Gaming on a budget

_Kaiser_

Hey all,

So I'm seriously thinking of dropping a few quid (€500ish maybe) on a PC for myself to play some things like Civ, BF1 and some older strategy stuff like Supreme Commander. It's been a long time since I did any real gaming so advice appreciated

Yes I know that BF1 is going to be the killer there, but it doesn't have to be at ultra levels.. I'm not gonna spend 4/500 quid on a video card alone when I'll play the game maybe once/twice a week with some mates online

I'm also not averse to second hand sourcing via eBay or Adverts etc. Things like OS, RAM, HDD also not essential as I have lots of those parts too although I would prefer a branded box rather than a self-build... I had decent experiences with DELL XPSs and even a Precision back in the day for example.

As a starting point I'm thinking a 3rd gen i5/7 (or even a Xeon.. there's DELL Precision T1650 and T3600s going for 3-500 quid right now) with 8/16GB RAM and a mid-range NVidia card (open to ideas on model)? Will that handle the above at acceptable rates?

As I say, I'm not spending a fortune upfront.. all I want is a decent base that'll do things "well enough" for now and which I can still upgrade bits like the vid card as funds/needs arise.

What ye think? Is this possible with the above criteria?

Samuel T. Cogley

Gaming on that budget is entirely possible.

The 2nd (Sandy Bridge) and third gen (Ivy Bridge) are begining to bottleneck high end GPUs but for what you're looking at a cheap i7 2600K would be ideal. The problem is you don't see that many. There is a R9 290 on sale for 165 on adverts which is a steal too!

You can build a gaming rig now, better than a console (for grpahics at least) for 300 easily.

_Kaiser_

Cheers for the reply

What about something like this:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Dell-Precision-T1650-I5-3550-3-3GHz-8GB-250GB-DVDRW-Nvidia-Quad-2000-Win-10-/222367314254?hash=item33c61ff14e:g:jggAAOSwo4pYbQL9

It's an i5 yes but would that suffice or should I put the extra £100 into the i7 variant - eg:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Dell-Precision-T1650-Core-i7-3-4GHZ-Quad-core-8GB-128GB-SSD-Win-7-Pro-/222169038748?hash=item33ba4e7f9c:g:IdcAAOSwN81XNZ5o

Digital Solitude

I'd start with the i5 version, 3rd gen or newer i5s should keep you going for a couple of years at least

_Kaiser_

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I'd start with the i5 version, 3rd gen or newer i5s should keep you going for a couple of years at least

Cool.. the only issue then might be the PSU. What's the minimum these days for a mid-range video card? The lads keep telling me NVidia is more stable than AMD as well for the most part?

Digital Solitude

Nah, used to be the case but AMD have really closed the gap.

Generally if you'll be playing AAAs as they're released, nVidia is a better idea but if you tend to not pick up new games until they drop in price then it's either or, AMD cards tend to surpass nVidia over time as well as the cards are supported for longer.

Still get better temperatures in general with nVidia but that normally falls below power.

A good 400w PSU will push up to a 480 or 1060 level card, older cards require bigger PSUs but 500w will have you safely covered for all but high end or stupid hungry setups.

I don't know what the story with that Dell taking a GPU is, they tend to have proprietary connections so you can't add stuff onto them.

What's your thoughts on building? That or go for a second hand custom build

_Kaiser_

Possibly.. the branded option seems to all be around the €400/500 mark for a T3600 with a bigger PSU

What about this on adverts: http://www.adverts.ie/desktops/gaming-pc-i7-2600k-8gb-ram-2tb-hdd-free-graphics-card/12155374

Digital Solitude

That's a fairly good price, drop €170 or so on a RX470 and you're away with a great PC

_Kaiser_

Digital Solitude wrote: »

That's a fairly good price, drop €170 or so on a RX470 and you're away with a great PC

Only thing is Google reckons that's a 2nd gen i7. Would that not be a bad idea or would an upgraded GPU compensate?

Digital Solitude

2nd Gen indeed, but will still hold pace in almost all games. I'll try find a link for you.

Digital Solitude

m.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/13/kaby_lake_7700k_vs_sandy_bridge_2600k_ipc_review/1#.WH3cXFzCQuU

Wasn't expecting to find that so soon.

Basically, about a 20% difference between a 2700k and a 7700k (newest i7), but neither CPU will limit you to under 60fps in all but the stupidest games so it doesn't matter performance wise

minitrue

That's overclocking the 2600k up to the 7700K clockspeed taking it from 3.4GHz to 4.5GHz!

So if it's 80% at 4.5GHz it's about 60% at it's normal clock of 3.4GHz.

