enough to require a cast and he didn't miss work as he's a student. He agreed with the driver to just pay for the repair of his bike, but she went incognito and ignored it, so the Gards got involved and it went to her insurer. Insurance instantly offered 25k. His solicitor urged him to push for more. F*****g ridiculous.

If a car driver hits a pedestrian or cyclist (motorised or push) then 99 times out of 100 the car / van will be judged to be in the wrong so a quick settlement vs what your brother could potentially earn makes most sense. Claims like that are more or less indefensible.

Strange that a solicitor would suggest he go for even more, seemingly they arent ticks, they have the injured parties best interests at heart. Who else would defend the proletariat against the insurance cartel other than someone that had justice on their mind. The fact that a higher settlement figure = a higher slice for them doesn't factor at all.

Nosireebob.

trixiebust

Rod Munch wrote:

Strange that a solicitor would suggest he go for even more, seemingly they arent ticks, they have the injured parties best interests at heart. Who else would defend the proletariat against the insurance cartel other than someone that had justice on their mind. The fact that a higher settlement figure = a higher slice for them doesn't factor at all.

Strange one that Costs were also awarded against me, so this girl basically got a free claim against me.

Medical expenses, legal fees all reimbursed. And 45 k for a soft tissue injury & stress.
Everyone seems to have made a nice few Euro.

trixiebust

Just for the laugh I tried entering my details with claim amount settled etc. My current insurers ( 123 ), won't even quote a price. " We are unable to offer you a quote at this time ".

Think I'm in for some shock, next renewal.

Liam McPoyle

trixiebust wrote: »

Just for the laugh I tried entering my details with claim amount settled etc. My current insurers ( 123 ), won't even quote a price. " We are unable to offer you a quote at this time ".

Think I'm in for some shock, next renewal.

You will be able to move to another insurer if the claim is fully settled and you do not need to declare it to a new insurer as its more than 5 years since the incident.

trixiebust

Rod Munch wrote:

You will be able to move to another insurer if the claim is fully settled and you do not need to declare it to a new insurer as its more than 5 years since the incident.

Didn't know this. I can know tell an insurance company, I'm claim free?

It's from the date of accident, not settlement ? My insurance has not risen since it happened. Thought it hadn't, due to the claim not being settled.

Liam McPoyle

trixiebust wrote: »

Didn't know this. I can know tell an insurance company, I'm claim free?

It's from the date of accident, not settlement ? My insurance has not risen since it happened. Thought it hadn't, due to the claim not being settled.

Correct, it's the date of incident not the date of settlement so when asked "have you had any accidents or claims in the last 5 years" you can answer no (provided of course that you had no other incidents)

NUTLEY BOY

ravima wrote: »

I have recevived a small payout for my stolen and crashed car. But 7 people who quite clearly were in a staged crash so they can all claim are claiming from my insurance.

But I have to keep paying my premium, until case closes. Basically if this stays open the insurance company will make back their tiny payout to me by summer time.

I was told I CANNOT stop paying premium, as then it will be recorded as walking away from contract.

Seems wierd no? I am losing on all fronts basically. I was the victim of the crime after all.

A few thoughts ;

1. I cannot see any basis for the proposition that you must continue paying a premium until the case closes. This sounds like insurance company twaddle made up by some idiot who does not know what they are talking about.

I would view this as an issue of contract. If you paid your contractual consideration in the form of a premium they must provide their contractual consideration in the form of indemnity under the terms of the policy.

2. Insurance contracts are annual.

There is no obligation on either party to continue the contract beyond the next renewal date. The policy wording should provide the specific terms of cancellation rights including cancellation if a claim has occurred within the present period of insurance.

3. As far as the Spurious 7 go their claims should not constitute a claim against your policy or your insurance record / insurance history.

Your vehicle was stolen. (I assume this to have been an unauthorised taking as per S.112, RTA 1961 = theft to you and me). In these circumstances no legal liability should attach to you for the negligence of the driver of your vehicle.

However, my understanding of these situations has always been that if there was a current certificate of insurance in existence on the vehicle at the time of the accident the insurers who issued that certificate deal with the case as the insurers concerned under some agreement with the MIBI. This would not be a claim for indemnity against your policy or your insurance history. However, if this has changed somebody might jump in and put me right.

Pablo_

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

2. Insurance contracts are annual.

There is no obligation on either party to continue the contract beyond the next renewal date. The policy wording should provide the specific terms of cancellation rights including cancellation if a claim has occurred within the present period of insurance.

