Chartership relevant experience

CIP4

Hi all,

I only finished college in May 2016 did Process and Chemical engineering so I know I am a long way of being chartered but we had a bit of a presentation of the route to chartership in work and it was kind of showing 4-6 years of experience and that you needed to show you were competent in 5 core areas for IEI and IChemE. I would probably go the IChemE route.

However my issue so I currently hold a graduate role and have been based in production and that's where my interest has always been and I kind of always seen myself staying production. Whereas in the same company most engineers go to continuous improvent and project engineering department. Now production is ultimately keeping the plant going while being involved to an extent in continuous improvement projects and implementing small projects but anything big goes to the projects department obviously.

Ultimately my question is that is experience in production considered as proper engineering experience. In other words if I was 5 years in production with we will say a shift manager role and then process manager role as experience and I went to apply for chartership with most likely IChemE would I have a decent chance of getting it or would it be a case that you have to work as a project engineer for x amount of years before they would even consider you ?

Johnnyhpipe

Hi,

I wouldn't worry about it at this early stage of your career. In reality you won't stay in this role despit what you may think now. Things, money, career will progress and you should embrace those opportunities.

However, if your question is - should these opportunities arise in the future and you not take them for one reason or another which results in you doing a "graduate" role of some form for 5 years or more - then yes, I suspect that you will have difficulty when it comes to CEng.

I'm structural, not chemical, but have been through the process with EI and Istructe and have always had to demonstrate how I have progressed. The old rule for a chartered engineer was that once chartered you should be capable of running your own practice. If you stay doing what you're doing then this will not be the case.. this isn't a strict rule of course, but its what the older guys will be measuring you by when it comes to your application/interview.

Hope thats of some help. But as I say - dont worry for now!

CIP4

@Johnnyhpipe thanks for your response. I think you may have picked me up slightly wrong I may have phrased it badly but I didn't mean that I would stay in a graduate role. I am currently in a graduate production role now but over the next few year would intend on progressing to management but within the production department. Different companies have different names but for us them positions would be production shift manager then process manager.

The plant I am in itself offers good exposure in the fact it's a large processing plant which deals with liquids, powders etc and has a huge range of equipment including pumps, heat exchangers, dryers, evaporators, membrane plants etc etc etc. So my only worry is that would staying in a production role be an issue as opposed to going project engineering/engineering department route. But I will certainly be progressing and definitely won't stay as a graduate for 5 years.

CIP4

This page shows some of the common job titles from people who have become chartered through IChemE and it does show Production Manager and operations supervisor which is what I would be so it is possible at least.

http://www.getchartered.org/about/who.aspx

Johnnyhpipe

Hi,

Apologies - I picked you up wrong. Have you read the CEng competencies on the EI website? Do you think that you could comprehensively cover these over a 5 year period in that role?

CIP4

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

Hi,

Apologies - I picked you up wrong. Have you read the CEng competencies on the EI website? Do you think that you could comprehensively cover these over a 5 year period in that role?

No I haven't read them yet but do tend on researching up on this as, as you have said I have time on my side. I just picked the 5 years kind of out of the sky if it took 6 or 7 years that would be fine I know it's a long road. It's more just to see if I could ever get to chartership with just production experience. Thanks for your help.

bit of a bogey

Hi CIP4,

I cant see you having any problems achieving chartership in production. It is a valid engineering field and you will be judged by the same standards as any other candidate. Provided you continue to progress your career with continued professional development, show competence and application of engineering knowledge and demonstrate effective leadership and decision making over the next 4 years, you'll be fine. I wouldn't worry about it.

CIP4

CIP4 wrote: »

...............

Ultimately my question is that is experience in production considered as proper engineering experience. In other words if I was 5 years in production with we will say a shift manager role and then process manager role as experience and I went to apply for chartership with most likely IChemE would I have a decent chance of getting it or would it be a case that you have to work as a project engineer for x amount of years before they would even consider you ?

Depends on the role.
You could be graduate in a production operator role or a engineer supporting production. If your peers are not qualified and don't need to be to perform their (ie your) role than the odds are you are an operator with an engineering degree.

Shift manager role isn't engineering experience.

Many people get chartered with dubious experience though.

CIP4

Augeo wrote: »

Depends on the role.
You could be graduate in a production operator role or a engineer supporting production. If your peers are not qualified and don't need to be to perform their (ie your) role than the odds are you are an operator with an engineering degree.

Shift manager role isn't engineering experience.

Many people get chartered with dubious experience though.

I am not an operator nor will I ever be as that would be a complete different route. But once I complete my graduate programme production shift manager would be a likely first permanent role. Obviously that's a broad term which can mean different jobs in different places.

In the company I am in it would mean dealing with the day to day running of the plant and process, huge amount of people management as you would be a lot of operators like manager, then you would be expected to partake in a lot of continuous improvement projects which can get quite technical. Heavy involvement with the maintenance team. Then you would have some small part to play in capex projects end of things.

There is older guys there without degrees working as shift managers but now you would have to have an engineering degree to get such a job. So you are probably right that if you stayed as a shift manager for 5 years you would struggle to get chartered but chances are I will do other roles relistically. The more I think about it the more I think getting chartered is not the be all and end all but it would be nice to know I could. I know it would be a much bigger thing if you were a civil or structural engineer that needed to be chartered to get a decent job. Where as as a chemical engineer you can get jobs that pay very well without being chartered.

Having a meeting with IChemE next month with a few other grads so that will be good I will talk to them about it.

CIP4

CIP4 wrote: »

......
There is older guys there without degrees working as shift managers but now you would have to have an engineering degree to get such a job.





So you are probably right that if you stayed as a shift manager for 5 years you would struggle to get chartered but chances are I will do other roles relistically. The more I think about it the more I think getting chartered is not the be all and end all but it would be nice to know I could. I know it would be a much bigger thing if you were a civil or structural engineer that needed to be chartered to get a decent job. Where as as a chemical engineer you can get jobs that pay very well without being chartered.

Having a meeting with IChemE next month with a few other grads so that will be good I will talk to them about it.

If the older lads aren't engineer qualified & the role has a huge amount of people management than its not engineering IMO.

If course shift managers partake in everything as essentially production dictate ( ) what the business needs.

You are 100% correct regarding charter ship not being the be all and end all in your end of things.

But you'd partake in enough projects to effectively get chartered IMO if you were "creative" in how you presented it.

Once you get to shift manager level you might find it difficult to get an actual engineer position outside if the company you are in without taking a pay cut. I say might of course but if you were hiring for an engineer and you got a CV with 5 years eng exp and a CV with grad eng & a few years shift manager .... you know yourself.

But you'd be possibly more likely to get an eng team lead role as you'd have the people management exp.

Internally in your company there'd more than likely be opportunities to move about too so if I was you I'd not worry about the charter thing and do as you please.... if you want to be in production & reckon it's for you a management course might be worthwhile.

CIP4

I am only 22 anyway so the way I see it there is loads of time and I mean chances are I will spend a few years as a shift manager and then move role and still only be around the 25 mark. We will see how it goes if I decided it was something I really wanted to do I could easily get involved in more projects and built up engineering experience.

The company I am with sends us on endless amounts of courses varying between technical, management, H+S etc and apparently IChemE will recognise a lot of them whereas Eng Ireland are more fussy on what constitutes CPD. As you say it's partly about what experience you have and partly what way you 'present' the experience you have.

Thanks to everyone for the response some great info on here.