I was actually trying to find a i3-6100 Vs 2600K kind of comparison to see how a new "500 euro" build like the following would compare:

CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor (€67.80 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-D2V Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (€74.56 @ Mindfactory)
Memory: PNY Anarchy 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (€53.01 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon RX 480 4GB NITRO+ 4G Video Card (€225.65 @ Mindfactory)
Case: Antec NSK3100 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (€40.27 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (€53.84 @ Mindfactory)
Total: €515.13 Oops, should really have said initially for those going "500 euro", no drives But you could get one dropping to a rx470 instead of that fast rx480.

Digital Solitude

The Pentium isn't really comparable tbf, the i7 will be miles and miles ahead of any i3 or i5. While the 480 is going to be faster obviously I'd still take the i7 if I were OP, there's a bigger difference between a pentium/i3 and 470/480 at 1080p.

Look at the benchmarks in the link I posted and try find an i3 running similar games with a similar GPU if you want mini, but I'd be very surprised if the numbers were comparable.

*Edit* found a eurogamer review that suggests the i3 6100 is about 80% the speed of the 6700k, so I'm just going to sit the rest of this one out

minitrue

That new pentium is very close to the "old" i3-6100 and a steal really, hence I stuck with it and went fairly insane on the gpu

Just some sort of comparison point against a new build (which could take a new i5 or i7 down the road and wouldn't be maxed out old stuff with nowhere to go at purchase).

Likewise you can argue the dual channel ram or for using a cheaper H110 board etc

For some games the Pentium is going to be ample, and the number of games which will hate it but don't really want a new i5 (minimum) would be quite small I'd say. You could add about €100 for an i5-6400 and drop to an rx460/gtx1050 for similar money and someone who really knows BF1 might suggest which way would be better for that, but either way you are going to have something pretty darn solid for casual playing.

With "budget" more in mind, I'd maybe even suggest just the Pentium with an rx460/gtx1050 and an SSD here

TerrorFirmer

Digital Solitude wrote: »

The Pentium isn't really comparable tbf, the i7 will be miles and miles ahead of any i3 or i5. While the 480 is going to be faster obviously I'd still take the i7 if I were OP, there's a bigger difference between a pentium/i3 and 470/480 at 1080p.

Look at the benchmarks in the link I posted and try find an i3 running similar games with a similar GPU if you want mini, but I'd be very surprised if the numbers were comparable.

*Edit* found a eurogamer review that suggests the i3 6100 is about 80% the speed of the 6700k, so I'm just going to sit the rest of this one out

It depends on the game. On mobile at the moment so can't write a proper reply but in something like battlefield 1 the 2600 is head and shoulders above the i3-6100. Still a good processor especially for games that take advantage of all threads.

I have a 1St generation i7 PC and Even that Runs cpu heavy stuff like fallout 4 and battlefield 1 quite well. similar to 2nd gen i5 at a Guess.

And that's a processor from 2009...

_Kaiser_

So I've been doing some more reading and ebaying in the last few days and it seems for the budget I have in mind, any pre-built/OEM machine will be an earlier gen Core or Xeon base and need the investment of a newer/better video card right off or comes with a mid-range card for 1080p gaming.

But I don't think I'd get much better for €5/600 would I? Even if I built it myself?

TerrorFirmer

If you build new, €600 is a good budget. Decent case, 500w PSU, 8GB DDR4, B250 board, G4560, AMD RX470 4GB, 8GB DDR4 2400mhz, 240GB SSD comes in around €600 roughly.

In some CPU heavy games that can use multiple cores/threads effectively, the G4560 would indeed be somewhat slower than say, a 2nd gen i7 (like the i7-2600), but on the whole, it's a much newer platform, better upgrade potential and longevity, all new with warranty, etc. It would be my preferred option to be honest.

By using older OEM machines and throwing in a card though, you can save a lot on that cost albeit have a much older, outdated machine on paper (but better real world performance for the time being, but zero upgrade options). EG - PC with an i5-3570, 8GB DDR3, 500GB HD can be gotten for around €150-200 on Ebay if you shop around, add a 120GB SSD and GTX1050Ti for €200-ish, and total cost is around €350-400 for a very good 1080p games machine.

_Kaiser_

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

If you build new, €600 is a good budget. Decent case, 500w PSU, 8GB DDR4, B250 board, G4560, AMD RX470 4GB, 8GB DDR4 2400mhz, 240GB SSD comes in around €600 roughly.

In some CPU heavy games that can use multiple cores/threads effectively, the G4560 would indeed be somewhat slower than say, a 2nd gen i7 (like the i7-2600), but on the whole, it's a much newer platform, better upgrade potential and longevity, all new with warranty, etc. It would be my preferred option to be honest.

By using older OEM machines and throwing in a card though, you can save a lot on that cost albeit have a much older, outdated machine on paper (but better real world performance for the time being, but zero upgrade options). EG - PC with an i5-3570, 8GB DDR3, 500GB HD can be gotten for around €150-200 on Ebay if you shop around, add a 120GB SSD and GTX1050Ti for €200-ish, and total cost is around €350-400 for a very good 1080p games machine.

