8,000 UK drivers caught using mobile phones

CalamariFritti

In a week long campaign almost 8,000 drivers were caught for mobile phone use while driving a car. And law is going to get tougher on them. Penalty going from £100 to £200 and penalty points from 3 to 6.

I think such a crackdown is long overdue here, too, and the numbers show that it is rampant.

Link here

AndyBoBandy

I've love to see similar enforcement in Ireland.

CalamariFritti

I wouldn't want to weigh one thing up against another. No insurance is worse of course, but that doesn't mean they should turn a blind eye on mobile phone use.

GrumpyMe

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I'd rather they spent that time chasing people with no insurance.

Having watched far too much "Road Wars" style television - there is a strong correlation between those who flaunt a law and flaunting all laws - especially as laws are actively enforced. Stop 'em for the mobile - hit 'em with the no tax, NCT, insurance, no seatbelt, missing lights, bald tyres...
Wishful thinking! :rolleyes:

GrumpyMe

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I would rather be hit by somebody on a phone than somebody without insurance. If they are setting up checkpoints for catching people on phones then they can do the same for insurance.

But in the case your demise as a result of a collision - which one is most likely to have done the deed?

Tom Mann Centuria

I'm sure there is cross over between the uninsured and phone users, don't suppose they are mutually exclusive groups.

I'd hope that any driver stopped for using a phone might be asked to show his insurance, if so, you're killing two birds with one stone.

CalamariFritti

I think just because one thing is worse than another doesn't mean we shouldn't care about the other.
That's like saying until there isn't a single unresolved murder guards shouldn't be looking at break ins at all.

dudara

The amount of times I have encountered drivers on the motorway with their phones at their ears or even worse, surreptitiously reading a phone below the dash, is truly astounding. Taking your eyes off the road for more than a split record is perilous, yet I've seen drivers cast their eyes downwards for multiple seconds. Amazing that there hasn't been any major incidents yet.

Zaph

Twice in the last week or so I've seen people texting while on the M50. In both cases their driving was so slow and erratic that it looked like it was only a matter of time before they were going to have an accident. What sort of simpleton do you have to be to think that is OK to text while driving on the busiest road in the country? Or any road? Clearly they have little regard for other peoples' safety, but you'd imagine that there'd be at least a hint of a self preservation instinct that would kick in and tell them that they were being complete and utter morons.

The Backwards Man

An uninsured driver is potentially lethal, a driver on the phone is actually lethal

K.Flyer

The amount of people I see in Dublin city almost every day driving while holding their phone to their ear or eyes looking down at it is astounding.
No enforcement = No deterrent.

A few lads zipping around the place on unmarked motorbikes like this fella is what is needed.

Wheety

Yeah, it's shocking the amount of people on their phones while driving. Saw a guy driving slowly on the N4 yesterday. As I passed him he was looking down at his phone in his lap. Idiots.

Comhrá

As long as it's a paltry €60 fine +3 points, the situation will remain unchanged.
4 penalty points and a €175 fine might increase awareness a little.

The Backwards Man

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Put it this way, how many times a day do you have to take corrective action against the asshole who is on the phone as opposed to the asshole who is uninsured?

I heard some eejit the radio yesterday admitting to texting and driving as if it was just a wee bad habit, think it was that Navan eejit.

Eejit.

GerryDerpy

With that amount of drivers using phones and none of them dying, seems to be a safe thing to do.

GrumpyMe

tippman1 wrote: »

As long as it's a paltry €60 fine +3 points, the situation will remain unchanged.
4 penalty points and a €175 fine might increase awareness a little.

Point - yes I agree
Fines should be pro rata to income.

AndyBoBandy

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Balls to that, just because somebody earns less than me they get a lesser fine. No dice!

There would/should be a minimum amount certainly (say €150), but it should be allowed to be upped for someone who €150 is peanuts to them.

And if your car & phone both have bluetooth hands free technology available, it's €500

Comhrá

GerryDerpy wrote: »

With that amount of drivers using phones and none of them dying, seems to be a safe thing to do.

The thing is, we never hear the myriad reasons for fatal crashes, the one-vehicle accident striking a tree, wall etc. How many young people have been killed while texting, doing Facebook etc. while driving?

We never hear figures or inquest results for the vast majority of these mysterious fatal accidents. I suspect the phones cause a lot more fatal crashes than we hear about.

AndyBoBandy

tippman1 wrote: »

T
We never hear figures or inquest results for the vast majority of these mysterious fatal accidents. I suspect the phones cause a lot more fatal crashes than we hear about.

And surely there would be some involved in crashes, that might not even admit to looking at their phone, as unless making/receiving calls/texts, it would be hard enough to prove.

