Viewing a property with attic conversion... Questions.

R11

Hoping to view a second hand 3 bed bungalow, with attic conversion utilized as 2 bed rooms and a WC. On daft.ie the estate agent has 2 ads for this house, 1 listed as a 3 bed, the other listed as 5 bed. It's also been on the market for 18 months and price has dropped twice in that time. I'm thinking it's too good to be true and have a feeling there might be an issue with planning permission or compliancy with the attic conversion.
So, what questions do I need to ask estate agent? Is he obliged to tell me about planning issues?

Samuel T. Cogley

When I was looking there were a number of houses like this. It wouldn't put me off if the price was commensurate with a three bed and that's what I was looking for. I just wouldn't use the rooms upstairs as bedrooms.

R11

We haven't seen it yet so unsure what to ask EA. It's already got built in wardrobes so current owner using it as bedrooms. Just wondering about possible planning issues. It's a nice house that interests us, would require a little updating though.There's 3 velux windows at the back of it also.

Samuel T. Cogley

Ask about the planning, you should be able to get a reference and look it up online. You can probably assume there isn't planning or the requisite fire doors etc. for it to be a proper conversion, such is the nature of these things. I'd use them as a nice en suite study, maybe sleep up there myself on occasion making sure I was bloody sure of my escape route. Even if the planning is 100% I'm not sure I'd put kids or guests up there.

R11

There's a WC but no en suite. I'd doubt there's proper fire regs as there's only 1 stairs up. We could use 1 of them as another TV room and use the other as occasional spare bedroom for guests. We'll view it first and ask questions.
Another thing, if we were to but it, for insurance reasons, would it be a 3 or 5 bed? Obviously 5 bed would be higher premium but would we have to tell them about the extra 2 rooms?

Samuel T. Cogley

I'm not sure why a five bed would be a higher premium, generally rebuild cost is the deciding factor. Also if the planning isn't there it's not a five bed, it's a three bed.

Gumbo

It's a bungalow so the attic conversion only creates a 2 stores house. It doesn't have as strict fire regulations as a 3 storey house would have.

Does it have dormers or roof light?
Ask if planningbwas required and if not, is there a certificate of exemption available. Has the structure been signed off also.

After that, it's just the normal stuff you'd ask on any other house viewing.

Gumbo

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Ask about the planning, you should be able to get a reference and look it up online. You can probably assume there isn't planning or the requisite fire doors etc. for it to be a proper conversion, such is the nature of these things. I'd use them as a nice en suite study, maybe sleep up there myself on occasion making sure I was bloody sure of my escape route. Even if the planning is 100% I'm not sure I'd put kids or guests up there.

No Fire doors required for a bungalow converting the attic (1st floor).
No planning required either if the the Velux are to the rear and there's no dormer windows added.

R11

kceire wrote: »

Does it have dormers or roof light?

Has 3 velux windows at the back. Hope to view it this week so I'll ask those questions, thanks

Samuel T. Cogley

I certainly defer to anyone with actual knowledge of this, my musings come only from purchasing my own house. Certainly makes sense that a 2nd story would not be as strict as a third and thank you for the correction, especially as the in laws are over looking at bungalows!

Gumbo

R11 wrote: »

Has 3 velux windows at the back. Hope to view it this week so I'll ask those questions, thanks

Sounds exempt but your survey should still be requesting certificates of exemption from the vendor which they will get from a professional.

Thestones

We sold a house with an attic conversion but it wasn't a bungalow so I'm sure there are different rules. What we encountered from sellers point of view, we couldn't list it as a 3 bed house ( it was a 2 bed with attic conversion). We were using it as a bedroom ourselves so it was furnished that way but no ensuite up there and EA was very clear with viewers that it wasn't an official bedroom. We went sale agreed and buyers surveyor tore it apart saying didn't comply with fire regs etc and sale fell through, we had an absolute nightmare worried would this happen every time we had a buyer, we had a certificate of compliance but surveyor didn't care. Then we got another buyer and their surveyor had no issue at all with attic and we weren't even asked for cert of compliance but were asked for cert of exemption which we then had to get, that sale all went through fine. Just goes to show you the different opinions you can get! Anyway you should ask about those certs if viewing.

R11

Excuse my ignorance but what's a certificate of exemption? Exempt from what exactly?
Also do bedrooms in bungalow attics not have to have certain height requirements? Thought I read that 50% of floor space has to be above 2.4m? Or something like that....