Thanks for your detailed reply.

It seems the insurance company is telling these chancers to 'sling their hook' which is a good update but I still seem to be paying my premium.

So referring to your quote above, yes i am inside the year of the contract i.e. renewal is April. But if my car is written off, and now gone, surely my contract is finished. Like if I sell a car, I ring my insurance and tell them cancel my insurance, no more about it. Are you saying I owe the years payments even if i have no car?

ED E

Rod Munch wrote: »

Strange that a solicitor would suggest he go for even more, seemingly they arent ticks, they have the injured parties best interests at heart. Who else would defend the proletariat against the insurance cartel other than someone that had justice on their mind. The fact that a higher settlement figure = a higher slice for them doesn't factor at all.

1. File PIAB(IB) documents on behalf of client
2. Wait
3. PIAB determine 50K (the insurers offers are always a big lowball to entice the claimant with instant cash)
4. Take cut for 20 mins work

You dont need a solicitor for the process, thats the point of it, but they convince joe soap they're required.

NUTLEY BOY

Pablo_ wrote: »

Thanks for your detailed reply.

It seems the insurance company is telling these chancers to 'sling their hook' which is a good update but I still seem to be paying my premium.

So referring to your quote above, yes i am inside the year of the contract i.e. renewal is April. But if my car is written off, and now gone, surely my contract is finished. Like if I sell a car, I ring my insurance and tell them cancel my insurance, no more about it. Are you saying I owe the years payments even if i have no car?

In the case of a write-off I would argue that the contract is now defunct because the subject matter of the insurance has been destroyed. The only exception to that might be if you substituted a new car on to the same policy.

If you sell your car my thought would be that your insurable interest in the vehicle ceases after you have transferred ownership to the new owner.

Pablo_

Your totally right Nutley Boy, When I present your argument to insurance company they say because they are dealing with the claims from the 'spurious 7' as you put it so well, my policy is still open.

Is there an 'adult' I can go to? :-) An ombusdman perhaps, I have asked solicitor friends but they not so sure. I am paying a premium which is basically me paying back the insurance company any money they gave me....It just seems absurd.

I'll go back over the contract if I can find it. I'll update on what happens

Liam McPoyle

Pablo_ wrote: »

Thanks for your detailed reply.

It seems the insurance company is telling these chancers to 'sling their hook' which is a good update but I still seem to be paying my premium.

So referring to your quote above, yes i am inside the year of the contract i.e. renewal is April. But if my car is written off, and now gone, surely my contract is finished. Like if I sell a car, I ring my insurance and tell them cancel my insurance, no more about it. Are you saying I owe the years payments even if i have no car?

Your insurer is wrong in telling you that you can't cancel your policy.

Even if there is an open claim, it is still your right to cancel a policy at any time once you give it to them in writing and return the policy cert and disc.

As there is an open claim you are not entitled to any premium return but you absolutely can cancel it.

Pablo_

So a small update;

I can't really cancel as it will be recorded as lapsing on an open claim, and I literally wont get insurance again. it happened my colleague, they moved abroad on an open claim and can't get insurance now hes back.

i have to keep paying my premium on a car that was stolen 3 months ago. I was told I will also be charged a lot extra when i finally save up for a new car and insure it, i will be applying as someone who has an open claim. Also, i can only get insured with this same company.

So.....Insurance defined in this situation: i pay money to a company to insure a non existent object, after the insurable object gets stolen, to pay for little runts to make a claim against my insurance for an incident that happened when it was stolen ?

If I don't pay, I don't get this privelege again !!!!

trixiebust

So, you've to keep insuring something you don't even own anymore. And still pay for it. Couldn't make it up.

Wish I knew who was getting rich from insurance, probably everyone but me at this stage. Serious money for very little effort.

honda boi

Wait!
So some little scums rob your car and crash it and can claim of your insurance? Wtf

Pablo_

Honda boi ... they crashed into their buddies in another car, and they claim. The investigators know them even by name...Its comical. There was a primetime show on these type of 'stings' lately I think. Who's worse, the insurance companies, the lawyers involved or the little f*ckers who see the loophole in the system

mikeoneilly

ScouseMouse wrote: »

I am in the same boat. Claim in for when the wife was driving. However, I am under the impression a protected NCB is not worth a crap.

Yes, the NCB gives you a discount on the premium, but there is nothing stopping the insurance company tripling the premium !

I will be following this thread with interest.

Can anyone clarify this one way or another?

Thanks