Samuel T. Cogley

The last part of that clip is instructive on why you shouldn't be using a phone even when stopped.

Anyone caught using a mobile when driving should be required to have software on their phone that deactivates it once the phone is moving faster than 10KPH. Any tampering with that software should result in the car being seized. As for insurance, no need for checkpoints; a proper ANPR network on the motorways.

Comhrá

At the end of the day there isn't any real will from the Government to tackle phone use at the wheel because it doesn't carry the emotional weight or moral outrage of drink driving or speeding.

Being caught using a phone at the wheel isn't considered socially embarrassing like being done for drink-driving or driving without insurance, hence the lack of urgency dealing with it.....I've even seen Gardai driving while using their phones so no big deal really. That's the reality of the situation. It's considered a low-priority driving offence.

AndyBoBandy

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Anyone caught using a mobile when driving should be required to have software on their phone that deactivates it once the phone is moving faster than 10KPH.

What if they are on the bus, or the train, or in a taxi, or just not driving?

ED E

Step1: Garda takes phone from offender
Step2: Garda calls VM
Step3: Garda records "This is Garda X and this number has been confiscated under the RTA of 2017"
Step4: Garda pockets the SIM for 2wks and issues FCPN.

The embarrassment will be 100x more effective than the tiny fine.

ED E

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

The last part of that clip is instructive on why you shouldn't be using a phone even when stopped.

Anyone caught using a mobile when driving should be required to have software on their phone that deactivates it once the phone is moving faster than 10KPH. Any tampering with that software should result in the car being seized. As for insurance, no need for checkpoints; a proper ANPR network on the motorways.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

What if they are on the bus, or the train, or in a taxi, or just not driving?

Exactly, that doesnt work. You cant fix this in software, you need enforcement. Make an example of the truckers that do it.

languagenerd

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I would rather be hit by somebody on a phone than somebody without insurance. If they are setting up checkpoints for catching people on phones then they can do the same for insurance.

But would the 'somebody on the phone' even have hit you if they weren't on the phone?

It's rampant these days. I think people stopped for a while, with hands-free sets etc, but smartphones and unlimited data have changed that again. People are driving around with their eyes off the roads for extended periods of time with no clue what's in front of them. They think it's fine when they're driving cause they're only "quickly checking something" or "just changing the music", but it usually means looking away from the road for far too long when you're operating heavy machinery at 100kmh. A truck driver in England crashed into and killed an entire family on a motorway recently enough because he was scrolling through music playlists on his phone trying to pick a song... But everyone thinks it couldn't happen to them. We have to stop talking about it like it's just a silly bad habit/minor thing we're all guilty of and realise how selfish and dangerous it is!

ironclaw

tippman1 wrote: »

At the end of the day there isn't any real will from the Government to tackle phone use at the wheel because it doesn't carry the emotional weight or moral outrage of drink driving or speeding.

Being caught using a phone at the wheel isn't considered socially embarrassing like being done for drink-driving or driving without insurance, hence the lack of urgency dealing with it.....I've even seen Gardai driving while using their phones so no big deal really. That's the reality of the situation. It's considered a low-priority driving offence.

Gardai are exempt from the RTA in the course of their duties. Would be pretty difficult to operate as a Garda if you had to pull over every time to use your Tetra radio (Which by in large looks identical to a mobile phone)

Its a school yard response to say 'But they can do it...', yes they can, because its an integral part of their work which usually deals with fairly pressing situations. Calling your missus to ask about the roast or follow up on a sale contact can wait. I've yet to find someone, outside of perhaps a doctor, who can give a justifiable reason as to why they need to drive and have a phone call at the same time without hands-free.

bazz26

Surely this issue can be solved by technology. Prevention should be better than cure.

AndyBoBandy

bazz26 wrote: »

Surely this issue can be solved by technology. Prevention should be better than cure.

They are working on it though its a more longer term solution

ironclaw

bazz26 wrote: »

Surely this issue can be solved by technology. Prevention should be better than cure.

Loads of problems with it though.

What if you are driving someone to a hospital and need to keep in contact with 112? Or if you are involved in an accident, and the phone doesn't unlock due to some error? What if you have permission to use a phone while driving or its part of your job?

Lots of overhead there.

They should publish a list of drivers found using their phones in a similar way they post tax evaders. Not exactly a badge of honor to be driving what is effectively a weapon when you are too busy to care for other road users. Its really selfish. If someone bumps into you on the street because they are too busy texting, its annoying and frustrating. Frankly, its rude and disrespectful. In a car, they are doing the same thing, except they could actually kill someone.