Cheers.. I was looking at this...

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Intel-I5-7500-Home-Office-Quad-Core-Multimedia-Pc-Computer-1Tb-8Gb-PUN-/142076634577

with say this...

http://www.adverts.ie/graphics-cards/evga-gtx-950-superclocked/12182292

€600ish all in but should last me a good bit longer due to the newer architecture?

Again, thanks for all the advice guys.. really is appreciated!

TerrorFirmer

Yes, you could do that, but of course you are paying a premium for assembly versus self build. But absolutely, it's well worth going for the latest tech when possible, with a mind towards the future as well as right now.

I would not pay that for a 2nd hand (or new) GTX950, the GTX1050 is close to that price brand new and newer tech, noticably faster, etc. If you're playing Battlefield 1 the i5-7500 and GTX1050 2GB would be good for 1080p medium-high settings at a good, stable framerate.

Whereas in games that are GPU dependent like Witcher 3, the G4560 and RX470 build I suggested would absolutely dominate it - but while your average/max frames would be also way, way higher in BF1 online, your minimum frames would suffer, which can impact on gameplay enjoyment.

In an ideal world the i5-7500 + RX470 is perfect match, but if you can't stretch I'd personally take the i5-7500/GTX1050 over G4560/RX470 given you've specifically mentioned BF1.

TitianGerm

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Gaming on that budget is entirely possible.

You can build a gaming rig now, better than a console (for grpahics at least) for 300 easily.

Would you really build a PC for €300?

I've been tempted to get one to play Overwatch but have no experience what so ever so haven't really looked into it.

The only other game I'd be tempted by would be Total War type games which don't lend themselves well to console.

Digital Solitude

emmetkenny wrote: »

Would you really build a PC for €300?

I've been tempted to get one to play Overwatch but have no experience what so ever so haven't really looked into it.

The only other game I'd be tempted by would be Total War type games which don't lend themselves well to console.

300 is a bit of a stretch but 400 is pretty reachable for higher than PS4 performance

TitianGerm

Digital Solitude wrote: »

300 is a bit of a stretch but 400 is pretty reachable for higher than PS4 performance

Obviously more then if you have to buy keyboard and mouse?

Digital Solitude

Yeah, maybe 420 or so all in. I'm winging prices from memory and rounding up though

_Kaiser_

Well, I got a bit more cash than expected this month (yay bonus time! ) so my budget has increased somewhat... just bought this:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/122073345503

Will swap out the SSD for a larger one I already have, but other than that I think/hope this should do me a while?

Xenoronin

Looks good. Only thing I'll add is that that PC does not come with Windows 10 installed. You'll have to download and use the trial version for now if funds are tight.

_Kaiser_

Xenoronin wrote: »

Looks good. Only thing I'll add is that that PC does not come with Windows 10 installed. You'll have to download and use the trial version for now if funds are tight.

That side I already have covered at least

Samuel T. Cogley

emmetkenny wrote: »

Would you really build a PC for €300?

I've been tempted to get one to play Overwatch but have no experience what so ever so haven't really looked into it.

The only other game I'd be tempted by would be Total War type games which don't lend themselves well to console.

You'd have to go second hand, but it's entirely possible. It's madness how cheap you can build an entry level gaming rig these days.

TitianGerm

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

You'd have to go second hand, but it's entirely possible. It's madness how cheap you can build an entry level gaming rig these days.

I was tempted by the the Steam machine on offer on Amazon recently for £300 I think.

I don't have as much time for gaming anymore but if I do get a gaming PC I'd definitely go back playing C&C type games.

Samuel T. Cogley

emmetkenny wrote: »

I was tempted by the the Steam machine on offer on Amazon recently for £300 I think.

I don't have as much time for gaming anymore but if I do get a gaming PC I'd definitely go back playing C&C type games.

Some of the RTS games on PC are amazing. The problem is they do require a relatively beefy machine. Totalwar:Warhammer is amazing. I feel a night as the Vampire Counts and a few glasses of red wine coming on!

TitianGerm

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Some of the RTS games on PC are amazing. The problem is they do require a relatively beefy machine. Totalwar:Warhammer is amazing. I feel a night as the Vampire Counts and a few glasses of red wine coming on!

It wouldn't even have to be that new. I used to love the old Age of Empires and C&C games

_Kaiser_

emmetkenny wrote: »

It wouldn't even have to be that new. I used to love the old Age of Empires and C&C games

You should check out Supreme Commander (Forged Alliance) if you haven't already I'd be the same and love that sorta game.

My new PC has already shipped so looking forward to having it next week hopefully!