Gumbo

R11 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but what's a certificate of exemption? Exempt from what exactly?
Also do bedrooms in bungalow attics not have to have certain height requirements? Thought I read that 50% of floor space has to be above 2.4m? Or something like that....

Any alterations made to the house will either have planning or not require planning.

If it has planning - vendor provides a cert to state that it complies with the granted planning permission.

If it's exempt from planning - vendor provides a cert to state that it is exempted development.

Habitable space in a loft situation is defined by part F of the building regulations which says that a suggested height of 2.4m is looked for but it's not a rule. It's suggested. Then also there's a calculation of the area at 2.4m over the area at 1.5m.

R11

kceire wrote: »

Habitable space in a loft situation is defined by part F of the building regulations which says that a suggested height of 2.4m is looked for but it's not a rule. It's suggested. Then also there's a calculation of the area at 2.4m over the area at 1.5m.

Thanks, you seem very knowledgeable on this.
So should I look for those calculations? And if they were below regulation, would that pose a problem? Obviously, space wise they would! But legally, going forward, could that hold up a sale?

Gumbo

R11 wrote: »

Thanks, you seem very knowledgeable on this.
So should I look for those calculations? And if they were below regulation, would that pose a problem? Obviously, space wise they would! But legally, going forward, could that hold up a sale?

Depends. A vendor won't provide these calculations, and either would i if I was selling. It's sold as seen.

I would request the exemption and building regulation certs though.

R11

Ok thanks, will do.

R11

Quick update. Haven't viewed this property yet but I emailed the EA who said "it's an unauthorized conversion, not in compliance with planning regs". Said its being sold as a 3 bed bungalow.
So what should we do now? View it or ask if there's an exemption?

Gumbo

R11 wrote: »

Quick update. Haven't viewed this property yet but I emailed the EA who said "it's an unauthorized conversion, not in compliance with planning regs". Said its being sold as a 3 bed bungalow.
So what should we do now? View it or ask if there's an exemption?

Ask, in what way is it unauthorised from a planning perspective?
Attic conversions are exempt.
He probably means it doesn't comply building regulations so it's a 3 bed with easily accessible attic storage space.

R11

Yes, it's being advertised as a 3 bed with attic conversion utilized as 2 extra bedrooms and WC.
There was another bungalow we were going to look at but it's now off the market and there's a sign in the garden applying for planning permission to retain attic conversion. How come some bungalows are Exempt and others are not?

muffler

R11 wrote: »

Yes, it's being advertised as a 3 bed with attic conversion utilized as 2 extra bedrooms and WC.
There was another bungalow we were going to look at but it's now off the market and there's a sign in the garden applying for planning permission to retain attic conversion. How come some bungalows are Exempt and others are not?

Several factors can come into play but mostly involving windows. If there are dormer or velux windows on the front part of the roof or gable walls or even if there are more than 3 velux to the rear or indeed a combination of any of these then planning permission is required.

Sometimes people voluntarily apply for permission just to cover all bases and not have any hiccups should they go to sell in the future. Sometimes people are given bad advice and end up applying for permission when there is no need to do so.

R11

Ok,thanks for that. Not sure if we'll go view the one thats not compliant. If we were to buy it,we were going to have ourselves and the 2 kids sleeping in the attic conversion,which has 2 bedrooms with fitted wardrobes. Maybe thats not a good idea from a safety perspective?

muffler

R11 wrote: »

Ok,thanks for that. Not sure if we'll go view the one thats not compliant. If we were to buy it,we were going to have ourselves and the 2 kids sleeping in the attic conversion,which has 2 bedrooms with fitted wardrobes. Maybe thats not a good idea from a safety perspective?

You are definitely right in expressing a concern as to the safety of using the rooms. However if you got a local surveyor/technician/engineer etc to have a look and advise of any potential dangers then you would sleep easier

In essence if any remedial works were necessary you would have to factor the cost of these into the overall price or if the conversion was good then it's happy days!

Gumbo

R11 wrote: »

Ok,thanks for that. Not sure if we'll go view the one thats not compliant. If we were to buy it,we were going to have ourselves and the 2 kids sleeping in the attic conversion,which has 2 bedrooms with fitted wardrobes. Maybe thats not a good idea from a safety perspective?

What are the technical differences between the one that is applying for retention and the one tha isint? They could both be as unsafe as each other.

Can you post a link to the houses for sale or if you want to PM it?