Ironically, 3G / GPRS / Edge don't work very well over 120km/h due to their technical specs, so if you don't live in a 4G location, you won't have much luck posting on facebook at higher speeds. I doubt the RSA will endorse that one though

dudara

tippman1 wrote: »

Being caught using a phone at the wheel isn't considered socially embarrassing like being done for drink-driving or driving without insurance, hence the lack of urgency dealing with it.....

It's time to make it socially embarrassing. I've gotten out of cars where the driver was constantly on their phone. I didn't feel safe and didn't want to be in the car with them.

Comhrá

ironclaw wrote: »

Gardai are exempt from the RTA in the course of their duties. Would be pretty difficult to operate as a Garda if you had to pull over every time to use your Tetra radio (Which by in large looks identical to a mobile phone)

I understand they are indeed exempt, but aren't they just as big a danger to other road-users while they drive while using their phones as any other lay person? I'm sure their attention and reaction times are no different to anyone else? Don't they have blue tooth in their Garda cars?

This situation is kind of hypocritical, the Gardai using their phones while driving.... if they're dealing with an emergency, and holding their phones - maybe driving with a bit of urgency - aren't they as much of a danger to other road-users as Joe Bloggs or anyone else?

Wibbs

I'm even dubious about hands free usage. Now maybe it's just cos of my oddball brain makeup, but I can't use one. For some reason my brain doesn't treat it like having a conversation with a passenger. I get overload and tend to drift off a bit. TBH I'd actually feel less compromised using a phone to my ear by comparison. I just switch my phone off when I get in my car. For me a part of driving is being "away from it all", even in traffic. That said I am odd that way and very rarely even have the radio on.

CrankyHaus

Last week I had a motorcycle Garda driving behind me. Motorist coming the other way was holding his phone to his ear, seemed totally oblivious to the Garda.

The Garda just sailed right past him without a care in the world.

If the law isn't enforced people are just going to ignore it, I think a huge amount already do when it comes to using mobiles.

In part I blame the manner in which so much road resourcing seems to focus exclusively on speeding and drink-driving.
Some people seem to get the impression that everything else is grand and are happy to drive dangerously (using mobiles, pulling out in front of others at junctions, swerving into others' lanes) without any significant threat of prosecution.

The Backwards Man

Hands free isn't safe either, far from it. I have to use it for work, but you're still taking away some of your concentration from a task that should have your whole concentration.

And as well all know, the concentration a lot of drivers display leaves a lot to be desired in the first place.

ironclaw

tippman1 wrote: »

I understand they are indeed exempt, but aren't they just as big a danger to other road-users while they drive while using their phones as any other lay person? I'm sure their attention and reaction times are no different to anyone else? Don't they have blue tooth in their Garda cars?

This situation is kind of hypocritical, the Gardai using their phones while driving.... if they're dealing with an emergency, and holding their phones - maybe driving with a bit of urgency - aren't they as much of a danger to other road-users as Joe Bloggs or anyone else?

Bluetooth poses a security risk and breaks the secure chain between Tetra and the overall system. Likewise, the Bluetooth standard doesn't allow for multiple pairs, so if 100 Tetra / Mobile phones pass through the car, the set up time pair them is prohibitive and ultimately fruitless.

I really don't see the argument as to why Gardai or any trained personnel should not be allowed use their phone / radio. Its an integral part of their job, they'll hone a skill in a controlled environment and will often have an equally qualified member to their left hand side whilst driving. The same can't be said for Salesman Sam who's trying to close a deal holding a notepad in one hand and the phone to his ear. Its not a comparable scenario and never will be. Once again I'll pose the question, what normal lay person needs the ability to use their phone to their ear while driving?

Samuel T. Cogley

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

What if they are on the bus, or the train, or in a taxi, or just not driving?

Than don't get caught in your car. That comaprison is a bit like saying, what if drunk drivers need to drive for work? Same answer. Tough.

AndyBoBandy

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Than don't get caught in your car. That comaprison is a bit like saying, what if drunk drivers need to drive for work? Same answer. Tough.

but someone drunk can still get on a bus, or into a taxi, should they now not be allowed such a luxury post successful DD prosecution?

amcalester

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Than don't get caught in your car. That comaprison is a bit like saying, what if drunk drivers need to drive for work? Same answer. Tough.

But drunk drivers aren't banned from using public transport?

Samuel T. Cogley

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

but someone drunk can still get on a bus, or into a taxi, should they now not be allowed such a luxury post successful DD prosecution?

amcalester wrote: »

But drunk drivers aren't banned from using public transport?

Is using a mobile phone required for the use of public transport?

amcalester

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Is using a mobile phone required for the use of public transport?

