Advice please on how to access a landlocked site for a house build.

Penny Dreadful

Hi all,

I've applied for planning permission to builds new house in the village where I am from in Co. Meath.
The Planning Dept of the Council has come back to me with some queries and one of those is to show that I have permission to access the site.
As it stands that site is landlocked as such and we had shown that we intended to access the site through the housing estate that locks it in on one side. This estate is under the control of the council however it seems that the road and green spaces in the estate are under ownership of the man who built and developed the estate. To further complicate things the builder is now bankrupt and there are three judgement mortgages in favour of AIB against the mortgages and builder.

The site is separated from the estate via a ditch and I only want to cross this ditch to access the site so my question is who do I approach for permission? Is it the builder through his solicitors or AIB as the creditors or can the Council take care of this seeing as they control the estate?
The estate on the other side has also been built by the same developer and it is closed off the site by a wall which would have to be broken and so would be messier. Also it is not yet under control of the Council and our architect advised that the access via the side where the ditch is would be easier and better over all.

Have any of you experienced a similar situation and if so how did you get around it?

sydthebeat

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

This estate is under the control of the council however it seems that the road and green spaces in the estate are under ownership of the man who built and developed the estate.

this doesnt make any sense.

usually its only the roads and green areas that the council will take in charge, so if they havent control of this is unlikely its taken in charge. they dont take charge of the private sites.

its a very simply question for the council to answer really.

the fact that they are asking you to prove permission for the access would tell me, at this remove, that the estate isnt taken in charge.

therefore you must get permission from the current owners, be that the developer, or the banks....

Penny Dreadful

sydthebeat wrote: »

this doesnt make any sense.

usually its only the roads and green areas that the council will take in charge, so if they havent control of this is unlikely its taken in charge. they dont take charge of the private sites.

its a very simply question for the council to answer really.

the fact that they are asking you to prove permission for the access would tell me, at this remove, that the estate isnt taken in charge.

therefore you must get permission from the current owners, be that the developer, or the banks....

Hi, thanks for getting back to me so quickly. It's a complicated one all right but the Council cut the grass and prune the trees, etc. They put up decorations for Paddy's Day etc. This would certainly indicate that they are managing/ have taken control of the estate.
They don't do anything with the ditch onto which the estates green area backs and this is between my site and the green.
So would they not have taken charge of everything? Why leave a ditch out?

sydthebeat

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Hi, thanks for getting back to me so quickly. It's a complicated one all right but the Council cut the grass and prune the trees, etc. They put up decorations for Paddy's Day etc. This would certainly indicate that they are managing/ have taken control of the estate.
They don't do anything with the ditch onto which the estates green area backs and this is between my site and the green.
So would they not have taken charge of everything? Why leave a ditch out?

are the tops of the manholes level with the tarmac surface?

Gumbo

Sounds like the original developer put in a random strip.
Very common and essentially you have to pay him to cross over this piece of land and hopefully the residents don't object.

My estate here in Dublin is maintained by the council and has been since 1996 but is only this year going through the motions of been taken in charge.

Penny Dreadful

kceire wrote: »

Sounds like the original developer put in a random strip.
Very common and essentially you have to pay him to cross over this piece of land and hopefully the residents don't object.

My estate here in Dublin is maintained by the council and has been since 1996 but is only this year going through the motions of been taken in charge.

It's common to do this? Why? Anyway if I have to pay to cross it then I have to pay him, do I approach him through his solicitors (obviously my solicitors would do the approaching) or the banks because he is bankrupt? Is he allowed to give permission if he is bankrupt?

Penny Dreadful

sydthebeat wrote: »

are the tops of the manholes level with the tarmac surface?

I have no idea, why does this matter?

Metric Tensor

In one way it's fairly simple OP but the details in your case make it quite complex - you need to show a legal right of way over any private land between you and the road:

1. The only person who can agree to this is the registered owner of the land.

2. The registered owner will need to agree to this and may just say no. Then you're f*cked.

3. Alternatively the owner will require payment and they have you over a barrel - expect to pay over the odds!

4. If the bank, NAMA or anyone else has established some sort of legal claim on the land the owner may not be in a position to allow you access it.

5. There's a possibility that the roads in the estate are in the ownership of a management company - you will need a right of way from them too - because it's all decided by committee this will be like banging your head against a wall (you need to find this out)

6. You should not really have gone this far without sorting out access first but you are where you are now .... Go to landdirect.ie and look up the areas through which you need to pass. If you pay a few Euro you can buy the folio maps and find out for certain who the owns each portion - then you approach that person(s) and hope for the best.

Metric Tensor

Actually there's much more likelihood of success on the side that has no judgement against it and is in private hands. Then you go to the developer and haggle a deal ... I don't know how many thousand he will ask for.

Assuming you strike a deal then you get him to write a letter confirming that if the planning permission is given he will give you a legal right of way to pass over his land. Your solicitors and engineer will help you prepare the maps and documents for the right of way when the time comes - but make the bargain first!

Penny Dreadful

Hi
Thanks for all the replies.
The folios show the developer owning the road, green and and ditch adjoining the plot. This is all on one folio. It's obvious now we will have to go through him to get permission based on the current folios but what does not compute is the council maintaining everything on the folio. The estate is built about 20 years. I wonder if it's at all possible to motivate the council to take charge.

We are also being told by our solicitors that it's entirely possible the folio has transferred but it just has not been recorded! What a mess!