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Business Closed - Entitled to Social Welfare?

  • 18-01-2017 7:41pm
    #1
    tibor_imo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭


    Hi,

    Hoping this is in the right place and someone can shed some light on this situation for me. Should be pretty straightforward!

    Permanently employed in a company which closed for 2 weeks in the new year. I was available to work during this time, however obviously could not.

    I did not have any annual leave over this period.

    Would I have been entitled to claim social welfare over this time? Or, for that matter, any other compensation from my employer.

    Just realising now (shortsighted somewhat) that my January pay cheque is only going to be for 2 weeks.

    Thanks in advance


Comments

  • #2
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Are you still working there?

    And why did the business close for two weeks?


  • #3
    tibor_imo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭tibor_imo


    Yes, still working there.

    Small retail that closed after the busy Christmas for 'holidays'.


  • #4
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    tibor_imo wrote: »
    Yes, still working there.

    Small retail that closed after the busy Christmas for 'holidays'.

    So do you not get holiday pay then?


  • #5
    tibor_imo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭tibor_imo


    I get 20 days accrued leave for the year, none of which I 'took' during this time.


  • #6
    tibor_imo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭tibor_imo


    Case of tough S***?


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  • #7
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    tibor_imo wrote: »
    I get 20 days accrued leave for the year, none of which I 'took' during this time.

    How far in advance did you know the shop would be closing?


  • #8
    tibor_imo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭tibor_imo


    I think it was mid November we got confirmation. Appreciate the input.


  • #9
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    It's quite likely that some of your accrued holidays will be used against the two weeks closure and you will get holiday pay.

    I used work in a place that closed over Christmas and we had to take the days as holidays out of our holiday allowance and got paid holiday pay. We had to make sure we had the days left at the end of the year.

    It may be you just weren't told this, I'd ask if that was the case.


  • #10
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,719 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    tibor_imo wrote: »
    I get 20 days accrued leave for the year, none of which I 'took' during this time.

    In what way do you understand you "took" no holidays.

    The company closed for "holidays" and you didn't work. You were on holidays, you definitely "took" holidays.


  • #11
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    _Brian wrote: »
    In what way do you understand you "took" no holidays.

    The company closed for "holidays" and you didn't work. You were on holidays, you definitely "took" holidays.

    It means he doesn't want to use up two weeks of his annual leave in January so he is taking unpaid leave so that he can use the 20 days later.


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  • #12
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,292 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I would be very surprised if you were allowed to not take your leave at that time.

    Most places won't allow unpaid leave while you have an outstanding balance of accrued leave.


    You might have been eligible for welfare if they gave you a letter saying you were on a short-term layoff. But I doubt they'd have done that.


  • #13
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,719 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    davo10 wrote: »
    It means he doesn't want to use up two weeks of his annual leave in January so he is taking unpaid leave so that he can use the 20 days later.

    In this situation "want" probably means nothing. The employer is entitled to force holidays on everyone and close the business as suits the business. It's really common practice.
    UnpId leave is leave, op couldn't claim SW when on unpaid leave.

    I think OP misunderstood or is trying to evade using annual leave when the company closed for holidays.


  • #14
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I would be very surprised if you were allowed to not take your leave at that time.

    Most places won't allow unpaid leave while you have an outstanding balance of accrued leave.


    You might have been eligible for welfare if they gave you a letter saying you were on a short-term layoff. But I doubt they'd have done that.

    Look at it another way, if the business pays an employee for 2 weeks off in the second and third week of January and they don't turn up for work when it reopens, the business has zero chance of recovering payment for leave which hasn't even been accrued.

    I think it would be a very tough call to force employees to take two weeks of their leave in the first month of the year.


  • #15
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    _Brian wrote: »
    In this situation "want" probably means nothing. The employer is entitled to force holidays on everyone and close the business as suits the business. It's really common practice.
    UnpId leave is leave, op couldn't claim SW when on unpaid leave.

    I think OP misunderstood or is trying to evade using annual leave when the company closed for holidays.

    Can an employer force an employee to take annual leave they haven't even accrued yet?


  • #16
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    davo10 wrote: »
    Can an employer force an employee to take annual leave they haven't even accrued yet?

    No but the op posted that they have the leave accrued?


  • #17
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Stheno wrote: »
    No but the op posted that they have the leave accrued?

    I'm not sure but I think he means he gets 20 days accrued leave for the year. If he was carrying so over from last year, I'd say they definitely would make him take it while business closed.


  • #18
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    davo10 wrote: »
    I'm not sure but I think he means he gets 20 days accrued leave for the year. If he was carrying so over from last year, I'd say they definitely would make him take it while business closed.

    Ah I read it that he/she has twenty days outstanding alright :)


  • #19
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,292 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    davo10 wrote: »
    Look at it another way, if the business pays an employee for 2 weeks off in the second and third week of January and they don't turn up for work when it reopens, the business has zero chance of recovering payment for leave which hasn't even been accrued.

    I think it would be a very tough call to force employees to take two weeks of their leave in the first month of the year.

    We have no idea when their leave year runs though: some businesses end it in March because of issues like this


  • #20
    tibor_imo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭tibor_imo


    davo10 wrote: »
    I'm not sure but I think he means he gets 20 days accrued leave for the year. If he was carrying so over from last year, I'd say they definitely would make him take it while business closed.

    Yes Davo, this. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

    My leave is accrued over the course of the year (ends Dec 31st) and we can't carry days over so when the business was closed I didn't have any leave to take.

    *If* it was awarded in full at the start of the year (Jan 1st) and I was forced to take leave I'm down to 10 days for the rest of the year with a 2 week January holiday when my OH, friends, family are all back to work. So, in this hypothetical I would prefer not to use it if at all possible.

    I'm getting the impression that I'm stuck between a rock and hard place and just have to suck it up as the nature of the business though.


  • #21
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,719 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    tibor_imo wrote: »
    Yes Davo, this. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

    My leave is accrued over the course of the year (ends Dec 31st) and we can't carry days over so when the business was closed I didn't have any leave to take.

    *If* it was awarded in full at the start of the year (Jan 1st) and I was forced to take leave I'm down to 10 days for the rest of the year with a 2 week January holiday when my OH, friends, family are all back to work. So, in this hypothetical I would prefer not to use it if at all possible.

    I'm getting the impression that I'm stuck between a rock and hard place and just have to suck it up as the nature of the business though.

    Have you spoken to your employer about this at all ???
    When you were informed you would be off for two weeks did you think to question why or would you be paid.

    I find it odd that you would just accept the time off and then afterwards start saying you didn't take holidays.

    I'd see it as similar to many factories that insist all employees take two weeks annual leave first two weeks in August, they have no say in this, it's simply business closes for two weeks holidays and that's that.

    My only advice is have a more open line of communication with your employer, don't be afraid to ask stuff, it doesn't have to be on a confrontational or troublesome manner.


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  • #22
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    If f you consider that an employer has the right to require that holiday leave be taken when the company is closed, giving adequate notice of course, it really is in the ops best interest to take unpaid leave. I personally would not like to have to take 10 days holidays in January and only have 10 days remaining for the other 11 months. Sometimes you have to see the wood for the trees.


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