No, of course not.

But are you suggesting that anyone found guilty of using a mobile phone while driving should have software installed on their phone to stop using it on all modes of transport above a certain speed?

Samuel T. Cogley

amcalester wrote: »

No, of course not.

But are you suggesting that anyone found guilty of using a mobile phone while driving should have software installed on their phone to stop using it on all modes of transport above a certain speed?

I'm suggesting a restriction on the use of a mobile device, similar to the restriction placed on drunk drivers over the use of a vehicle. Yes there are additional restrictions which flow from the punishment as there are with all santions imposed on people.

While you might not agree with in, which is fair enough - it's not a difficult concept to grasp is it?

amcalester

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

I'm suggesting a restriction on the use of a mobile device, similar to the restriction placed on drunk drivers over the use of a vehicle. Yes there are additional restrictions which flow from the punishment as there are with all santions imposed on people.

While you might not agree with in, which is fair enough - it's not a difficult concept to grasp is it?

The punishment isn't but the stupidity of the suggestion in the first place is difficult to grasp.

Samuel T. Cogley

amcalester wrote: »

The punishment isn't but the stupidity of the suggestion in the first place is difficult to grasp.

It's entirely possible to do, the additional restrictions are minor and it helps increase road safety without any ancillary issues of accusation of policing for profit. It seems the height of stupidity not to consider it as an option, considering we'll never have the enforcement in Ireland on any issue let alone this one.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, I'm glad you've now managed to puzzle it all out.

amcalester

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

It's entirely possible to do, the additional restrictions are minor and it helps increase road safety without any ancillary issues of accusation of policing for profit. It seems the height of stupidity not to consider it as an option, considering we'll never have the enforcement in Ireland on any issue let alone this one.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, I'm glad you've now managed to puzzle it all out.

Making it so people can't use their phones on public transport (or any other mode of transport above a certain speed limit) is 100% punitive and does nothing to increase road safety.

What about joggers or cyclists using their phones for GPS?

Or simply receiving a call while on public transport, is it just the mobile data that is blocked or calls too?

Samuel T. Cogley

amcalester wrote: »

Making it so people can't use their phones on public transport (or any other mode of transport above a certain speed limit) is 100% punitive and does nothing to increase road safety.

What about joggers or cyclists using their phones for GPS?

Or simply receiving a call while on public transport, is it just the mobile data that is blocked or calls too?

You said you understood but didn't agree, now you don't understand again?

All of your concerns are addressed by not using your mobile while driving. Your logic would seem to suggest that we can't fine people as it may mean they can afford to maintain their mobile and therefore can't do the above.

coolbeans

Has anyone noticed the telltale wobble on the motorway or N road? It's usually goes thus,
; approach from behind as the tool in front wobbles between lanes. As one passes he's on the phone but this time he's looking down at his crotch, all the while traveling at 120kph. Idiocy at its finest. Fine the **** out of them I say. The consequences are too serious to even contemplate. And for what, cos some dope makes some attention grabbing comment on bookface that had to be replied to? The world is ****ed.

amcalester

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

You said you understood but didn't agree, now you don't understand again?

All of your concerns are addressed by not using your mobile while driving. Your logic would seem to suggest that we can't fine people as it may mean they can afford to maintain their mobile and therefore can't do the above.

I understand the suggestion that you are in favour of. What I don't understand is how this will be implanted and how it will increase road safety.

I suspect you haven't really thought either of those points through which is why you are not answering my questions.

We've also hijacked this thread so I won't be replying again.

Samuel T. Cogley

amcalester wrote: »

I understand the suggestion that you are in favour of. What I don't understand is how this will be implanted and how it will increase road safety.

I suspect you haven't really thought either of those points through which is why you are not answering my questions.

We've also hijacked this thread so I won't be replying again.

To be honest I didn't need to think them through, the ground work has already been done and law suits failed on the back of patents in existence. However it's not really complicated to think through and come to the conclusions you already did a few posts back that you don't agree with the additional sanctions, I do. It's not complicated we just disagree, which is fair enough, this digging into the same points over and over trying to get a different answer does no one any good, you're right there at least.

K.Flyer

Ok, not really a scientific study, but an interesting gauge.
Driving at 4.30pm today from Harolds Cross Bridge Dublin 6 to Baggot St Bridge Dublin 2 approx 2 km along the canal.
Traffic coming in the opposite direction getting slow but still moving enough to see the drivers.
Counted 19 drivers clearly glancing down at their phones while moving.
Counted 5 drivers clearly holding handset to their ears.
Not sure what percentage it would work out at, but still interesting when you count them up over a short distance and short time frame.